Comp Bow rush and Continent clear

[Myth and Legend]

Why do I suck so much at comp. bow rushing? We're talking about Deity btw.

I've tried maybe 20 times to comp. bow rush my continent and clear it before ocean sailing comes into play. I fail so hard.

If I delay to get NC and bulld up towards Longbows it's too slow. Pure longbowmen attacks come around T100 which is way too late. I figure I have to start early. Three times my immediate target was Ghandi. What kind of luck is this? Comp bows do NOTHING to his huge cities and he loves getting 3-4 knights as soon as he hits Medieval.

Once I ended up near Washington and things were going fine until he got two super experienced longswordsmen upgraded to minutemen. Those two unites basically stalemated the game to the point where continent clearing was impossible.

My experience is that if I go for a super early Cbow rush (prior to NC) i get crippled and the the AIs outpace me. If I take too long my immediate neighbor will have swords/longswords and they will stall until some AI gets to gunpowder. Gunpowder units are too tanky for longbowmen and that is that.

Advice? Let's play video?

Oh, and Standard speed pls. Don't come here saying how easy it is but you play Epic, since Epic gives you a much longer window of opportunity to use early game units.

On standard speed sometimes you have to trudge through forests, jungles or hills to get to his pop 3 cities, stall there for 2-3 turns then go to his capital. That's 10 turns easily. On Epic you have slower tech so the turns spent traveling from point a to point b don't eat up all your time of conquest

 

[brasaelal]

I can't help you with that because I too suck at this. I always read people in this forum talking about archer/cbow/xbow rushes, but it seems to me that those units are too fragile and can't survive mounted units nor city ranged bombardment. And most screenshots I've seen shows lots of them and only them! None or very few meele units.

The few times I tried this kind of rush I had to reroll and raise a decent army with meele units on the front, mounted on the flanks and ranged units on the back.

 

[Myth and Legend]

Also I think the repair pillage + pyramids is an exploit.

 

[BurnBabyBurn]

Agreed, I have done CB rushes on Pangea with no luck. I managed to take a city but was up against Assyria and it was about 10-15 Tiles at most from both our Capitols. Near 10 Siege Towers descended upon me and in Deity the AI has that early... I then tried to CB rush Venice in another game with about the similar distance, but now as Romans and with Legions and CBs. He used several Great Galleass as early cannons to smash up my entire army rotating in and out of the Port and outside of it with the bad terrain my CBs were useless. Of course I should have scouted and seen this...

Finally I rolled the dice last night with The Huns and whoa, their siege equipment is the best I have ever used. I plowed through Poland but lacked Iron and Swordsmen, I was tired by this point and didn't really do much. I smashed the Polish Capitol and was probably not far off a roll over at least on another Civ very close by... Though my starting position was terrible in that game. I think you need just the right amount of units to attempt a rush, perhaps force the AI to DOW itself and get lucky with terrain.

I have done pretty well in fortified terrain myself and a lot better than actually trying to rush. It seems this game favours defense, but you can do some amazing things with Science. I'm sure if you had Tank/Bomber Rush(you would be better off) than a CB rush... 6-7 CBs require 6-7 Spear or Sword better..between you and the opponent plus the optimal firing positions on the opponent. Plus likely that opponent at war by you bribing them at the time of the Rush. I will post up when I finally succeed at my Rush. I think Assyria or The Huns are capable of it in the right circumstances...

 

[brasaelal]

Also I think the repair pillage + pyramids is an exploit.

Agree. Workers shouldn't be allowed to fix improvements in enemy territory.

I did this once, pillaging and repairing at the same turn. Sometimes pillaging a tile twice at the same turn. I earned tons of gold when sieging a persian city, but then I realized it doens't make any sense.

Well... comments about the OP?

 

[beetle]

I am also struggling with this. Usually I can get one and only one city with CBs, the rest of the civ with XBs, then it stalls out. Still, that gets me some room. I always need more CBs than seems reasonable. Also, I can't let hardly any die, because the last cities only fall because the XBs are at +1 range logistics.

It seems to me that those units are too fragile and can't survive mounted units nor city ranged bombardment.

The timing is key, as your early ranged units need to be able to survive one hit, pull back to heal while another archer/cb takes his place. It's tedious and I always need more units than I seem to have on hand, six is minimum. But the good news is that stocking up for bit saves time at the end.

And most screenshots I've seen shows lots of them and only them! None or very few meele units.

That's because the ranged units are so OP, so much value for the hammer. CBs can survive a hit from horse or sword, XB from knight or musket. By the time cities are one-shotting your XB, you must have +1 range.

The few times I tried this kind of rush I had to reroll and raise a decent army with meele units on the front, mounted on the flanks and ranged units on the back.

