Community Call to Power Project

To all who are currently working on a part of this mod, please send me a PM giving a summary of your work. It's getting a little hard to keep everyone's project in mind for planning and delegating, and it would be a shame if several people end up working on the same thing. In your PM, please note whether you want to work alone or with someone else, as I'm sure we can put two like-minded people together for some great synergy. Thanks!
 
So I finaly managed to get a game to 511 Turns, mid way through the Medieval Era, Most the AI I am playing against have Snaped up all the Monopoly Techs, and have even built a bunch of monopoly buildings. Im Running 5th in my game(outa 8) with 6 cities. My capital is size 20 and the rest are between 14-18. Got a gold income of around 800(with 3 cities on wealth), 23 happiness, and science is at 51. Which means im reserching 1 tech every 30 or so turns(untill next science building(Museum or public school)). Prince Diffulculty, Standard Map, High resources and Domination Only Victory.

Monopoly Flavors are as I sent them to you Chrome, 20-30 for techs, and 30-180 for buildings. I am playing with my Epic Speed Mod, I was thinking maybe the extra time thats available (its about 3000 turns for a complete game at this speed) is benifical for the AI, witht a short game they may well ignore certain techs/flavors? In favor of going for a quick victory and or important techs? We are all within 2-3 techs of each other. Been no Ears Belingning either, we have all progressed to the next era withing 30-50 turns of ea other, Which isnt to bad.

That's very good! For a while I was thinking about completely redesigning the game pacing, complete with buildings, units, and techs getting slowed way down. I decided against it, as I will have to do the same with the BTs when they role around anyway. Three-thousand turns is a looong time; do the AI manage to stay alive until the end? It's great that you are finding tech parity so easily, but your happiness is worrying me (esp for being in the Medieval Era). Still need to work out a way to keep it under control. I might have a game or two using your settings, but that 3000 turn game is really daunting; assuming my computer can handle it, I know that once I hit that point where the game gets good, I won't be able to stop until I see it through to the end. Don't know if I could use that kind of time drain. :lol:
 
I myself have not managed more than 720 turns(version 2 of epic speed) before deciding something needs tweaking and having to restart :)

Whats wrong with ma hapiness to much you think? bare in mind, I only had 6 cities.(have 8 in current game, coming up on medieval, 10 turns or so and 16 hapiness with largest city at 13, I was strugling for happiness right upto about 30 turns ago when i decided it was tiem to build monopoly buildings)

I am also toying with the Idea of adding in some science buff to buildings from policies(waiting atm to see wat new version of CCTP is like first), going to use the same route with the -50% research on palace building, but say adding +1% Global Research per policy. Would speed things up late game but not early on(funest part of the game to me, getting your empire set up and deciding whats what)
 
I don't want to be troublesome, but can someone please upload the latest version to sourceforge.net? Both Mediafire and Rapidshare are inaccessible to me for whatever reason (bug, Chinese firewall, or VPN).
 
I don't want to be troublesome, but can someone please upload the latest version to sourceforge.net? Both Mediafire and Rapidshare are inaccessible to me for whatever reason (bug, Chinese firewall, or VPN).

Not a problem at all. I'll get right on it. I'll post again when it's done. :D
 
I'm about to finish my first full game with the current version. I'm playing on a standard map, standard speed, king level. my science output is 677, gold 15397, happines 78. I'm in turn 464, so the game will be over rather soon - and I'm only in the Modern era. There is no chance that I will get to the interesting techs of the upcoming eras. I play as Babylon and I get many Great Scientist whom I all use to get even more techs. And I'm the leading tech nation of the world - I cannot see how it should be possible to research most of the techs in one game. anybody else similar experiences?

But this version is already very entertaining - nice job of everybody who is actively involved!!
 
I'm about to finish my first full game with the current version. I'm playing on a standard map, standard speed, king level. my science output is 677, gold 15397, happines 78. I'm in turn 464, so the game will be over rather soon - and I'm only in the Modern era. There is no chance that I will get to the interesting techs of the upcoming eras. I play as Babylon and I get many Great Scientist whom I all use to get even more techs. And I'm the leading tech nation of the world - I cannot see how it should be possible to research most of the techs in one game. anybody else similar experiences?

