Comments on mages

[Exsequien]

Hi

first of all, I love this mod especially the magic system.

The only thing that really bugs me is this:

Adepts must reach level 4 so they can be upgraded. Even when you have enough experience, you MUST pick 3 promotions so you can upgrade.

Here's the problem: Often I want to upgrade my adepts so I can get the lvl 2 spells (especially fireball) but I don't have enough/good mana resources to get 2 other useful spells.

So I end up picking "bad" spells or Combat I just so I can upgrade.

- Is there any way to be able to upgrade adepts as soon as they have enough experience?
- Or the promotion system could be changed a bit. You can "learn" all Level I spells as soon as you level up but you can only use the spell if you also own that particular mana.
(Example: You don't own fire mana but you can still pick Blaze (Fire I) as your promotion. But you can't use the spell yet. As soon as you get access to the fire mana resource, the spell becomes useable)

Think of it like this: The mage learns how to *technically* cast the spell but he can't use it yet because he lacks the necessary resources, the mana.)



Another issue is that if I get 2 (or more) of the same mana resource, I feel like I've "wasted" promotions because I would have gotten the Level 1 spells for free.

Maybe instead of granting a free spell to new units, all mage units could visit a city with access to 2 mana resources of the same type and can "buy" a new spell level for free.

(Example: You have 2 fire mana. A new adept can "buy" Blaze (Fire I). A upgraded mage that already has Blaze (Fire I) can "buy" Fireball (Fire II) for free. This way, no promotions will ever be wasted. Except when you already learned Fire III by yourself but that's okay.)

What do you think?

 

[Torugu]

The magic system is going to be reworked completely for version 1.4 anyway.

Obviously that's only if we ever get to see 1.31.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

We won't.
1.31 is going to become like Duke Nukem Forever.

 

[Exsequien]

We won't.
1.31 is going to become like Duke Nukem Forever.

But the duke came back...

 

[Valkrionn]

Hi

first of all, I love this mod especially the magic system.

Glad to hear it, though the magic system is still virtually as it was in Fall from Heaven. It'll be changing in 1.4.

The only thing that really bugs me is this:

Adepts must reach level 4 so they can be upgraded. Even when you have enough experience, you MUST pick 3 promotions so you can upgrade.

Here's the problem: Often I want to upgrade my adepts so I can get the lvl 2 spells (especially fireball) but I don't have enough/good mana resources to get 2 other useful spells.

So I end up picking "bad" spells or Combat I just so I can upgrade.

Check this out: urlremoved/rife/blog/2010/08/05/magic-revisited/

Important part is the "Spell Changes".

- Is there any way to be able to upgrade adepts as soon as they have enough experience?

That one's not happening.

- Or the promotion system could be changed a bit. You can "learn" all Level I spells as soon as you level up but you can only use the spell if you also own that particular mana.
(Example: You don't own fire mana but you can still pick Blaze (Fire I) as your promotion. But you can't use the spell yet. As soon as you get access to the fire mana resource, the spell becomes useable)

Think of it like this: The mage learns how to *technically* cast the spell but he can't use it yet because he lacks the necessary resources, the mana.)

Also not happening in that way (Leanring a spell involves much practice, IMO. Without the mana, no practice), but again, some things will be changing.

Another issue is that if I get 2 (or more) of the same mana resource, I feel like I've "wasted" promotions because I would have gotten the Level 1 spells for free.

Maybe instead of granting a free spell to new units, all mage units could visit a city with access to 2 mana resources of the same type and can "buy" a new spell level for free.

(Example: You have 2 fire mana. A new adept can "buy" Blaze (Fire I). A upgraded mage that already has Blaze (Fire I) can "buy" Fireball (Fire II) for free. This way, no promotions will ever be wasted. Except when you already learned Fire III by yourself but that's okay.)

What do you think?

Those free promotions are more or less going to go away completely.

We won't.
1.31 is going to become like Duke Nukem Forever.

It is not. The only thing we need to do is finish the lairs. I am oh so sorry that I have to place school ahead of something I do for free, in my spare time.

 

[Meldon]

Is it funny that the thing I'm looking forward to the most is the Hamstalfar?

 

[Valkrionn]

Honestly, they're quite fun. A lot of humor involved, but even ignoring the Hamsters, they represent a playstyle that did not exist before.

And are, incidentally of course, perfectly suited to the way I prefer to play.

 

[Exsequien]

Glad to hear it, though the magic system is still virtually as it was in Fall from Heaven. It'll be changing in 1.4.



Check this out: urlremoved/rife/blog/2010/08/05/magic-revisited/

Important part is the "Spell Changes".

Hey, thanks for the quick response. The changes in 1.4 sound amazing! Really looking forward to it.

Also not happening in that way (Leanring a spell involves much practice, IMO. Without the mana, no practice), but again, some things will be changing.

I'm sure you'll figure out a good way

Those free promotions are more or less going to go away completely.

Ah, excellent.

It is not. The only thing we need to do is finish the lairs. I am oh so sorry that I have to place school ahead of something I do for free, in my spare time.

People are just really excited for your mod and can't for it, heh. Just take your time.

 

[dommain]

It is not. The only thing we need to do is finish the lairs. I am oh so sorry that I have to place school ahead of something I do for free, in my spare time.

