Combat AI

[darko82]

Overall I find idea of affecting developers through forums quite weak. It may be possible to ruin some indie game where actual developers are on forums, but Firaxis have enough PR wall to protect their developers from both praises and reprehensions.

No, with weak/broken game, NO PR can save it. Actually, every brand or franchise can fall. And the weak AI that I have no respect for can destroy everything. Many features of the game become useless and not immersive, not to mention "unrealistic".

 

[Magil]

I don't think bad AI will ruin the game from a business perspective--it certainly didn't ruin Civ V. Doesn't mean I can't want more out of it. And we know the developers do read these forums

 

[darko82]

I don't think bad AI will ruin the game from a business perspective--it certainly didn't ruin Civ V. Doesn't mean I can't want more out of it. And we know the developers do read these forums

In the long term, yes it can because people's expectations as far as gaming is concerned are higher year by year. Standards get higher. If modders can make those standards better, why not Firaxis?

 

[Magil]

In the long term, yes it can because people's expectations as far as gaming is concerned are higher year by year. Standards get higher. If modders can make those standards better, why not Firaxis?

This is probably going to sound really condescending, but most people who buy Civilization probably don't play at a high enough level of skill to realize just how inept the AI is. They're just happy to play at Chieftain and "outsmart" the AI whenever it gets uppity.

 

[darko82]

This is probably going to sound really condescending, but most people who buy Civilization probably don't play at a high enough level of skill to realize just how inept the AI is. They're just happy to play at Chieftain and "outsmart" the AI whenever it gets uppity.

OMG, if so, I am coming back to Civ 1. To fight that crazy Stalin.

 

[stealth_nsk]

No, with weak/broken game, NO PR can save it. Actually, every brand or franchise can fall. And the weak AI that I have no respect for can destroy everything. Many features of the game become useless and not immersive, not to mention "unrealistic".

I wasn't speaking about PR saving a game. I mean Firaxis don't have actual developers posting on forums, so we can't ruing their work by praising or pressing.

 

[Gamewizard]

Challenging tactical AI does not sell copies of the game. From a business perspective, it should be low priority, especially when you know someone down the line will improve it for free.

Not defending the practice, just talking reality.

 

[qwerty25]

Challenging tactical AI does not sell copies of the game. From a business perspective, it should be low priority, especially when you know someone down the line will improve it for free.

Not defending the practice, just talking reality.

Ehhhh.... everyone hated beyond earth and the reviews hurt sales.
Now combat wasn't everything, but a large part of why beyond earth sucked was because of the lack of combat balance.

I do think tactical AI is a large concern for them. Whether or not they can make/fix a good one by October is another question.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Challenging tactical AI does not sell copies of the game. From a business perspective, it should be low priority, especially when you know someone down the line will improve it for free.

Challenging AI is part of fun of the game. Fun of the game is what makes sales. The problem is what "challenging" AI is not necessary what all players assume. For example, AI with huge bonuses for production could be more challenging than AI with smart algorithms.

 

[apocalypse105]

I dont know where to post so i pust it here if a trade route gets plundered will the road be removed over time? Or if you declare war and the trade route goes away.

Seems a bit silly that you just have to send a trade route for military purpose should be remove the road like in rise of nations

 

[Wolle68]

I dont know where to post so i pust it here if a trade route gets plundered will the road be removed over time? Or if you declare war and the trade route goes away.

Seems a bit silly that you just have to send a trade route for military purpose should be remove the road like in rise of nations

The road stays after this declaration of war: https://youtu.be/JPCbEkCbUr4?t=12m15s

Note that the AI uses the road to attack.

I hope this time around they give slight combat bonuses as difficulty increases. I think overall it is a better AI bonus than just pure hammer/production bonuses, since that only leads to carpet of doom along with unintentional side effects (building certain improvements/wonders ridiculously fast).

Combat bonuses won't affect AI vs. AI (they both will have them so it equals out), but it would give a higher chance to actually trade units with a human player. As opposed to the human player just killing unit after unit without losing anything, and wading through huge carpet of doom trash AI armies.