But this version is already very entertaining - nice job of everybody who is actively involved!!

I have come to the conclusion that the game must be extended in order to get to the end. Even with the tech pace sped up by 33% in this version, it still takes a while to get to the later ages. With that in mind, I'm putting the speed back to how it was, and will just lengthen the game turn wise, maybe up to 850. :eek: I was worried at first, but I see that the AI can at least handle playing that far, even if it isn't completely good at it yet.

___________________________________
Edited OP with the sourceforge link. :D
 
they just released new wonders that this mod already had so is there a copyright issue?
 
Proposition for Practical Research and Theoretical Research system:

Following up on the thread that chrome brought up (written by Andrimner, G-d bless him), I'd like to propose how this would work in game.

First of all, I think that this system should be game changing, though not altering the gameplay so much as that it makes gameplay too complicated. I thought a while about how this could be achieved while adding this brilliant idea into the mod. This is what I thought of:

1. Introduction to the Practical Research and Theoretical Research system:
To those who haven't read the thread yet, I highly suggest it, you can read it here. But in summary, the idea is this: Scientific research is comprised of both theoretical and practical realms. Theoretical research is the mechanic that the game uses now - Science progresses regardless of how much practical research you've done. Practical research would be a way of using practical development of the empire to move research forward. In other words, if you're more developed in a certain realm, you research it better, because you have practical experience.

2. How this would improve the game:
Currently, the "special" powers that civs get are not defined by how they actually act, rather, it is simply a perk that is set before the game. Now why on earth should they have this perk without actually even doing anything? The idea of PR (Practical Research) is that practice makes perfect, and therefore, when researching something you practice a lot, such as a well developed navy, you should be able to research navy better than a nation who does not. Same goes for culture, commerce, military, science and engineering. If you put more effort into something, you're empire should be better at researching it than any other empire, right?

In order to give every player the feeling that he is, in fact, affecting the development of his empire by choosing which path to take. If he likes culture, his empire will specialize in culture, if he is a warmonger-er, he will research military faster. I feel that this addition to the game will make it feel more epic in the sense that your actions and decisions will have an even bigger impact on how you will fare in the future.

3. The issues with a system like this:
There are a few issues with this idea that I took into account while planning how this might work, and here are a few of them:
  • If 1000 years ago a civ was best at navy and now it isn't, it shouldn't keep getting a bonus. We need a system that would correctly reflect if a civ stopped becoming the elite in a certain area.
  • This system needs to be relatively easy to use and simple to understand.
  • It needs to be challenging enough to be awarded only to those that deserve it.

4. How this would work:
I thought about how this would work in game without complicating things too much. My idea is that each area of research will have a "gauge". This gauge will show the average PRP (Practical Research Points) over the last 10 turns. I will use culture as an example to explain how this would work:
  1. The PR Guage:
    The culture PR gauge will be set by incoming culture each turn. Say the user has 1 city and a few culture buildings providing +3 culture, he has in total +3 PRP. The PR gauge will now be 3. If the player were to do something like building a wonder, he would get a boost to the PR gauge (say 10 points). How would building a wonder effect his PR gauge? Let's do the math: If his current average PR is 3, and this turn's PR was 13 then: (3*9+13)/10=4. This shows that by having a 10 point boost in this turn, he bumped up his average of the last 10 turns up to 4. It will take approximately 10 turns for this to drop back down to 3 (unless he builds more culture buildings).
  2. The affect of PR on research:
    Now how will this gauge affect research? Each gauge will have a cap, decided by which tech tier you are in any area (or age, or world average, not sure yet), and depending how much PR you have we can calculate how much % you have from the cap. So say in our case, if the cap was 5 for culture (see part 3 for setting the PR cap), by building the wonder, he now has 80% Practical Research. Now I'm not sure how much exactly this should effect research, but say this would add a whole 80% to research, so if he had 5 beakers, it would now become 9 beakers because of his 80% PR bonus. If you were to advance in a tech tier (in ANY area) without advancing culture-wise, the cap would go higher, and your PR % would go down, slowly loosing your lead in culture. We could also set a minimal percentage of the cap in order to get a bonus, OR set a offset so that as time goes on, your previous cultural buildings don't effect your PR gauge as much (again, something a bit of math can't handle).
  3. Setting the cap for PR:
    Now the cap could be decided by a type of equation, such as: (TIER_MAX * NUMBER_OF_CITIES). TIER_MAX being the maximum amount of culture you could get from culture buildings in that tier (this means that if you neglected culture research and advanced elsewhere, you'd be a higher tier, and therefore, the cap rises while you fall behind). We'd be be able to multiply the equation to offset the drop that will happen by advancing a tier, before building the culture buildings AND the fact that certain cities (the weaker ones) will take a while to build it, but that's just a thought... Now notice that this doesn't take into account culture CSs, this is because that is basically an advantage that can bring you closer and faster to your cap.

