So I posted this questions "How to fast tech to optics in an isolated start" to both ChatGPT and Deepseek.
Here is ChatGPT's response:
In **Civilization IV**, getting to **Optics** quickly in an *isolated start* (i.e., you’re alone on your landmass and need to meet other civs for trade) is a classic challenge. The key is balancing **research speed**, **Great Scientists**, and **beelining the right tech path** while not overbuilding unnecessary stuff. Here’s a proven approach:
---
###
1. Define the Goal
Optics unlocks **Caravels**, which let you make first contact overseas. Early contact = **tech trading bonanza** (even on higher difficulties, the AIs will often give you a lot for what you have).
---
###
2. The Tech Path (Typical Fast Beeline)
The most streamlined path is:
1. **Worker techs + food** → Agriculture / Fishing / Animal Husbandry / Mining / Bronze Working (depending on your start).
* You still need to grow and improve tiles efficiently.
2. **Writing** → Libraries (for Great Scientists and research boost).
3. **Mathematics** (optional via trade or bulb enabler).
4. **Code of Laws** or **Currency** (for economy stability if needed).
5. **Compass** + **Machinery** (both prereqs for Optics).
6. **Optics**.
**Key shortcut**: You can use **Great Scientists to bulb** along the way:
* 1st GS: **Academy** in capital (usually best, unless extremely short-term focused).
* Later GS: **Bulb Mathematics → Compass → part of Machinery** (depending on tech path and what you’ve researched).
---
### 🏛 3. Priorities in Isolation
* **Libraries everywhere** early to hire Scientists.
* **Great Lighthouse** (if coastal with lots of islands): massive trade boost once Caravels find AIs.
* **Colossus** can also be strong in water-heavy maps.
* **Oracle into Metal Casting** → jumpstart Machinery line faster.
---
###
4. Balancing Economy
Since you can’t trade techs until contact:
* **Cottages** (if you have rivers/grasslands).
* Or **Specialist Economy** with lots of scientists, especially if you’re Philosophical.
* **Currency + Code of Laws** often needed to keep economy afloat before pushing Optics.
---
###
5. Execution Tips
* Don’t waste time on military you don’t need—barb defense only.
* Don’t chase religions or wonders unless they directly support economy/scientists.
* Keep cities compact to reduce maintenance pre-Currency/CoL.
* Once you launch your first Caravels, **send them in opposite directions** to maximize odds of circumnavigating (bonus naval movement = huge).
---
###
Example Timeline (on Normal Speed, isolated Prince–Emperor start)
* **0–40 turns**: Worker techs + Writing.
* **\~Turn 60**: Libraries up, running scientists.
* **\~Turn 90–110**: Machinery/Compass done (via bulbs + research).
* **\~Turn 120–130**: Optics reached, first Caravels launched.
* **After Contact**: Trade aggressively — you’ll often backfill all the early religious/cultural techs in a single turn.
---
Question for you: do you want me to give you a **step-by-step sample tech order** (like: Agriculture → Mining → BW → Writing → …) assuming a generic coastal capital, or would you like me to give you **different variants** depending on whether you want a cottage economy vs. specialist economy?
Here is Deepseek's response:
Of course. A fast tech to Optics in an isolated start (no other civs on your landmass) in Civilization 4 is a classic and powerful strategy. The goal is to be the first to meet all the other civilizations, enabling lucrative tech trading and setting you up for a dominant mid-game.
Here is a detailed, step-by-step guide to achieve this.
### The Core Concept
You are alone. This means:
* **No early tech trading.** You must research everything yourself.
* **No early war.** You can focus almost entirely on economy and infrastructure.
* **Barbs are your only early threat.** You must manage this.
* **The reward:** When you finally meet everyone, you can trade your monopoly techs (like Optics, Calendar resources, etc.) for all the basic techs they have, giving you a massive technological leap.
