Conquest 04: First Spoiler

Capt Buttkick said:
Slaves under an industrious civ work at 75% of normal (non-industrious) worker speed in C3C. Are you sure you didn't look at slave workers under anarchy or something? :confused:

Just doubled checked:

In regular games, a non-industrious worker on a grassland takes:

3 turns to Road
4 turns to Irrigate
6 turns to Mine

With Industrious:
2 turns to Road
3 turns to Irrigate
4 turns to Mine.

Definitely a 50% speed increase.

While I haven't check what slaves can do in other games, in this game, they definately take:

6 turns to Road
8 to Irrigate
12 to Mine

Which makes them 1/3 the speed of Mayan workers.

(Edit: and a whopping 48 to clear Jungle. I have a stack of 66 to cut, road, & mine all in one turn)
 
Noticed something later in this game with workers and industrious trait.

Seems like after you get replaceable parts the slaves gets the industrious trait (aswell as getting their speed doubled)

Pre replacable parts (in republic):
to build a mine on grassland, or railroading on grassland;
slave : 12 turns
worker : 4 turns
48 slaves to clear jungle

after replacable parts (still in republic):
to build mine on grassland, or railroading on grassland;
slave : 4 turns
worker : 2 turns
16 slaves to clear jungle

in other words after you get replacable parts the slaves work as fast as your normal workers did before getting it
 
Weird, now I'm :confused:

Thanks for the input, though, Gyathaar :thumbsup:
 
Re: tech rate

Whilst I wasn't doing anything to encourage the AI to research too quickly, I wasn't stopping them. My first sign that they weren't researching as quickly as I'd have liked was in the start of the MA, where I'd researched, by myself: Engineering, Monotheism, Theology, Chivalry, before they came up with Feudalism. Not like I hadn't given them the chance or anything....

Neil. :cool:
 
There are reasons for slow AI research.

1. It's only a monarch level
2. There are only 4 AIs on our continent and most players dispatched them early in the game so those AIs after initial few turns were unable to do anything.
3. On the remote continent... Oh... that i will leave for the next spoiler.
 
It is good game. I find 2 (!!!!) settlers from huts. I think american and iroques takes techs from huts.
I build Piramids 1400 BC,
Hanging gardens 410 BC
Great Library 300 AD and begin MA
first azteks war around 450BC-190AD
and all cities build only horses.
 
(Open) What a change this GOTM is from the previous one. I tried to beat GOTM 3 maybe five times but lost every time. I am doing pretty decent in this one, as everybody is, I'm sure. I won't bother you with my time line, it's sufficient to explain that I used my capital as a settler factory, as discussed in the pre-game thread. It was the first time I consciously made such a thing, and I must say it really helps having a constant flow of settlers. Have any of you made other specific settler/worker factories besides the capital?

Maybe it's funny to mention that my first warrior had a terrific career. I send him north, where he discovered the Iroquois. He was ambushed by barbarians in a swamp and reduced to one hit point, barely surviving the ongoing attacks of a decently sized stack of barbs. He got out of this as an elite and returned home to defend our northernmost city, somewhere near the cow. Later, he was the only defender when our city was besieged by mounted Iroquois and did his job so well that he became a great leader. Nice eh? This leader made an army of swordsman, which later perished in a reckless attack behind enemy lines, sadly enough. But still we remember the bravery and persistence of our first Mayan warrior.

Next time, I will certainly try out Dmanakho's suggestion of building horsemen in stead of swordsmen for the Ancient Era conquests. I presume people who use horses in stead of swords also put the horses in any armies they might have gained?
 
Alphons Rodulfo said:
Next time, I will certainly try out Dmanakho's suggestion of building horsemen in stead of swordsmen for the Ancient Era conquests. I presume people who use horses in stead of swords also put the horses in any armies they might have gained?

It may sound strange but when i play conquest i'd much rather prefer an army of swordsmen instead.... While having an extra defence and attack point when built of swordsmen, conquests army has an extra movement rate, so it's essentially a horseman :)
If i play PTW i would probably use a leader to rush GW
 
dmanakho said:
It may sound strange but when i play conquest i'd much rather prefer an army of swordsmen instead.... While having an extra defence and attack point when built of swordsmen, conquests army has an extra movement rate, so it's essentially a horseman :)
If i play PTW i would probably use a leader to rush GW

That makes sense, but it would probably take you more time to have the army ready because you will have many horsemen ready, but swordsmen you would have to build first before you can join them to the army.