As long as you don't put partying before school and Civilization; I am alright with that.

 

[Valkrionn]

Oh, partying definitely comes before civilization.

My friends and I all live in different cities, it's a two hour drive for us to meet up. When they come down, there will be parties. That simple. It just doesn't happen very often.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Also keep in mind that Combat I helps most spells anyway, so if you're gearing your Adept up for the second-level spells, Combat I & II, Mobility, and/or Spell Extension are not at all bad choices for promotions.

 

[Fanghorn]

Also keep in mind that Combat I helps most spells anyway, so if you're gearing your Adept up for the second-level spells, Combat I & II, Mobility, and/or Spell Extension are not at all bad choices for promotions.

i second that. Combat helps survivability and summons. Also its a requirement for resistance if i recall that correctly.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

It is not. The only thing we need to do is finish the lairs. I am oh so sorry that I have to place school ahead of something I do for free, in my spare time.

Now that is a massive relief.

I already feared that the evils of CIV5 had enticed you like they did so many people.

 

[Valkrionn]

Frankly, Civ5 is a better game than Civ4. It has issues currently, but they are being fixed.... And the Civ4 release was no better (indeed, I'm of the opinion that it was worse).

The fact that we are still working on RifE does not mean that we prefer Civ4, it means that we are committed to finishing the project.

 

[Rapier]

Frankly, Civ5 is a better game than Civ4. It has issues currently, but they are being fixed.... And the Civ4 release was no better (indeed, I'm of the opinion that it was worse).

What's your basis for saying Civ5 is a better game? I have not played it yet, though I have watched others play. While I agree completely that Civ4 was fairly bad at launch and it needed both expansions to really be worth playing (and the mods after that made it better).

Civ5 seems to be the same to me so far, it needs a lot of work to improve it currently that I think will have to be in the form of expansions.

 

[Exsequien]

I have some questions about the new magic system...

1) So the spells are balanced by school (let's say Elementalism) but you still need both the research and the according mana to learn the spells, right? So if you only have fire and air mana, you can't learn Water/Earth/Ice spells, correct?

2) Also, are you adding new spells? Currently there are only a handful of useful spells (outside of summons) and I'd love to see a few new ones. Already seen tons of good suggestions on this forum.

3) Have you ever thought about limiting buffs? Currently you only need a single mage with Body I to buff your whole army forever. With the new willpower system, you could limit that. Something like "Haste" costs 0.25 Willpower to maintain for 1 unit (but the buff lasts forever).

This way you don't have to cast the same spell every turn anew and have to carefully choose the targets you wanna buff. Also, this would make the willpower stat interesting for non-summoners. Maybe multiple types of 1 mana could decrease the willpower cost (1 Body mana = 0.25 willpower/unit, 2 Body mana = 0.15 willpower/unit, etc...)

 

[Valkrionn]

What's your basis for saying Civ5 is a better game? I have not played it yet, though I have watched others play. While I agree completely that Civ4 was fairly bad at launch and it needed both expansions to really be worth playing (and the mods after that made it better).

Civ5 seems to be the same to me so far, it needs a lot of work to improve it currently that I think will have to be in the form of expansions.

I should have said "It has the potential to be a far better game than Civ4 ever was."

Basically, while some things I dislike (such as the exact way happiness is handled, but a couple of the testers, including myself, are not just arguing for a change to that system, we're modding the change into the game ourselves so it can be tested), on the whole I love the new mechanics. 1upt works well IMO, social policies are great, etc.

The main issues with the game come down to balance (which, frankly, has no impact on my opinion of it as I will be using it as a framework to create Eden, which means discarding all specific game items) and a lack of micro (The game has far more important decisions, but it has fewer of them. This is what hurts the "One more turn" feeling; More decisions, even if unimportant, keep you wanting to keep going. Eden will be adding micro in specific areas, in interesting ways. ).

I have some questions about the new magic system...

1) So the spells are balanced by school (let's say Elementalism) but you still need both the research and the according mana to learn the spells, right? So if you only have fire and air mana, you can't learn Water/Earth/Ice spells, correct?

2) Also, are you adding new spells? Currently there are only a handful of useful spells (outside of summons) and I'd love to see a few new ones. Already seen tons of good suggestions on this forum.

3) Have you ever thought about limiting buffs? Currently you only need a single mage with Body I to buff your whole army forever. With the new willpower system, you could limit that. Something like "Haste" costs 0.25 Willpower to maintain for 1 unit (but the buff lasts forever).

This way you don't have to cast the same spell every turn anew and have to carefully choose the targets you wanna buff. Also, this would make the willpower stat interesting for non-summoners. Maybe multiple types of 1 mana could decrease the willpower cost (1 Body mana = 0.25 willpower/unit, 2 Body mana = 0.15 willpower/unit, etc...)

• Correct, you must have the mana type.
• Many spells will be entirely redesigned.
• That falls under the "Aura" system.

 

[Exsequien]

[*]That falls under the "Aura" system.
[/LIST]

Aura system? Elaborate please.

 

[Valkrionn]

Persistent area-effect buffs. All I'll say about it for now.

 

[Jarwy]

What I'm looking most forward to is to be able play Elves again, finally, god damn it. How about a hotfix 1.30001 with just that feature, oy?