---
### Step 1: The Opening (4000 BC - ~2000 BC)
**Tech Path:**
1. **Fishing:** If you have seafood (clams, crabs, fish). Allows work boats and growth.
2. **Mining:** Essential for improving hills and prepping for Bronze Working.
3. **Bronze Working (BW):** **This is non-negotiable.** You need it for:
* **Chopping forests:** This is your primary way of speeding up early production.
* **Revealing Copper:** Your sole defense against barbarians. If you have no copper, you must go for Archery, which is a significant delay.
4. **Pottery:** Allows Granaries, which are the key to rapid growth and whipping.
**Build Order (Capital):**
* **Worker** first if you have a food resource that doesn't require improving (e.g., pigs/corn with Agriculture). Otherwise...
* **Work Boat** first if you start with seafood.
* **Warrior** (to scout your immediate area and then garrison for happiness).
* **Worker** (if you didn't build him first).
* Use your first worker to improve your high-food tiles first.
**Early Priorities:**
* **Scout your island thoroughly** with your initial warrior. Find all the resources, good city sites, and potential barbarian spawn points.
* **Settle your second city** aggressively, ideally near Copper if it's not in your capital's borders. This city should also have strong food potential. Use your first worker to chop the forest for the settler.
---
### Step 2: Economy and Expansion (~2000 BC - 1 AD)
**Tech Path (after BW/Pottery):**
1. **Writing:** Enables Libraries.
2. **Mysticism -> Meditation -> Priesthood:** This is a common detour to build **The Oracle** wonder.
3. **Code of Laws (CoL):** This is your **Oracle free tech**. This is the key move. CoL gives you Courthouses (for maintenance) and, more importantly, enables **Civil Service**.
4. **Mathematics:** For cheaper chops and construction of The Colossus (if coastal).
5. **Currency:** **Your #1 economic priority.** It provides +1 trade route per city and allows building Wealth, which is a huge boost to your tech rate. Get this immediately after CoL if you skip The Oracle.
6. **Sailing -> Masonry:** For connecting coastal cities and building The Great Lighthouse (TGL), if possible.
7. **Calendar:** To hook up any calendar resources (Dye, Silk, Sugar, Spices, etc.) for extra health/happiness and, crucially, trade value later.
8. **Metal Casting -> Machinery -> Optics:** Your final destination.
**Build Order & Strategy:**
* **Build The Oracle:** In your capital or a high-production city. Use forest chops to complete it quickly. The target date is usually between 2000-1200 BC. **Take Code of Laws as your free tech.**
* **Build The Great Lighthouse (TGL):** If you are on a coast with multiple coastal cities, this wonder is game-breaking for an isolated economy. The extra trade routes are pure gold.
* **Expand to ~4-5 cities:** Don't over-expand! Without foreign trade routes, maintenance will crush you. Your cities must be well-placed with strong food and resources. Use Courthouses (from CoL) to manage maintenance.
* **Specialize your cities:**
* **Capital/Bureaucracy City:** High food/production, your main science center.
* **GP Farm:** A city with lots of food resources/farms to run Scientists and generate Great Scientists.
* **Production City:** For building units and wonders.
* **Great People:** Use your first Great Scientist to build an Academy in your capital. This is a massive science boost. The next ones can be used to bulb parts of the Optics path (e.g., a GS can bulb Mathematics -> Philosophy, but you want to save them for later or use for Academies).
---
### Step 3: The Final Sprint to Optics (1 AD - ~600 AD)
**Tech Path: Metal Casting -> Machinery -> Optics**
**Strategy:**
* **Switch to Organized Religion/Caste System:** Use your first Great Prophet (likely from The Oracle) to found your religion and switch to Organized Religion for cheaper building construction. Later, a temporary switch to Caste System can allow you to run multiple Scientists to generate Great People faster.
* **Whip and Chop:** Use slavery to whip out Courthouses, Libraries, and Forges. Use your workers to chop any remaining forests into key buildings or research.