And how about putting javelin throwers in an early Mayan army? This would a very powerful slavegathering machine which might still be useful in the later ages, to finish off weakened enemy units. Or is this a bad idea?
 
Alphons Rodulfo said:
That makes sense, but it would probably take you more time to have the army ready because you will have many horsemen ready, but swordsmen you would have to build first before you can join them to the army. ?

how about those warriors you have hanging around since very beggining of the game... just upgrade those and you get instant swords :)

Alphons Rodulfo said:
And how about putting javelin throwers in an early Mayan army? This would a very powerful slavegathering machine which might still be useful in the later ages, to finish off weakened enemy units. Or is this a bad idea?

Interesting idea, never tested it. I have a feeling JTs will lose their enslaving abilites once joined in to the army.... and would it make a difference if you have 3 JT army or 1JT and 2 different units :confused:
 
dmanakho said:
Interesting idea, never tested it. I have a feeling JTs will lose their enslaving abilites once joined in to the army.... and would it make a difference if you have 3 JT army or 1JT and 2 different units :confused:


Don't know about a mixed army, but I am pretty sure my armies of JT's have Enslaved other units.
 
I think it works like this: the army is a stack of units, the first unit in the stack always attacks first, until it runs out of hit points, after which the next unit attacks, etc.. I think one can derive this from the animation of an attacking army. I also think that the order of units in the army is always the same and is determined by the order in which the units initially join. I assume the order in which the units attack can also be seen when you right-click on an army and you see the list of units in the army. The unit listed on top probably always attacks first. If this is true, and the unit that is joined to an army first ends up on top of the stack, a good idea for an early Mayan army could be to first join two javelin throwers, followed by an elite swordsman or a medieval infantry if that is available. The latter could act as a safeguard against the javelin throwers loosing their fights. The javs should always attack first because they will do the enslaving. Still later in the game, when you receive the ability to have an army of four units, you could add a modern armour or something like that to the army in order to maintain your überslavemaker. :whipped:
 
Capt Buttkick said:
I would never consider using JTs against 3-defense units though, and most of my kills were against hurt spears or warriors/Jags/archer :cool:


I agree :goodjob: , which is kind of my point about why you would need to slow down the tech race. I am certainly into Middle ages well before 0 AD on a lot of my games, as many are with this game. Once into MA, you're looking at a whole lot of units with a defense of 3 or more :eek: .

Now, I may in fact try to push my JT's lifespan even a little further, as I think with good use of artillery, a 4 HP JT can take a 1 HP pikeman in anything less then a walled town.

It'll be interesting to see how many JT's I can produce before the GL spits out Engineering to me. Then I'll have to see if I should hold onto them as JT's, or upgrade to Longbowmen.

However, I reckon my 16+ HP JT armies will be useful for a long time to come, if only as defense. Hopefully, I'll gather a few more slaves off of them, even if I have to abandon JTs for the remaining game.

However, before I can get back to the game, I really must go clean up the garage, which I'll never do if I start playing again... :rolleyes:
 
As much as I like to read other folks' logs, I don't keep one myself so I won't be able to detail my moves. Instead, I would like to raise a few general points:

1) How about the Javalin Thrower... they are perfect for getting slaves from the barb camps. The downside would be triggering an early GA if you end up at war and being forced to use them. I myself didn't worry about the timing of the GA this time, and I think it paid off. I could leasurely keep building settlers during my GA AND fight a war with the Americans at the same time.

2) Was it just me, or were the barb galleys stronger than usual? I had numerous curraghs and galleys sunk, even when they operated in pairs or even a threesome. One would almost think Ainwood doesn't like us contacting the rest of the world before navigation ;-)

3) I built granaries before anything else in the first 6 or 7 core cities... a good decision I think. High pop + industrious/agricultural trade + slaves = alot of gold. I was outresearching the AI by far... almost got all the techs myself after the 1st tier. Instead, the money was well spent on dealing with WW during republic warfare.

4) The AI seemed quite agressive in my game. I ended up being at war with all but the Spanish before the MA. Particularly, the Aztecs declared when I was at war with the Americans and the Iroqois when the war with the Americans was over, but I was still at war with the Aztecs. The Spanish were my friend and happily joined whenever I asked them to. Maybe not a bad decision from the AI, because I had my forces committed elsewhere, but my military was ranked strong and that is what the AI is supposed to factor in right?
 
I'll join in on this since I've qualified (put post the tale of Mursilis later).

I've also noticed the slow tech pace for my neighbors and that was before the wars started. Also with the exception of the very early wonders, nobody has been interested in building them. I got a couple just by default.