You need a decent minimum number, but that sounds like over kill. With more ranged, fewer melee, you could have gotten by with an army two-thirds the number. If your are not prematurely attacking the city, killing units first, you should not see more than a couple new knights every turn.

Six fully upgraded XBs and couple horsemen should be enough for a steam roll if the terrain is not terrible. But I have a hard time even getting eight units in the field. Holy Warriors has helped me a lot with that.

 

[tetley]

I do archer rush, not composite rush, and the only time I clear the continent on deity pre-astronomy is on marathon. Actually I think the game is way too easy if I *can* clear the continent before being found. You do what you can, diplomacy the rest. It's part of the challenge.

 

[Vitruvius]

Clearing a continent using comp bows on deity is not probable on standard speed. At most you take out a nearest AI and then tech for longbows.

Using chariot archers and going gung-ho production might be do-able but by that time you will be so far behind from the folks on the other continent.

 

[Acken]

What kind of timing are you trying to achieve with your CB ? Their window of opportunity is in the 55-80 area.

And what kind of city are you trying to take with them ? A city on a hill in the jungle is really hard to take with CB.

Finally, how many do you rush with ?

Edit: And yes you probably won't clear the whole continent with CB on Deity.

 

[Myth and Legend]

So how do people who brag that they clear their continent on Deity do it? Or they lie and don't do it?

 

[tetley]

Marathon setting all the way.

 

[Vitruvius]

So how do people who brag that they clear their continent on Deity do it? Or they lie and don't do it?

1. They didn't clear the continent before astronomy.
2. There's only one or two other opponents on their continent.
3. They used a civ with OP early UU
4. People can clear an entire Pangaea sub T100 so I'm not surprised they can clear a continent.

 

[Acken]

So how do people who brag that they clear their continent on Deity do it? Or they lie and don't do it?

Under special conditions it's possible but that is not the norm.

 

[Cromagnus]

Astronomy comes into play in one of two scenarios.

1) An AI on the other continent researches Astronomy, builds a caravel, and finds your continent. This typically doesn't happen until at least t120 on Standard. Sometimes it happens by t110 or earlier, especially if Kamehameha is in the game.

2) An AI on your continent does the above. This typically doesn't happen until much later because your warlike tendencies are distracting them from focusing on Astronomy & Caravels.

Also, it's not the end of the world if you still have one enemy left to eliminate when you meet the other continent. Eliminating one AI isn't nearly as bad as eliminating 3-4, hate-wise.

So, you really do have until about t120-t30 to finish clearing. This is really not that hard in most cases, if you play your cards right. However, it does require a 'decent start'. Luxury resources, good production, no nasty choke points.

A properly executed composite bow rush involves researching construction, upgrading units AND attacking prior to t60. This requires careful planning, but is fairly reliable with practice. I recommend Liberty and planting the free settler close to whichever nearby AI doesn't forward-settle on you.

This allows you to upgrade in your territory and attack within a few turns, healing in your territory while you eliminate units. Using workers as bait helps. Saving cash for upgrades. Not wasting time building things you don't absolutely need.

And honestly, if you have longbowmen, (IE are playing as England) it's pretty easy to clear a continent, especially if you get Machinery by t110. But you can get it sooner. Go for NC ASAP after Construction, bulb the liberty closer GS 8 turns away from Machinery, and let the good times roll.

You should really try to have two AIs wiped out by t100. Leaving on average 1-2 more to kill by t120. Attack on t60, wipe out one AI one by t80, the second by t100, AI 3 by t110, AI 4 by t120. (The last two go faster with two armies and logistics, which you should have by then...)

Basically, the answer is: It's really f'ing hard until you practice it a lot. Learn from guides and videos. Trick your enemies into fighting each other. Get money in peace deals. Get cities in peace deals and raze the bad ones. Steal workers. Insta-heal to stay in the fight unless you plan on wiping out the other continent with Gatlings, then go for Logistics. Practice, practice, practice. Every little bit counts, and when it all adds up, it turns a failure into an easy victory. But, yes, luck matters.

 

[Machiavelli24]

I always read people in this forum talking about archer/cbow/xbow rushes, but it seems to me that those units are too fragile and can't survive mounted units nor city ranged bombardment. And most screenshots I've seen shows lots of them and only them! None or very few meele units.

Comp bow and xbow attacks are fundamentally timing attacks. By skewing your army composition to be dominated by one unit class you maximize the jump up in army power when you complete the tech that upgrades that unit class (ei: construction, machinery). The timing window starts when you do your mass upgrade and generally ends* when your units a vulnerable to getting one-hit-killed (by city attack or enemy units).

*Having +1 range can extend the timing window quite a bit.