CONE1-diety 5CC modified

[gozpel]

Dang it!

I've been so busy, so I forgot about this game. Shame on me.

First, great turns conehead.
Ironworks!
I need more info to see where we're going, and the save is sufficient for that.

I'm ready to go, but would like a couple of ideas.

 

[conehead234]

I thought i posted the save?

 

[gozpel]

Originally posted by conehead234
I thought i posted the save?

Yes you did, Bubba!
Tou're so distracted sometimes, and I love it

I merely said it like that so I can look at the save before I play.

Yeesh dude, you should know me by now?

 

[denyd]

a quick recap from the wandering bard:

We are currently at peace with everyone, including Hammurabi, may he rest in peace.

We are ahead of Spain in tech, even with England, but trail the other island by 1 or 2 each

We've got a monopoly of coal on this island, are about to complete our Iron Works and are only 4-5 turns from the Forbidden Palace

I'm not sure of how we stand in military compared to our neighbors.

We are coming up fast on a couple decision points.

On the military front:

1. Attack Spain and go for 2-3 cities (the east)?
2. Attack Spain and go for 4-5 cities (the west)?
3. Attack Spain and go for 7-8 cities (all below size 12)
4. Attack England and go for 4 cities (the west)?
5. Attack England and go for 6-8 cities (the west & nearby north)
6. Stay at peace, push ahead in tech and wait for tanks

On the science front:

1. Abandon printing press
2. Hurry printing press
3. Keep the same pace on printing press

and once we get printing press

1. Go for democracy (AI will trade a lot for this)
2. Go for medicine and the scientific method
3. Go for electricity and replaceable part


We don't yet have a Forbidden Palace and Pasagarde will be able to build it very quickly. We will probably want to add the Military Academy to Pasagarde to get to 4 armies and then add the Pentagon. We should be able to get 4-5 cavalry armies (with 4 cavs each) on the map. That should be able to run over England or Spain when we are ready. If we get a Great Leader during the war, we should jump our capital to the AI capital to lower the flip risk and boost production.

My choices on the above are:

Military: #5 - Move the slow attackers to the west and go for those 4 English cities on our peninsula. Move the bulk of our defenders to the north to protect our border cities. Use our cavalry to take the cities east & west of London (pincer movement) until only London is left, then move in for the kill with all forces. Be sure to get Spain for an ally (don't want another 2-front war). This needs to be done before England gets an MPP with anyone (particularly Spain).

Science: Either #1 or #2 (or buy it) and if we get it #1 to trade it or # 2 for TOE.

Just my 2 cents (adjusted for inflation)

 

[grahamiam]

nice layout, denyd if you don't mind, i'll add my cent and a half

for sci., i like #1 if we are spending 10% on PP. the ai's gonna beat us so no need to continue. we need the money to buy techs.

for war, i like #5 as well and concentrate on the north, where the production is located. western cities will be for the slowpoke units and northern cities won't be as corrupt once captured. as i mentioned earlier, england seems to have a better chance at drawing someone from the other continent into the war. we can then ally with one of the others and let them go at it. this should give them something to do other than research however, this will be risky as we can expect riflemen once the war starts. should be fun!

for tech trades/future research, imho, i suggest going for sci method via electricity/med's (not sure you can do it otherwise). with the iron works, ToE should be in the bag, thus giving us replaceable parts and whatever else we decide we need.

 

[gozpel]

I will keep the PP research at minimum and the idea of going at England first sounds best.

That means I will have the joyful task of moving all those units from south to the north

I got it and will play soon.

 

[conehead234]

Just to tell you the AI has already researched PP.

 

[gozpel]

The Save

We are really in a jam here.

Pre-turn - Everything is good, no changes.

I get buy PP from China for WM and 307g.
I give Aztecs 510g and WM for their spices.

Research Industrialization with a scientist, luzes down to zero.
We make 180gpt.

800AD - Pasgadae Iron Works -> FP in 5t.
Yikes, China completes Theory of Evolution!

Mine a irrigated tile near Pasgadae to cut a turn on FP.
Change a couple of cities to courts.

Talk to China to renew the Ivory deal, which ended IT.
They know Democracy and want 2430g plus 136 gpt. I settle for Ivory for 431g and 1 gpt.
The gpt deal makes him polite.

810AD - Spain have around 50 units in our territory now, I move our units for protection purposes. We can't wage any war against England with half of Spain wandering around.

820AD - England wants to renew ROP, I decline and hope Spain are going at them soon. Why else would Spain have (I counted them) 67 units in our territory?
The saltpeter deal with England ends in 4 turns.

I start moving troops towards English borders. Opportunistic as I am

830AD - IT - Spain wants MPP, if we pay 4 gpt. I trade WM instead.

840AD - FP finished, we gain an extra 30 gpt.

Argh! England is building Suffrage. And of course everyone worth mentioning knows it.

Not quite, we can get something out of a trade.
Buy Electricity from China for 2003g and 60 gpt.
Industrialization from Aztecs for Electricity, WM and 114g.
I give Egypt Electricity, coal and 100g for Medicine

I was hoping Sanitation was left alone, but no luck there.

Sucks, can't do any other deals that helps us, England knows Sanitation and China is way ahead. If we're going at England I don't want any turn deals.
I could give Spain 2 techs for Communism, but I don't want that.

Changing unit builds to cavs, we won't win by defending.

850AD - Spain moves their troops towards the western region it seems. They also created some magic during the IT, they got all the 3 techs we was up on them? There was noone for them to trade with, I'm stumped.