    If you think about it, reaching you cap is very difficult, and in certain cases impossible, and I think it should be this way, because it is a very large bonus!
NOTE: This example was for culture, though it could work for any area, such as military, units giving points per strength, military building giving certain points, and war/xp pushing your PR gauge up. Same goes for currency, engineering and science (research itself should also have practical research!). This might require some balancing, but it's definitely doable.

5. How this would be seen by the player:
Now I'm not really sure how I envision this, but say the player is now looking at the main research page. In addition to the buttons to the tech trees, we could show the gauges showing how many PR points he has relative to the cap (basically a completion bar, like the culture win bar). And when researching, you'd see your total research beakers, and when mousing over, it would say something like this:
+130:c5science: total research per turn.
  • 100:c5science: from cities
  • 20:c5science: from practical research (eg. cultural)
  • 10:c5science: from CSs ;)...

This is basically a draft of how I'd see this working in game. We could incorporate the new CS idea with this and make things even more epic. I made a few graphs in excel that show progression of an example game where someone was going for a cultural win. By building many culture buildings, the culture PR stayed around 80% of the cap, and once neglected, quickly fell away (took maybe 2-3 tiers until it dropped low). And like I said before, we could also have a drop-off point where if lower than that, you don't get a bonus, so that would happen faster.

What do you guys think? Feedback is most welcome :D
 
Very interesting :D
I know there was a similar system in Hearts of Iron.
In HoI, for example, if I had research in industry, my factories would build quicker.

Plus the science bonus CS, that is interesting since I created an idea for a policy with a similar effect ^^
I am not sure if chrome-rome would rage at me, but I know how much I hate it when devs keep info for upcoming stuff from us, so...

Here is a new policy that should be implemented soon ^^

'Comintern' (under the Communism gov)
-Friendly City States give +5 Science and ally City States give +15 Science in each city.

:) :D :king:
 
Gents I'm still having trouble with the resource placement. I can't get TSL maps to work without a crash, meaning I can't get to turn one, giving me no output in that program, meaning I can't even begin to figure out how to place resources for you. I'm sorry this may be a little advanced for me.
 
Gents I'm still having trouble with the resource placement. I can't get TSL maps to work without a crash, meaning I can't get to turn one, giving me no output in that program, meaning I can't even begin to figure out how to place resources for you. I'm sorry this may be a little advanced for me.


Sounds like you are not using the right version of ctp mod.
Did you remove the old version of call to power mod from your mod folder?
Did you add the new version of ctp mod from the file in the pm i sent? only this version will work
Try clearing the cache folder (you can find it in the same folder that contains the mod folder)
 
Spoiler :
Proposition for Practical Research and Theoretical Research system:

Following up on the thread that chrome brought up (written by Andrimner, G-d bless him), I'd like to propose how this would work in game.

First of all, I think that this system should be game changing, though not altering the gameplay so much as that it makes gameplay too complicated. I thought a while about how this could be achieved while adding this brilliant idea into the mod. This is what I thought of:

1. Introduction to the Practical Research and Theoretical Research system:
To those who haven't read the thread yet, I highly suggest it, you can read it here. But in summary, the idea is this: Scientific research is comprised of both theoretical and practical realms. Theoretical research is the mechanic that the game uses now - Science progresses regardless of how much practical research you've done. Practical research would be a way of using practical development of the empire to move research forward. In other words, if you're more developed in a certain realm, you research it better, because you have practical experience.