* **Micro-Manage Tiles:** Ensure your scientists are working the best possible tiles for maximum beakers. Work all your scientist specialist slots.
* **Build Caravels:** The moment Optics is in, start building Caravels in your coastal cities. You need **at least 2, preferably 3 or 4**. Send them in opposite directions to map the world as fast as possible.
---
### Key Considerations & Tips
* **Leader Choice:** The best leaders for this are **Financial** and **Organized**.
* **Financial (e.g., Elizabeth, Darius, Willem):** Coast tiles become 2F/2C, which is incredible with TGL.
* **Organized (e.g., Augustus, Darius):** Halved civic upkeep and courthouse cost is a huge economic saver.
* **Top Pick: Darius of Persia (Financial/Organized)** is arguably the perfect isolated start leader.
* **Barbarians:** Your copper/archer city should be placed to block barbarians from entering your core territory. A well-placed hilltop city with a unit can act as a choke point.
* **If You Miss The Oracle:** Don't panic. Your tech path becomes more rigid: **Pottery -> Writing -> Mathematics -> Currency -> Code of Laws**. It will be slower, but the principle remains the same. Currency is your lifeline.
* **Upon Meeting AI:** **IMMEDIATELY PAUSE.** Check the F4 tech screen. See what everyone has. Trade your world map and Calendar resources for their basic techs (Monarchy, Construction, Iron Working, etc.). You can often get 5-6 techs for Optics and your map if it's still a monopoly. This trade window is your payoff for the entire strategy.
### Idealized Timeline (on Noble/Prince)
* **~2000 BC:** Oracle completes, Code of Laws acquired.
* **~1000 BC:** The Great Lighthouse completes (if going for it).
* **~500 BC:** Currency researched.
* **~1 AD:** 4-5 cities settled, economy stabilized.
* **~400-600 AD:** Optics researched, Caravels set sail.
This strategy requires careful balancing of expansion, economy, and wonder-building. Practice makes perfect, but executing it well is one of the most satisfying things to do in Civ 4. Good luck!
Personally, I am more impressed with Deepseek's response. Thoughts?
Here is ChatGPT's response:
In **Civilization IV**, getting to **Optics** quickly in an *isolated start* (i.e., you’re alone on your landmass and need to meet other civs for trade) is a classic challenge. The key is balancing **research speed**, **Great Scientists**, and **beelining the right tech path** while not overbuilding unnecessary stuff. Here’s a proven approach:
---
###
1. Define the GoalOptics unlocks **Caravels**, which let you make first contact overseas. Early contact = **tech trading bonanza** (even on higher difficulties, the AIs will often give you a lot for what you have).
---
###
2. The Tech Path (Typical Fast Beeline)The most streamlined path is:
1. **Worker techs + food** → Agriculture / Fishing / Animal Husbandry / Mining / Bronze Working (depending on your start).
* You still need to grow and improve tiles efficiently.
2. **Writing** → Libraries (for Great Scientists and research boost).
3. **Mathematics** (optional via trade or bulb enabler).
4. **Code of Laws** or **Currency** (for economy stability if needed).
5. **Compass** + **Machinery** (both prereqs for Optics).
6. **Optics**.
**Key shortcut**: You can use **Great Scientists to bulb** along the way:* 1st GS: **Academy** in capital (usually best, unless extremely short-term focused).
* Later GS: **Bulb Mathematics → Compass → part of Machinery** (depending on tech path and what you’ve researched).
---
### 🏛 3. Priorities in Isolation
* **Libraries everywhere** early to hire Scientists.
* **Great Lighthouse** (if coastal with lots of islands): massive trade boost once Caravels find AIs.
* **Colossus** can also be strong in water-heavy maps.
* **Oracle into Metal Casting** → jumpstart Machinery line faster.
---
###
4. Balancing EconomySince you can’t trade techs until contact:
* **Cottages** (if you have rivers/grasslands).
* Or **Specialist Economy** with lots of scientists, especially if you’re Philosophical.
