Common sense knife regulation

[Lexicus]

One has to suppose that the archetype of rights existed also in pharaonic Egypt

Do we? Sounds like unironic Platonism but okay

 

[Sommerswerd]

The archetype of rights does exist, but archetypes also are mental phenomena, and do not have to manifest in the external world- let alone in societal setting. One has to suppose that the archetype of rights existed also in pharaonic Egypt, and yet they operated with priestly casts and serfs.

@Berzerker 's argument seems to be dancing around this idea... that we as humans collectively share a sense that we all have a right to live, be free, etc., and it is theoretically codified, legitimized or what have you, by that collective value that we have/share/sense, essentially "universally."

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Isn't that kind of reasoning behind the basic morality of War? That the survival/defense/well-being of the nation... the nation's "right to defend itself" is superior to the "right to life" of the slain?

It's the stated justification, but this may or may not actually reflect the utility function of those choosing to engage or participate in war. I'd guess usually not, but I'm not in their heads.

a concealed 150-inch machete in public

That would be incredibly impressive. Let me know where you got the bag of holding! I've always wanted one IRL.

The archetype of rights does exist, but archetypes also are mental phenomena, and do not have to manifest in the external world- let alone in societal setting. One has to suppose that the archetype of rights existed also in pharaonic Egypt, and yet they operated with priestly casts and serfs.

Brains and their function are part of the physical world, as were the people of Egypt.

we as humans collectively share a sense that we all have a right to live, be free, etc., and it is theoretically codified, legitimized or what have you, by that collective value that we have/share/sense, essentially "universally."

An overwhelming majority of people do seem to prefer this. It's not quite universal.

 

[Lexicus]

Brains and their function are part of the physical world, as were the people of Egypt.

The physical world is just a projection of the real world of information

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The physical world is just a projection of the real world of information

Trusting our brain functions in aggregate for using the information presented is still the best method we have, likely for some time still.

 

[Sommerswerd]

It's not quite universal.

Thus the scare quotes. My point is that the argument as-made begs-the-question of universality... and indeed, depends on it, because it is that consensus which serves as the substitute for "god" or "nature" etc. The phrase, "We hold these truths to be self-evident" is a good example of this kind of approach... although of course it was immediately followed with an appeal to the authority of god.

 

[Sommerswerd]

It's the stated justification, but this may or may not actually reflect the utility function of those choosing to engage or participate in war. I'd guess usually not, but I'm not in their heads.

I'll refer you to the late, great George Carlin (mostly just because he's awesome) and his take on our "right" to life.

"But you know, the longer you listen to this abortion debate, the more you hear this phrase 'sanctity of life.'" You've heard that, 'sanctity of life.'" You believe in it? Personally, I think it's a bunch of <expletive> Well I mean, life is sacred? Who said so? God? Hey if you read history, you realize that God is one of the leading causes of death, has been for thousands of years. Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Christians, all taking turns killing each other because God told them it was a good idea...
... But don't be giving me all this <expletive> about the sanctity of life. I mean, even if there were such a thing, I don't think it's something you can blame on God. No, you know where the sanctity of life came from? We made it up! You know why? Cause we're alive! Self-interest. Living people have a strong interest in promoting the idea that somehow life is sacred. ... dead people give less than a <expletive> about the sanctity of life. Only living people care about it, so the whole thing grows out of a completely biased point of view. It's a self-serving, man-made <expletive> story. It's one of these things we tell ourselves so we'll feel noble. Life is sacred, makes you feel noble... Because even with the stuff we preach about the sanctity of life, we don't practice it. Look at what we kill. Mosquitoes and flies, because they're pests! Lions and tigers, because it's fun! Chickens and pigs, because we're hungry. Pheasants and quail, because it's fun, and we're hungry. And people! We kill people, because they're pests... and it's fun!

And you might have noticed something else, the sanctity of life doesn't seem to apply to cancer cells, does it? You never see a bumper sticker that says 'save the tumors' or 'I brake for advanced melanoma.' No, viruses, mold, mildew, maggots, fungus, weeds, e. coli bacteria, the crabs, nothing sacred about those things. So at best, the sanctity of life is kind of a selective thing. We get to choose which forms of life we feel are sacred, and we get to kill the rest. Pretty neat deal, huh? You know how we got it? We made the whole <expletive> thing up! Made it up, the same way we made up the death penalty. We made them both up, the sanctity of life and the death penalty. Aren't we versatile?!"