I would hate for the AI to get a hidden bonus in combat, so that you can never understand how combat resolves. OTOH, I wouldn't mind if the AI units got an experience bonus and could field units with more promotions. Especially so, now that the promotion level is shown on the unit. I imagine that would also be pretty easy to mod.

 

[Mustakrakish]

It's like V vanilla and BE pre-release again. People seeing what they get with their own eyes and yet still are trying to be overly positive and expecting a miracle
The game seems to be awfully unfinished for a build that is 4 months away from release. Combat AI sucks? AI in general sucks, it does nothing, it's absolutely senile. Whoopsie-daisy, look, it built a wonder! Whoo!

 

[gfeier]

We haven't actually seen the combat AI for the game yet. The build used in the videos that came out a few days ago is about six weeks old by now. That gives Firaxis almost four months to improve the AI before the game goes gold. I hope and expect that they will.

 

[footslogger]

I very much agree with the general drift of comments that the combat AI is very weak and that it is odd that Firaxis don't seem to be devoting much effort to improving it (like benefitting from the Civ 5 combat mods). Can they not see how it makes or breaks the game for many of us? Anyway, I drew a little encouragement (not much!) from the following sentence in Michael Passingham's otherwise glowing review at Trusted Reviews: 'I didn't spend a huge amount of time waging war in my session, mostly because the AI wasn't up to the task of fighting back properly in this early build.' The confident way that's worded suggests to me that he got that info from a dev who assured him that it would be better by release. Could just have been mere flannel from the dev, of course, but we can only hope for the best.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/civilization-6-review

 

[Magil]

We haven't actually seen the combat AI for the game yet. The build used in the videos that came out a few days ago is about six weeks old by now. That gives Firaxis almost four months to improve the AI before the game goes gold. I hope and expect that they will.

If I had a nickel for every time I saw a flaw in a video game in a pre-Alpha build, and everyone told me not to worry about it because "It's an old build! It'll be fixed for release!" ...and then it was still there in the release build...

I'd be more optimistic, but there is the niggling fact that Firaxis never managed to fix the tactical AI in Civilization V. Kinda colors my opinion, you know?

 

[gfeier]

I don't expect a gigantic improvement, this is Civ, after all. There are two ways to make the AI tougher. One is to improve its tactical ability, but that's hard and I'm hoping for a small improvement there. The other is to give the AI units some sort of advantage, and I think this is very possible.

 

[Magil]

I don't expect a gigantic improvement, this is Civ, after all. There are two ways to make the AI tougher. One is to improve its tactical ability, but that's hard and I'm hoping for a small improvement there.

The problem is, modders have already proven you wrong. Mods have improved the tactical AI (without giving them bonuses) in V by a fair amount. It's still not up to competing with a semi-skilled human on a level playing field, but it's miles ahead of unmodded AI.

Once one discovers that it's actually not impossible or unreasonable to adjust the combat AI, one knows Firaxis has no excuse.

 

[stiiknafuulia]

To use an analogy, having bad AI (or even just combat AI) in the release build is akin to building the best race-car possible, with a well-oiled engine and aerodynamics that work to perfection... And then to give that vehicle old worn-out tractor wheels to ensure that none of your delicate, pain-staking work actually matters.

Please, please, please, please, please, please, please (yes, all 7 are needed), Firaxis -- if you won't improve the AI, then at least open it up to modders from the very start as much as possible. The bad AI of Civ V effectively ruined the game for me (the Vox Populi mod changes other aspects that I'd prefer left alone, and I only heard about it in the last few months anyway). Everything I've seen about Civ VI so far apart from the AI suggests that it will be the best game in the series; if you fudge this up, I just might not even bother to wait for Civ VII at all (ha! who am I kidding? ).

 

[Pepo]

It's going to be as bad on release. The AI has been in development for quite a bit of time now, 4months aren't going to fix it

 

[Mustakrakish]

If I had a nickel for every time I saw a flaw in a video game in a pre-Alpha build, and everyone told me not to worry about it because "It's an old build! It'll be fixed for release!" ...and then it was still there in the release build...

I'd be more optimistic, but there is the niggling fact that Firaxis never managed to fix the tactical AI in Civilization V. Kinda colors my opinion, you know?

pre-Alpha...