* **Currency + Code of Laws** often needed to keep economy afloat before pushing Optics.
---
###
5. Execution Tips* Don’t waste time on military you don’t need—barb defense only.
* Don’t chase religions or wonders unless they directly support economy/scientists.
* Keep cities compact to reduce maintenance pre-Currency/CoL.
* Once you launch your first Caravels, **send them in opposite directions** to maximize odds of circumnavigating (bonus naval movement = huge).
---
###
Example Timeline (on Normal Speed, isolated Prince–Emperor start)* **0–40 turns**: Worker techs + Writing.
* **\~Turn 60**: Libraries up, running scientists.
* **\~Turn 90–110**: Machinery/Compass done (via bulbs + research).
* **\~Turn 120–130**: Optics reached, first Caravels launched.
* **After Contact**: Trade aggressively — you’ll often backfill all the early religious/cultural techs in a single turn.
---
Question for you: do you want me to give you a **step-by-step sample tech order** (like: Agriculture → Mining → BW → Writing → …) assuming a generic coastal capital, or would you like me to give you **different variants** depending on whether you want a cottage economy vs. specialist economy?Here is Deepseek's response:
Of course. A fast tech to Optics in an isolated start (no other civs on your landmass) in Civilization 4 is a classic and powerful strategy. The goal is to be the first to meet all the other civilizations, enabling lucrative tech trading and setting you up for a dominant mid-game.
Here is a detailed, step-by-step guide to achieve this.
### The Core Concept
You are alone. This means:
* **No early tech trading.** You must research everything yourself.
* **No early war.** You can focus almost entirely on economy and infrastructure.
* **Barbs are your only early threat.** You must manage this.
* **The reward:** When you finally meet everyone, you can trade your monopoly techs (like Optics, Calendar resources, etc.) for all the basic techs they have, giving you a massive technological leap.
---
### Step 1: The Opening (4000 BC - ~2000 BC)
**Tech Path:**
1. **Fishing:** If you have seafood (clams, crabs, fish). Allows work boats and growth.
2. **Mining:** Essential for improving hills and prepping for Bronze Working.
3. **Bronze Working (BW):** **This is non-negotiable.** You need it for:
* **Chopping forests:** This is your primary way of speeding up early production.
* **Revealing Copper:** Your sole defense against barbarians. If you have no copper, you must go for Archery, which is a significant delay.
4. **Pottery:** Allows Granaries, which are the key to rapid growth and whipping.
**Build Order (Capital):**
* **Worker** first if you have a food resource that doesn't require improving (e.g., pigs/corn with Agriculture). Otherwise...
* **Work Boat** first if you start with seafood.
* **Warrior** (to scout your immediate area and then garrison for happiness).
* **Worker** (if you didn't build him first).
* Use your first worker to improve your high-food tiles first.
**Early Priorities:**
* **Scout your island thoroughly** with your initial warrior. Find all the resources, good city sites, and potential barbarian spawn points.
* **Settle your second city** aggressively, ideally near Copper if it's not in your capital's borders. This city should also have strong food potential. Use your first worker to chop the forest for the settler.
---
### Step 2: Economy and Expansion (~2000 BC - 1 AD)
**Tech Path (after BW/Pottery):**
1. **Writing:** Enables Libraries.
2. **Mysticism -> Meditation -> Priesthood:** This is a common detour to build **The Oracle** wonder.
3. **Code of Laws (CoL):** This is your **Oracle free tech**. This is the key move. CoL gives you Courthouses (for maintenance) and, more importantly, enables **Civil Service**.
4. **Mathematics:** For cheaper chops and construction of The Colossus (if coastal).
5. **Currency:** **Your #1 economic priority.** It provides +1 trade route per city and allows building Wealth, which is a huge boost to your tech rate. Get this immediately after CoL if you skip The Oracle.
6. **Sailing -> Masonry:** For connecting coastal cities and building The Great Lighthouse (TGL), if possible.