2. How this would improve the game:
Currently, the "special" powers that civs get are not defined by how they actually act, rather, it is simply a perk that is set before the game. Now why on earth should they have this perk without actually even doing anything? The idea of PR (Practical Research) is that practice makes perfect, and therefore, when researching something you practice a lot, such as a well developed navy, you should be able to research navy better than a nation who does not. Same goes for culture, commerce, military, science and engineering. If you put more effort into something, you're empire should be better at researching it than any other empire, right?

In order to give every player the feeling that he is, in fact, affecting the development of his empire by choosing which path to take. If he likes culture, his empire will specialize in culture, if he is a warmonger-er, he will research military faster. I feel that this addition to the game will make it feel more epic in the sense that your actions and decisions will have an even bigger impact on how you will fare in the future.

3. The issues with a system like this:
There are a few issues with this idea that I took into account while planning how this might work, and here are a few of them:
  • If 1000 years ago a civ was best at navy and now it isn't, it shouldn't keep getting a bonus. We need a system that would correctly reflect if a civ stopped becoming the elite in a certain area.
  • This system needs to be relatively easy to use and simple to understand.
  • It needs to be challenging enough to be awarded only to those that deserve it.

4. How this would work:
I thought about how this would work in game without complicating things too much. My idea is that each area of research will have a "gauge". This gauge will show the average PRP (Practical Research Points) over the last 10 turns. I will use culture as an example to explain how this would work:
  1. The PR Guage:
    The culture PR gauge will be set by incoming culture each turn. Say the user has 1 city and a few culture buildings providing +3 culture, he has in total +3 PRP. The PR gauge will now be 3. If the player were to do something like building a wonder, he would get a boost to the PR gauge (say 10 points). How would building a wonder effect his PR gauge? Let's do the math: If his current average PR is 3, and this turn's PR was 13 then: (3*9+13)/10=4. This shows that by having a 10 point boost in this turn, he bumped up his average of the last 10 turns up to 4. It will take approximately 10 turns for this to drop back down to 3 (unless he builds more culture buildings).
  2. The affect of PR on research:
    Now how will this gauge affect research? Each gauge will have a cap, decided by which tech tier you are in any area (or age, or world average, not sure yet), and depending how much PR you have we can calculate how much % you have from the cap. So say in our case, if the cap was 5 for culture (see part 3 for setting the PR cap), by building the wonder, he now has 80% Practical Research. Now I'm not sure how much exactly this should effect research, but say this would add a whole 80% to research, so if he had 5 beakers, it would now become 9 beakers because of his 80% PR bonus. If you were to advance in a tech tier (in ANY area) without advancing culture-wise, the cap would go higher, and your PR % would go down, slowly loosing your lead in culture. We could also set a minimal percentage of the cap in order to get a bonus, OR set a offset so that as time goes on, your previous cultural buildings don't effect your PR gauge as much (again, something a bit of math can't handle).
  3. Setting the cap for PR:
    Now the cap could be decided by a type of equation, such as: (TIER_MAX * NUMBER_OF_CITIES). TIER_MAX being the maximum amount of culture you could get from culture buildings in that tier (this means that if you neglected culture research and advanced elsewhere, you'd be a higher tier, and therefore, the cap rises while you fall behind). We'd be be able to multiply the equation to offset the drop that will happen by advancing a tier, before building the culture buildings AND the fact that certain cities (the weaker ones) will take a while to build it, but that's just a thought... Now notice that this doesn't take into account culture CSs, this is because that is basically an advantage that can bring you closer and faster to your cap.

    If you think about it, reaching you cap is very difficult, and in certain cases impossible, and I think it should be this way, because it is a very large bonus!
NOTE: This example was for culture, though it could work for any area, such as military, units giving points per strength, military building giving certain points, and war/xp pushing your PR gauge up. Same goes for currency, engineering and science (research itself should also have practical research!). This might require some balancing, but it's definitely doable.

5. How this would be seen by the player:
Now I'm not really sure how I envision this, but say the player is now looking at the main research page. In addition to the buttons to the tech trees, we could show the gauges showing how many PR points he has relative to the cap (basically a completion bar, like the culture win bar). And when researching, you'd see your total research beakers, and when mousing over, it would say something like this:
+130:c5science: total research per turn.
  • 100:c5science: from cities
  • 20:c5science: from practical research (eg. cultural)
  • 10:c5science: from CSs ;)...