A couple of other points. I noticed EsatP mentioning gettting settlers from huts, I never saw any huts and land barbarians were only a problem for my neighbors. I did lose quite a few curraghs to barbarian galleys. They'd gang up on my poor little curragh. He'd win against the first one or two but get redlined in the process and then lose to the third.

Finally, were Military Great Leaders turned off for this game? I've won over 50 elite battles so far and have yet to get my first MGL.

QSC stats:
12 Cities
2 Settlers in transit
2 more settlers about to complete
6 Workers, 1 Slave and 2 workers about to complete
31 citizens
13 Warriors, 3 Javelin Throwers & 2 Curraghs (and 2 RIP Curraghs)
 
First time poster, first time COTM, but long-time lurker... ;)

Like virtually everyone, I moved my settler NE to the river and proceeded to get the wheat irrigated by the time the culture expanded. Again, like most, I built Warrior, Warrior, Granary, Settler. Due to a miscalculation, my 1st settler didn't come until 2710BC, and for whatever reason after that I only managed a 5 turn Settler pump. Still, I managed to grab both the spices and the silks, and very early hook up both the horses and the iron. After initially being far behind in techs, I managed to get the lead by strategic trading...but out of fear of losing the extra tech from Philosophy, I completed it before CoL, taking Literature instead as my free tech.

By 1050BC, I had built 9 cities, and declared war against the Inca, hoping to take down the early leader. On the same turn, however, the Iriquois sneak attacked, forcing me to a two-front war. Still, only a few turns later I managed to capture Tenochtitlan, only to have it flip one turn later, taking with it several of my 8 swordsmen. In the ensuing war, I managed to get an early MGL, allowing my to mow down the Inca (and finally recapture Tenochtitlan), leaving the Inca with a measily 3 or 4 cities down in the tundra. During this period, I also researched Monarchy, which soon became the Maya government of choice.

By 500BC, my galleys/curraghs had mapped the entire coastline, and when we were ushered into the Middle Ages around 150BC, I currently had 15 cities, a swordsman army, and a decent sized standing force of several horsemen and spearmen.

In addition to the luck of an early MGL, I also did not lose a single ship to the barbs, amazingly enough! In fact, my 1st two curraghs both became elite in their first encounters with the barb galleys! :lol: To balance this, however, my poor Javelin Throwers have yet to produce a single slave, although my war with Inca and the Iriquois certainly produced a few. Of course, it would help if I could actually find some barbarians...they all seem to be hiding... :rolleyes:

Below is a screenie of the center of my position and a close-up of my minimap (with the appropriate 'further explorations' removed to protect the naive).




My current plans involve wiping out the pesky Iriquois, who seem to always have a personal vendetta against me in Civ3...they always attack me, at the most inconvenient times. Of course, America is currently blocking the way, so I'll probably enlist them in a alliance as well as a ROP agreement. Naturally, once the Iriquois are gone, America will be my next victim...followed finally by Spain. Once the continent is mine...well, that's for another time...

Gwyned
 
denyd said:
Finally, were Military Great Leaders turned off for this game? I've won over 50 elite battles so far and have yet to get my first MGL.
I got a leader with my first elite battle. I have gotten 6 or 7 so far (early Mod age). Normally, my results are more like yours. Just the fickle RNG, I guess.
 
Open

Decided to go for a histographic win this game (already starting to regret it.. closing in to 50 hours played in 1500AD).

Moved worker nw to the bous grass.. saw more BG that would end up in capital radius if moving settler NE, so did so.. roaded bonus grass, then irrigated it, moved to wheat, irrigated and roaded.. which finished just before cultural expansion.

Traded for alphabeth with my neighbours, then did min research on writing followed by max on CoL, then pilosophy. Got Republic in 1000BC, and revolted. Drew a 5 turn anarchy.

Had meanwhile done expansion and heavy exploring with curraghs (found the 2nd continent in 1250BC, but boat got killed by barbs before I could contact anyone there :( ).

Stats in 1000BC:

14 Cities (pop 32)
13 workers plus 1 slave
19 warriors
5 javelin throwers
1 Curraghs (no clue how many suicide ones lost :) )

4 barracks
1 granary

5 turns anarchy remaining untill republic
Missing : Construction,currency,literature,map making,polytheism,monarchy



Entered MA in 250BC, at this point in golden age and having all the AA techs (all the optional ones)

At this point 19 Cities with 86 population
21 workers, plus 7 slaves
(hardly saw any landbound barbs.. wish you could put a JT on a galley and enslave some of the countless barb galleys :p )
 
Top Bottom