Community Call to Power Project

[FiresForever]

@chrome and his earlier rant: I have been thinking on this and it got me wondering, i assume these have a heavy gold flavor focus.

Now this might be completely wrong but as we all know having 10,000 gold in CCTP is not a big amount of money because of the 5x system. In vanilla however this is a massive amount of gold, as such i wonder if the ai is seeing the fact it has 10,000 gold and thinking it does not need to focus on gold production as it is using vanilla values as its bases.

 

[chrome-rome]

I play nights too. Not nearly as much as your mod. I prefer yours over all of them and I just like throwing ideas by you and fires and the rest of the guys because you all really know your stuff. I'm not shamelessly promoting or anything. I have nothing resembling a mod yet. Just ideas. Sorry man.

No harm no foul. Just thrown off a bit, but I really appreciate the compliment

@Fires @ my rant (lol): This could be the case. I'm going to run a test game with the flavors way out of proportion to see if they will take up the techs then. Granted, all of this will be fixed once we really get going on the breakthroughs, but right now it's just really annoying. The AI is missing out on some really great buildings due to this blockage.

 

[DocBuchanan]

You're right Chrome I'm cluttering up another mods thread I wasn't thinking about it. Where do you suppose is the best place to open a thread for a mod in development? Nobody looks in the development section lol. Probably just the main creation and customization thread.

@Doc: it looks good; now for my comments

Remove the farmer, then switch the locations of the wheat farm and Granary. That way the bread maker and fermentary can have the granary as a requirement, the granary has the wheat resource as its requirement. I don't know if you can have for example a 'cake resource' from the cake shop as a requirement for a wonder? You will be wanting to look into the "building resource mod" (i think that's what its called) this allows buildings to generate resources.

 

[chrome-rome]

You're right Chrome I'm cluttering up another mods thread I wasn't thinking about it. Where do you suppose is the best place to open a thread for a mod in development? Nobody looks in the development section lol. Probably just the main creation and customization thread.

The main page is where I would start. Many modders look through the main page before going to their respective mods to see if they can answer any questions. You can get a wide range of opinions there as well.

@Fires: I multiplied all of the monopoly flavors by 10, and now they are only acting normal. I am so confused by the whole deal but at least that block is gone. I expected the AI to just shoot through the "super" techs but they seriously passed them up for a good number of turns. I think it's just that the AI don't have strong flavors for the values that the techs have. Not probable that it would ignore flavors like production and growth, but apparently that's what happened. Maybe if they had some expansion flavors... any-who, I'm happy now. Confused, but happy.

 

[FiresForever]

Well tonight I thought I would work some more on the realnameearth mod to get it working nice with CCTP. The goal i set was to try to not butcher it too much and retain as much as possible. One thing i wanted to keep was the historical mission system, it is very cool but some might not want it in every game, so i looked at the check button that was already there but not working. After a bit of searching i got it working. 99.9% of the code was already there just needed this check button pointing to it, the author Seraphim8400 clearly has thought of everything .

For those who want the historical missions it will need a bit of adjustment to get it to the x5 system, which i have already begun, gaining 1000 gold isn't that hard in CCTP . The time based missions will probably need to be played with after feedback to get it matching our timeline.

I have also been carefully going through and removing the adjustments it makes to units, buildings etc, i say carefully because my initial hack a jack method completely broke it .

Also if anyone wants to have more info on this map there is a post a few threads down by the original author. I am still waiting to hear back from the author of the map so i wont be posting a public early test version yet.

 

[rulner]

Is there a reason why we don’t use titles in the posts to separate out the topics we are discussing? Might make things easier to find later.

RE:CSs & nathan's post

Spoiler :

@shoi: Thanks for sharing that mod, that's actually exactly what I was thinking .

@rulner and chrome:
I think that there should be different types of CSs, since there is one of warmongering empires, and one for cultural empires, there should also be one for science, productivity and commercial empires too.

Science CSs:
I agree that science per turn may be too strong, which is why I would prefer a bonus which is similar to the culture bonus... Like +6 in starting eras, maybe going up to 8-10, but staying around that area.

Production CSs:
Production CS would be very nice in the beginning, giving a small but useful boost. Later in the game this could go up a little by era, but not by much! Maybe from 5 in early eras to 7-9 later. I feel that in reality, peace with city states is very important, even today, just look at our world today! . And about them being too important later, well, this bonus would actually be much less significant later on, since you'd already have so much production, even with the era boost.

Commerce CSs
I agree with the part on commerce being an issue, but think of it this way... You are basically investing, say 500, and getting a certain amount back over time. Or, if you were to use the CSDM mod, will stop being such a contradictory thing. For those who don't know, the CSDM mod's idea is (and rightfully so) to stop putting gold gifts at the center of CS diplomacy, because that's just unrealistic! So there are other ways to make peace with them, and then wouldn't seem like such an issue . Or, this gold bonus could be based on how many cities you have connected to your trade network.

