I was in th Crusader King 3 discord talking about the things I disliked and wanted in a Crusader game, and I was told, what I wanted sounded a lot like Civilization. In fact, I think they are correct, to a degree. But the thing is, I HATE sandboxes. I loved Civ 2 but only for the highly detailed, highly crafted, highly structured scenarios that people made for that game. I don't begrudge a base game for being sanboxy, but I want a historical simulator where I'm fighting history itself not just my AI opponents. So I enjoyed things like the Fading Lights and Outremer (the scenrio itself was bad but the map and cities and such were CHOICE). Mostly what I want are way to play laterally, which Paradox Games have become worse at over time. I want to create a free peasantry in the middle ages, abolish slavery in the ancient world, establish universal education or something akin to it, or create a more religiously tolerant society than what was expected of the period, and of course, pay the price for such a thing and do the balancing acts. I want to create legacies to leave the end of the game. In CK2 ou do all kinds of things that should be monuments to your legacy, like find artifacts or produce great works, or invent eyeglasses, but there's no way you can see the long term ramifications of these because there aren't. Your monarch can prove Heliocentrism as early as the eighth century, and it does nothing to affect even the fluff of the game. I haven't played a Civ game since 2, except I bought 5 and I saw no reason to play it. I hated the city defense dynamic and I saw exactly zero of the kind of scenarios I want. I don't want a sandbox where you are self directed. I wnt highly detailed historical games that reward you and punish you based on if you take certain cities, build certain units, go on quests. Like even the vanilla Midgard Scenario from Test of Time, had wonderful quests, like the sacking of Rot, buying the services of Jacko-lanterns and Ents and slaying Dragons. I just wanted a LOT more of that and a way more developed world. In any case, I want to study the mechanics of Civilization as it developed to understand the lateral possibilities other than conquering and smash and paint the world. What would be the game to best understand all of this? Civ 4, the last quare tile version considered the pinnacle of original Civilization design or something like 5 or 6. And does any the post Civ 2 games have detailed, event-driven historical scenarios?