Conditional spawns (1.18)

[Nyayr]

I had a question, the new nations you cannot see the core/historical conquest maps off in the maps' folder (unless there is in game a folder too?).

Second more important, what new nations now have conditional spawns? Playing the Toltec for example, you have the same city as the Aztecs for example, do you just 'vanish' when you're the human player when the Aztecs spawn? I'd like a long Toltec run, but not get usurped later on.

I know Byzantium used to not spawn if Rome was Solid or when the Greeks existed etc, as an example. Though these nations are new.

 

[a pen-dragon]

I did play a Toltec game until the Dutch spawn without the Aztec spawning. I do not know the condition for the Aztecs not to spawn.

 

[Nyayr]

I assumed it would, require the Toltecs to collapse for Aztecs to merge, but was not 100% so thanks.

I'm not sure how to see flip zones any more, before there was a map folder with it.

 

[Dracosolon]

There was a stability map in the WorldBuilder but Leoreth removed it, I think because it was buggy and fixing it was low priority.

 

[TsimTsigal]

I assumed it would, require the Toltecs to collapse for Aztecs to merge, but was not 100% so thanks.

I'm not sure how to see flip zones any more, before there was a map folder with it.

Stability and other maps can be extracted from Python and (probably) .csv files, iirc they are coded fairly simply (as either matrices or arrays of pairs of rectangles corners). It's possible to extract them, but i think the real version we don't have cool stability maps yet is that the current version is very much work in progress (some issues are already surfacing, like weird Rus'-Russia flip and Byzantine metahorror core).

Iirc of all new civs only the Aztecs (which aren't new) are conditional. Moreover, git updates contain an intriguing line about impossibility to trigger both Toltec and Aztec conquerors, which implies it's possible to have them both at the same time.

 

[Bruhmoment]

Stability and other maps can be extracted from Python and (probably) .csv files, iirc they are coded fairly simply (as either matrices or arrays of pairs of rectangles corners). It's possible to extract them, but i think the real version we don't have cool stability maps yet is that the current version is very much work in progress (some issues are already surfacing, like weird Rus'-Russia flip and Byzantine metahorror core).

Iirc of all new civs only the Aztecs (which aren't new) are conditional. Moreover, git updates contain an intriguing line about impossibility to trigger both Toltec and Aztec conquerors, which implies it's possible to have them both at the same time.

Byzantine metahorror core... have not heard of that before lmao, what would that be
from my personal experience I once triggered the toltec conquerors (toltecs collapsed) and then the aztecs literally spawned right in front of my face (no conquerer event)

 

[TsimTsigal]

Byzantine metahorror core... have not heard of that before lmao, what would that be

Well now, I'm not gonna talk about Judy the leaked Byzantine core map. In fact, we're not gonna talk about Byzantine core at all, we're gonna keep her out of it.

 

[Bruhmoment]

Well now, I'm not gonna talk about Judy the leaked Byzantine core map. In fact, we're not gonna talk about Byzantine core at all, we're gonna keep her out of it.

I see. Which sources should I not look at so I WON'T find it? Nevermind, I found it, talk about having a small core

 

[Bruhmoment]

I assumed it would, require the Toltecs to collapse for Aztecs to merge, but was not 100% so thanks.

I'm not sure how to see flip zones any more, before there was a map folder with it.

I played as the toltecs till the Aztec spawn, and apparently the aztecs DO spawn (and literally get your core city, like WTH ). In that game I vassalized the maya and was on unstable stability

 

[Jesusocalypse]

I had a Babylon game where Byzantines didn't spawn until like 1200-1300 or something, even though Rome was collapsing or collapsed by the time they would normally spawn. Made me curious what the Byzantine conditions are.

 

[Bruhmoment]

I had a Babylon game where Byzantines didn't spawn until like 1200-1300 or something, even though Rome was collapsing or collapsed by the time they would normally spawn. Made me curious what the Byzantine conditions are.

Was greece alive?

 

[Jesusocalypse]

Nope, the area was independent or barbs from the collapse of Rome until the spawn of Byzantium.

EDIT: Also, weird thing that hasn't happened in my other games, when Rome collapsed in that game Catholicism immediately spawned in the independent city of Rome. Maybe that had an impact?

 

[TsimTsigal]

Nope, the area was independent or barbs from the collapse of Rome until the spawn of Byzantium.

EDIT: Also, weird thing that hasn't happened in my other games, when Rome collapsed in that game Catholicism immediately spawned in the independent city of Rome. Maybe that had an impact?

Rome has to be alive for Byzantine to spawn. Amusingly enough, Rome DOESN'T have to be alive for Byzantine to respawn; respawns don't check if the civ ever existed, either iirc.

 

[Apple111111]

Does anyone know if the Ottomans still have a conditional spawn? I didn’t let the Turks take a single city in my Byzantine game a while back, and I also vassalized the Turks super early in the game. Even still, they managed to spawn.

I even checked the city history at the end of the game and they never took a city. One thing I found weird is that I had an option to liberate a Persian independent city to them when I conquered it.

Has anyone managed to prevent the Ottomans spawning??

 

[Tao paï paï]

Does anyone know if the Ottomans still have a conditional spawn? I didn’t let the Turks take a single city in my Byzantine game a while back, and I also vassalized the Turks super early in the game. Even still, they managed to spawn.

I even checked the city history at the end of the game and they never took a city. One thing I found weird is that I had an option to liberate a Persian independent city to them when I conquered it.

Has anyone managed to prevent the Ottomans spawning??

The Ottomans always spawn if the human player controls a city in their birth area, even if the Turks didn’t manage to conquer a city in ME, since one of the last updates in 1.17.

 

[Apple111111]

The Ottomans always spawn if the human player controls a city in their birth area, even if the Turks didn’t manage to conquer a city in ME, since one of the last updates in 1.17.

Ah, that’s frustrating.

 

[Logoncal]

It's an annoying mechanic, but unlike the AI where they can easily lose a city to the Turks and one breath of the Ottomans they explode, the player snowball hard and a conditionally Ottoman spawn would make a Byz player just runaway from everybody else.
If the turkic conquest was made harder, the player only forced spawn could be ruled out i guess. As of now, you can easily deter the Turks from the Ottoman birth area.

 

[AOS9001]

I'd rather deal with repelling a much more difficult Seljuk conquest than have the Ottomans pop up in my heartland after 200 years of hard-won Turk-free peace, to be honest.

 

[Logoncal]

Me too, tbh. The current BS forced spawn is just not fun.