Alternative commerce idea:
ALSO, an alternative, make it so that CS's give you a bonus in commerce based on what monopoly buildings you have! Basically, if you're better at trade, you get better bonuses on this. I'm not decided yet whether that should be just commerce CS's or all of them, but I think that this should emphasize the importance of TRADE with CS's... And since the way diplo with CS's works now with gold is a big joke, this monopoly tradeoff would make even more sense with the CSDM mod!

The new bonuses in not just another CS mod:
I also really loved the addition of great-people CS's and diplomacy CS's, though IMO, this shouldn't be a dedicated CS, rather a small bonus that may or may not be added from certain CS's based on their personality, eg. a scientific CS that is also peaceful, and therefor give a diplo bonus . Or a productive CS that is also progressive (gives you more gold-age points).

Importance of CSs:
I understand that some of you feel that CS shouldn't be so important, but I feel that CS have, and always will be, an important part of any empire. They do, after all, take up so much space on the map. And this would add such an interesting part to the game. I also feel this would give people much more respect to the CSs, and not some annoying obstacle that keep spamming units and blocking you . Most importantly, we're looking to make the game more epic. What else would make the game feel more epic than more interactivity with city-states?



OH, and last idea, we could also have a mission of a city state be to be the first to make a breakthrough! Cool, huh? .

What do you guys think of my ideas? I enjoy all your responses, it's nice to share my brainstorms!

I totally agree with nathanglevy about the epicness being increased by giving more importance to CSs. I would love to see an increase in usefulness of the CSs. Loved Natanglevy's ideas and the mission idea too. We could do so much with this. Aggressive CSs could potentially drag you into wars with other CIvs\CSs – they don’t start wars at present but it would be cool if you end up being dragged into one.

A couple of questions - Are CSs still building Wonders? (I think that's really cool but haven't had that happen since the new version came out last month).

TRPs\PRPs
WOW - Yes please, I want some of that ! However I think there should be some degradation though because eg if you were culturally orientated nation from 1500BC to 1AD and then went militaristic from 1AD to 2000AD, you would have lost that cultural orientation. Perhaps the PRPs would be era based or sub category based like Melee or Horses based but that complicates things further.

The smaller tech discoveries gained from PRPs would not automatically provide you with a new unit\building to build but rather an enhancement to existing units\buildings (eg the discovery of night vision goggles would allow you to upgrade your units at a production and\or financial cost and give you minor combat improvements – you could have a stockpile of hammers from production PRPs which could be used). This could also be a good place to add armour etc (ok so adding additional stats as was discussed earlier is a long way away if ever but still… the possibilities… mmmmh. CSs can share their TRPs\PRPs when you are allied with too .

How would you get the AI to understand this concept though – tough one I would imagine or would the flavours be enough. Would you not have to get the AI to evaluate where he is strong enough first so that he could beeline a specific orientation? If so then you would probably need to look at how he could potentially change at some stage. Not all Civs continue being the force they once were in a specific orientation (eg the British are no longer the naval force they once were and are not orientated that way now).

 

[Horem]

Now this might be completely wrong but as we all know having 10,000 gold in CCTP is not a big amount of money because of the 5x system. In vanilla however this is a massive amount of gold, as such i wonder if the ai is seeing the fact it has 10,000 gold and thinking it does not need to focus on gold production as it is using vanilla values as its bases.

I alrerady thought of this, and changed the Flavor_Gold in the monopoly stuff to Flavor_Infrastructure to see if it made a diff(sent a copt to chrome), not had tiem to test it yet, will do in a little while(off work pulled sumint in my back).

@Fires @ my rant (lol): This could be the case. I'm going to run a test game with the flavors way out of proportion to see if they will take up the techs then. Granted, all of this will be fixed once we really get going on the breakthroughs, but right now it's just really annoying. The AI is missing out on some really great buildings due to this blockage.

How high did you rank them up? (i had to take the flavors upto 60(and use upto 6 flavors(Production, Science, Gold, Culture, Offence, Expansion) in the Epic Speed Mod for the AI to rush for science buildings I introduced)

Edit:

You know it might just be easier to add a new flavor(hmm duno how to myself, or even if its poss without dll) for the monopoly system, and add it too all the Civilizations as a High Priority.

 

[rulner]

(off work pulled sumint in my back).

Playing too much Civ will do that to you - I blame those damn barbarians! I'm sure I'm not the only who points at the screen and shouts "WHERE THE **** DID THEY COME FROM??"

 

[Horem]

Playing too much Civ will do that to you

I wish! 2-3hrs a day is my max, and thats for moddign and playing. Im usualy in work 5am - 5.30pm mon-fri.

 

[chrome-rome]

(title courtesy of rulner )

@Horem: the file you sent I originally reduced the flavors by 2-4x, depending on what I thought they should be compared with the other building flavors. After reducing them, I multiplied everything by 10. After a good night's sleep I have a theory about why it requires such excessive flavors: a few weeks ago I made changes to the strategic AI to make them favor value production and science more than gold (there's a tag for this so I didn't have to mess around with their flavors). My thinking was that the AI never gets into gold problems and they never purchase anything with their gold, so the emphasis would be better used on some yields that the AI uses.