This is basically a draft of how I'd see this working in game. We could incorporate the new CS idea with this and make things even more epic. I made a few graphs in excel that show progression of an example game where someone was going for a cultural win. By building many culture buildings, the culture PR stayed around 80% of the cap, and once neglected, quickly fell away (took maybe 2-3 tiers until it dropped low). And like I said before, we could also have a drop-off point where if lower than that, you don't get a bonus, so that would happen faster.

What do you guys think? Feedback is most welcome :D

Very well thought out. Plz tell me why you only recently became a member. :lol:

Seriously, there are some really good ideas in there. I don't want to say too much (as I haven't completely digested this yet (the summer break has made my brain mushy :p)) now, but I will be coming back to this post often when we do the serious planning. Hopefully in a few hours I can come up with something more satisfying, but I can tell you that you have made me think.

@ Nuclear: :mad:! Haha, just playing. I have no problem sharing what's happening behind the scenes. I just have a habit of not wanting to disclose anything until I am sure about the finality of things. In this case, it's fine.
 
@Nathan: my first thought on this was how will the ai know what to do with it? This is always the first thing I think of :) in this case though maybe the ai doesn't actually need to know about. The ai already focuses on areas, or is at least supposed to, and this is more of a way to enhance their focus.

I think this will fit in nicely with a system I want to work on after the BT system, I was wondering what benefits a new system would bring to the game as going down the same beaker, gold, happiness and culture points was seeming a bit dull
 
I have been thinking a bit since unit stats and promotion were mentioned and it has been bugging me off and on, especially when I have been adding in the new units. How many actual weapon classes are there in the game, maybe 10? sword, spear, rifle, etc. Armour classes are probably even less, cloth, chainmail, etc. Take swordsman and longswords man they both use a sword, so the long swordsman would have the sword promotion and a generic weapon promotion "weapon refinement" (+25% attack).

So in this system every human unit would have a simple base stat, 2 attack and 2 defence. Their attack and defence differences would then come from their weapon and armour promotions, so adding a sword pushes the attack up to 4.

I think this could be very interesting for anybody wanting to help with the mod, it is all XML work so is defiantly possible for most people reading this and is a great starting point :)

thoughts? Is this a stupid idea? :lol:
 
@ Fires

I like this Idea alot. You could even break the "weapon refinement" down, Bronze Weapon(+10%), Iron Weapon(+20%), Steel Weapon(+30%) the same could be done for arrows(Flaming Arrows +10% vs Cities, Broadheads(armor piercing) +15% vs Land Units, Bodkin(+1 Range?)).

Cloth, Leather, Chainmail, Plate and maybe Scalemail? Sharp weapons(like swords) could suffer a penalty vs Plate wearers. An Blunt weapons(like maces) could get a bonus vs plate? This could go manyways indeed :)

Again it could be applied to naval units, Copper Hulls(+1 speed), Reinforced Hull(+10% Defence), Canister Shot(Cannons)(+20% vs Infantry(Melee))

On a side note,
I found some Units that were also in that old mod where the Armor n Weapons system came forom, they have no custom art/icons though.
 
We can only add 50-60 new promotions but just by doing a rough work through in my head I am sure this is enough for all of the base stuff and a bit more. Of course when the cap is raised this would put us in a good place for adding alot of crazy stuff :D
 
What sets said limit?

Also, if you're doing that, why not do the same for cities, have a bunch of buildings which require Castles (Drawbridge, Moat, Flaming Arrows, Pitch etc) that benefit the city when at war?
 
@nathanglevy:
Am I correct that in your proposal having buildings in a certain branche also affect research into that branche? I.e., if I have 10 military buildings and having those 10 makes me "elite", I get a bonus researching military techs?
 
Governments/Monarchy/Dynasty Policy Says +1 Happiness to Barracks, But actualy gives +2 Happiness.

Was wondering where I was getting extra happiness :) and been a Building Que Addict dont realy read tooltips of buildings much.
 
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