860AD - Right, Spain declare war on the English!
A few civs knows Democracy now, I buy it from China for dyes, incense and 38 gpt.
I switch government and we draw 6 turns.

Erh, we're losing 72 gpt due to the deals and we only havce 242g, I hire a horde of taxmen to get it down to -36 gpt.

870AD - I'll play through the anarchy turns

880AD - Dang it, the saltpeter deal with England is over and I do not renew it. There's another 20 gpt I have to fix with taxmen. We probably lose some stuff soon, but I get it down to -31 gpt. We lose a citizen in Cambridge, the useless island city.
I will have to check every city every turn to pull this through.

890AD - 3 turns to go, we will just make it I think.

900AD - England wins most of the fights.

910AD - More MM, one turn to go -38 gpt with 38g in the kitty.

920AD - Arabia joins England against Spain.

We are now a Democracy, fix all MM-ing and what do we get?
193 gpt with a lone scientist on Corporation. That's ok and we have better workers now

I give Monty Democracy for Sanitation and 18g.

China is the run-away train, they know RP and stuff we never heard of, I guess .

We can sell our extra coal to Spain for 61 gpt plus change or buy Scientific Method for Coal and 55 gpt and change. No deal.

Ongoing deals:
Spices from Aztecs - 7 turns
Coal to Egypt - 12 turns
Ivory from China - we pay 1 gpt - 8 turns
We are paying China 60 gpt for 12 turns more
We are giving China dyes, incense and 38 gpt for 14 turns

Rushbuy courthouses to lift production and commerce!

We have the opportunity to mess with Spain very soon, I moved our "stack" of 20 units to Leeds, anticipating a war with England.

 

[conehead234]

Good job. We need to find a way to slow down china. Any ideas?

 

[denyd]

A quick recap of the order (after a long weekend)

Conehead234
Gozpel - resting after a very long turn set
Ankka - UP
Denyd - On Deck
grahamiam

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by conehead234
Good job. We need to find a way to slow down china. Any ideas?

this is probably a dumb idea, but could we declare on the arabs and ally china vs the them? can the arabs damage them or will china just swallow them whole? being a democracy will probably make this idea's execution worse than it sounds but we really need the other continent to get into a furball and I don't think spain has the resourses to gain allies.

 

[denyd]

It would be nice to setup a dog pile on China, but I'm afraid they might end up taking over the entire other island and I don't think we've got anything to gain allies with anyway.

You idea of declaring on the Arabs might work, but I think we've got a deal going with them and again what to we have that China would take to ally against them.

What I'm hoping for is a sucessful campaign against the English (goodby Lizzy) with GL for a Palace Jump. Then catching the Spanish troops in the open (on their way home) and wiping them out. Following that up the a sucessful campaign vs Isabella, with a GL in the process. Using our new production base to beg, buy or steal our way to the Modern Age. Catch a break and get Fission as our tech, rush the UN and win the vote (yes, I'm an optimist).

 

[conehead234]

Or I always wanted to try this but what if we invade china but we don't capture the cities. We just pillage and bombard the country side and cities and cause as much damage as we can. If we bombard the cities enough we can kill off china's population and destroy their buildings. It will slow them down, i think.

 

[denyd]

The only problem with declaring on China, they have the ablility to get Spain & England to attack us with their extra gold and tech, then were back in that two front war problem. If we took out England and weakened Spain first that might work, but I'm not sure we can wait that long.

 

[gozpel]

Our best chance is to take control of our own continent as soon as possible.

We could be cheaky and buy SM from Spain for gpt and then demand them to leave our territory.

The problem is that we don't have a very big army, but it could be worth a try.

 

[denyd]

I was thinking we'd tag along on the Spanish invasion of England and grab a couple of western cities while they took on the English core (no MA just being at war at the same time). Once Spain had weakened England we'd move our troops to northern Spain and declare on them and try to grab the less than size 12 cities and go for a quick peace. Our advantage right now is speed. With rails we can move from one from to the other in one turn, where our attackers need 2-3 turns to get into position to fight.

I agree that our home island is the priority. Once it's ours, a whole new set of options are in place.

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by gozpel
The problem is that we don't have a very big army, but it could be worth a try.

now that we've revolted to democracy, can we get 10-15 more cavalry fairly quickly (say 7T?). we have only 20, right? bahh, maybe England is out of the question and we need to get on with it against Spain, moving the palace in the process.

i hate this yo-yo-ing of units but i can't see anything better right now. if we can line up thier units in our territory and then get them to declare, we should be able to knock out thier offense and then go get thier land, even with the limited number of units we have. i think england will have to be left for the tanks, if we last that long blasting chinese land with arty sounds good, but will have to wait for later.

 

[gozpel]

All this game China has provided us with vital techs for a much cheaper price than any other civ would give us.

Like the 60 gpt deal was around 85 gpt from Arabs, and it's been like that all the time. China has to wait, I kinda like the idea of stealing techs, but we need heaps of gold for that and I want to research the bottom path, until we got Hoovers.

But I think we can squeeze out a bunch of cavs fairly soon and then we should get to war with Spain.

 

[grahamiam]

yes, i agree. we leave messing with china for later and get on with it against spain. china may even be helpful against england later. it should be worth noting that if we can get Mao to declare war on someone, he will probably get out of democracy to wage the war.

 

[conehead234]

Ok maybe not china yet. If we can take out Spain. We will be saved from a 2 front war.