I don't think it's the 5x system simply because the other tech tree, engineering, is not like that, but both deal with the 5x yields. Or, all of the flavors are affected, it's just that some techs make more sense in relation to the others. Honestly I'm just glad it's moved to a working state.

 

[Horem]

Armor and Weapons mod, minus the units sorry, its the only copy I can find atm(its out of an old mod that i managed to d/l form gamespy), adjusted it a bit to fit in with CCTP(prereq's, costs, maintenace ect). Got 2 failed IDE HD's here(the ones outa ma old PC) that I know have alot of my early Civ work on them, and the work I was doing on my mod(Middle Age Europe). Unfortunatly I have no idea how to recuse data form failed HD's.

IconAtlas and Icons are form Kaels Legions Mod.

 

[Hyronymus]

chrome-rome, are you still interested in a further work-through the scientific breakthroughs? I've noticed the discussion has moved away from it over the passed days so I haven't expanded on my post here yet.

 

[Horem]

Epic Speed Mod Updated.

 

[chrome-rome]

chrome-rome, are you still interested in a further work-through the scientific breakthroughs? I've noticed the discussion has moved away from it over the passed days so I haven't expanded on my post here yet.

Yes, I just want to square away the Modern Era and general pacing first. Thing is, I expect the BTs to take a long time to get ready, so I want you all to have good quality stuff while you wait.

 

[FiresForever]

So with doc and daniel working on the resource placement for the TSL map i have been working, along side everything else i am doing, on adding the new unit art released by danrell. With hufgars mod in hand to help me figure it all out i have got the Tommies ingame as the English alternative to infantry. I will be keeping these units as the same stats as to what they are replacing, at some point however they can be tweaked with promotions and stat changes to make them feel more unique by whoever is up for it

Now begins the task of adding all the rest , with everything going on the next version of CCTP should be quite feature packed: major balancing, tsl earth map and now new units

Edit: If someone has a good list of nicknames for all of the different infantry units in WW2 that would be good, one for each country.

 

[chrome-rome]

Don't forget all the policy stuff Fires

 

[FiresForever]

Don't forget all the policy stuff Fires

going to be a seriously good update

 

[Horem]

So I finaly managed to get a game to 511 Turns, mid way through the Medieval Era, Most the AI I am playing against have Snaped up all the Monopoly Techs, and have even built a bunch of monopoly buildings. Im Running 5th in my game(outa 8) with 6 cities. My capital is size 20 and the rest are between 14-18. Got a gold income of around 800(with 3 cities on wealth), 23 happiness, and science is at 51. Which means im reserching 1 tech every 30 or so turns(untill next science building(Museum or public school)). Prince Diffulculty, Standard Map, High resources and Domination Only Victory.

Monopoly Flavors are as I sent them to you Chrome, 20-30 for techs, and 30-180 for buildings. I am playing with my Epic Speed Mod, I was thinking maybe the extra time thats available (its about 3000 turns for a complete game at this speed) is benifical for the AI, witht a short game they may well ignore certain techs/flavors? In favor of going for a quick victory and or important techs? We are all within 2-3 techs of each other. Been no Ears Belingning either, we have all progressed to the next era withing 30-50 turns of ea other, Which isnt to bad.

 

[knatte_Anka]

Tweak gold from GoodyHuts and Barbariancamp and buy land
here are some tweaks and also what I have concluded that the different parts affect.

Spoiler :

<GoodyHuts>
	<!-- tweak Goodyhut gold gift.  -->
	<!--  Gold = base gold  -->
	<!--  NumGoldRandRolls = gold multiplier for random number-->
	<!--  GoldRandAmount = gold random number 0->this  -->
	<!-- NumGoldRandRolls * GoldRandAmount + Gold = Gold you get. -->
	<!-- (max is then 50*11+800= 1350 and min is then 50*0+800 = 800 -->
		<Update>
			<Set Gold="800" NumGoldRandRolls="50" GoldRandAmount="11"/> 
			<Where Type="GOODY_GOLD"/>
		</Update>	
</GoodyHuts>

to change the cost for land and gold from barbariancamps you change 

"GoldPercent" in CIV5GameSpeeds.xml 
and 1000% does that if you want to buy land it cost 500 to start with and one camp give 2500gold.
(example) 

<GameSpeeds>
		<Update>
			<Set ResearchPercent="160" GoldPercent="1000"/>
			<Where Type="GAMESPEED_STANDARD"/>
		</Update>
</GameSpeeds>

 

[FiresForever]

Ok i am almost finished with the English ww2 units, i selected 9 good ones out of the lot to represent tank, fighter, etc. I think there is a need to add some new unit classes though; early fighter, heavy tank, heavy and light bomber, etc. I think it is something to consider when we (chrome ) are working on the breakthrough system so they can be fitted in.

It took a while getting all the new files laid out but now the rest should go a lot smoother and quicker .