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/george-carlin-comedian-sanctity-life-lyrics.html

 

[Kyriakos]

@Berzerker 's argument seems to be dancing around this idea... that we as humans collectively share a sense that we all have a right to live, be free, etc., and it is theoretically codified, legitimized or what have you, by that collective value that we have/share/sense, essentially "universally."

Sure, but in order for an archetype (it basically means a theoretical possiblity of existence and potential manifestation in language or -more externally- in law etc) to exist, the idea the archetype is of does not at all have to have ethical merit. Literally ALL ideas have archetypes, including wanton murder.
That said, there is also an archetype of general ideas, including being 'ethical', and it would indeed seem that it is not realistic to expect most people to argue that treating other people like garbage is ethical.
The above, in less philosophical terms: not many people would argue that being ethical included taking rights from others, while most people would readily accept that it is ethical to (as a basis) treat people fairly/humanely etc etc.

 

[Cassius Critzer]

In my state, anyone may open carry a very large sharp hunting knife yet that has not resulted in unexpected knife attacks. That is the case for many states.

All you are doing by regulation is disarming the law abiding citizen and limiting their ability even further against criminals.

In my region, the preponderance of guys have lock blade knives because they are so practical. I cannot imagine such repression that is afraid of the average citizen.

An example
https://knifeup.com/tennessee-knife-laws/

What is Legal to Own

It is legal to own a Bowie knife
It is legal to own a dirk, dagger, or other stabbing knife
It is legal to own a disguised knife such as in a belt buckle or lipstick
It is legal to own a stiletto
It may be legal to own a butterfly knife, however, one should check with an attorney first, as Tennessee’s definition of a switchblade could include a butterfly knife. Courts in most states would call a butterfly knife one that opens by “gravity or inertia”, which is how Tennessee defines a switchblade knife. However, other Courts have viewed butterfly knives, not as automatic or gravity knives, but as a type of pocketknife. As of June 2013, Tennessee’s Courts have yet to weigh in.


.

Since August of 2017, one may open carry a machette or sword in Texas and they are not anticipating any negative effects. And frankly that would have been the case at the time in which the 2nd Amendment was protected.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

To be fair allowing disguised knives but not switchblades is also nonsensical. It's not as draconian and stupid as a kitchen knife ban, but it has a similar lack of coherent supportive reasoning.

 

[Cassius Critzer]

It is fear based nonsense. In political theory, do people have inalienable and inherent natural rights which are not subject to whims and not assigned by the vagaries of government rule? Or does the government decree rights?

That is why democracies are abominations. It also is bigoted as some minority will get their rights trampled upon because the mob is afraid of that minority and feels the minority member is less deserving of their rights. It creates tiers of citizenship.

And in the USA, there are local municipalities which draft and enact unconstitutional local laws which violate their own state constitutions AND the federal Constitution. Which then makes every law enforcement officer a betrayer of their oath they swore when becoming an officer or trooper.

One may open carry reasonable knives of a certain length in just about every state, even California, as mandated by state and federal constitutions, but limited in regard to certain places like schools. Yet then Los Angeles restricts this illegally and until it is challenged at great expense, it is allowed.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

In political theory, do people have inalienable and inherent natural rights which are not subject to whims and not assigned by the vagaries of government rule? Or does the government decree rights?

I don't know about "political theory" in this context, but I think we can all plainly see what the evidence shows in practice :/.

 

[Berzerker]

Both... The Bill of Rights (and Declaration of Independence) is based on the premise of rights existing before the establishment of their government, speech, religion, association, self defense, freedom. You can see this in how they worded amendments, Congress shall make no law abridging these rights. The assumption being the rights already exist, not that Congress invented them. But other rights are invented by government, hopefully rights that fill in any gaps or finally recognize and remedy an injustice.

 

[Farm Boy]

Of course sanctity fades when we let it fade, as Carlin would agree. I'm on my first vacation I've ever wished I'd have skipped and just worked instead, and my son walked past a shattered crab weakly waving as a seagull idly picked its guts before going back to sniping more choice morsels from the fat apes. Mundane and unnoticed, utterly devoid of meaning but for the brief care of one mammal, a care taught to be tamped down, conditionally, here. No sanctity but what we decide to mirror onto the world.

We decide to make something greater echo here? It echoes here. We decide we're a team? We're a team. We look at today same team and decide that me is the most important thing in there? Well, we can replicate the crass as well as the divine.

 

[bhavv]

A compass (for drawing circles) can be pretty lethal as well.

Surprisingly back when I was at school I had a compass with a 2 inch point.

Arrest me, I'm dangerous and armed.