7. **Calendar:** To hook up any calendar resources (Dye, Silk, Sugar, Spices, etc.) for extra health/happiness and, crucially, trade value later.
8. **Metal Casting -> Machinery -> Optics:** Your final destination.
**Build Order & Strategy:**
* **Build The Oracle:** In your capital or a high-production city. Use forest chops to complete it quickly. The target date is usually between 2000-1200 BC. **Take Code of Laws as your free tech.**
* **Build The Great Lighthouse (TGL):** If you are on a coast with multiple coastal cities, this wonder is game-breaking for an isolated economy. The extra trade routes are pure gold.
* **Expand to ~4-5 cities:** Don't over-expand! Without foreign trade routes, maintenance will crush you. Your cities must be well-placed with strong food and resources. Use Courthouses (from CoL) to manage maintenance.
* **Specialize your cities:**
* **Capital/Bureaucracy City:** High food/production, your main science center.
* **GP Farm:** A city with lots of food resources/farms to run Scientists and generate Great Scientists.
* **Production City:** For building units and wonders.
* **Great People:** Use your first Great Scientist to build an Academy in your capital. This is a massive science boost. The next ones can be used to bulb parts of the Optics path (e.g., a GS can bulb Mathematics -> Philosophy, but you want to save them for later or use for Academies).
---
### Step 3: The Final Sprint to Optics (1 AD - ~600 AD)
**Tech Path: Metal Casting -> Machinery -> Optics**
**Strategy:**
* **Switch to Organized Religion/Caste System:** Use your first Great Prophet (likely from The Oracle) to found your religion and switch to Organized Religion for cheaper building construction. Later, a temporary switch to Caste System can allow you to run multiple Scientists to generate Great People faster.
* **Whip and Chop:** Use slavery to whip out Courthouses, Libraries, and Forges. Use your workers to chop any remaining forests into key buildings or research.
* **Micro-Manage Tiles:** Ensure your scientists are working the best possible tiles for maximum beakers. Work all your scientist specialist slots.
* **Build Caravels:** The moment Optics is in, start building Caravels in your coastal cities. You need **at least 2, preferably 3 or 4**. Send them in opposite directions to map the world as fast as possible.
---
### Key Considerations & Tips
* **Leader Choice:** The best leaders for this are **Financial** and **Organized**.
* **Financial (e.g., Elizabeth, Darius, Willem):** Coast tiles become 2F/2C, which is incredible with TGL.
* **Organized (e.g., Augustus, Darius):** Halved civic upkeep and courthouse cost is a huge economic saver.
* **Top Pick: Darius of Persia (Financial/Organized)** is arguably the perfect isolated start leader.
* **Barbarians:** Your copper/archer city should be placed to block barbarians from entering your core territory. A well-placed hilltop city with a unit can act as a choke point.
* **If You Miss The Oracle:** Don't panic. Your tech path becomes more rigid: **Pottery -> Writing -> Mathematics -> Currency -> Code of Laws**. It will be slower, but the principle remains the same. Currency is your lifeline.
* **Upon Meeting AI:** **IMMEDIATELY PAUSE.** Check the F4 tech screen. See what everyone has. Trade your world map and Calendar resources for their basic techs (Monarchy, Construction, Iron Working, etc.). You can often get 5-6 techs for Optics and your map if it's still a monopoly. This trade window is your payoff for the entire strategy.
### Idealized Timeline (on Noble/Prince)
* **~2000 BC:** Oracle completes, Code of Laws acquired.
* **~1000 BC:** The Great Lighthouse completes (if going for it).
* **~500 BC:** Currency researched.
* **~1 AD:** 4-5 cities settled, economy stabilized.
* **~400-600 AD:** Optics researched, Caravels set sail.
This strategy requires careful balancing of expansion, economy, and wonder-building. Practice makes perfect, but executing it well is one of the most satisfying things to do in Civ 4. Good luck!
Personally, I am more impressed with Deepseek's response. Thoughts?
