Conquest 04: First Spoiler

[dmanakho]

2) Was it just me, or were the barb galleys stronger than usual? I had numerous curraghs and galleys sunk, even when they operated in pairs or even a threesome. One would almost think Ainwood doesn't like us contacting the rest of the world before navigation ;-)

Interesting point .. Ainwood certainly could have made it possible... Personally i didn't do any sea exploration until i recearched Navigation, this way i was hoping to get some use of GL i had.

3) I built granaries before anything else in the first 6 or 7 core cities... a good decision I think. ....I was outresearching the AI by far... almost got all the techs myself after the 1st tier.

Same happened to me... I was outresearching AIs from the very beginning even with having only 2 granaries.

I've also noticed the slow tech pace for my neighbors and that was before the wars started.

Another reason for slow research on our continent - small number of AIs and the fact that they were geographically separated (especially Aztecs) so they it took very long time for them to find each other and to speed up a tech pace a little by trading as AIs usually do...they had little time until most human players started warfares crippling AIs. or so my theory is

Finally, were Military Great Leaders turned off for this game? I've won over 50 elite battles so far and have yet to get my first MGL

They were not off, but in my game i waged constant wars almost with no interruption and only had 3 MGLs total. So you are not alone having such a bad luck this time.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Open


My Ancient age didn't shape up much different than everyone else's. By 1000 BC, I had 13 cities.

Some highlights I had:

The Americans plopped Boston down on the Silks. In 2090 BC I declared war and walked into undefended Boston, razing it. In 1910, I sued for peace, getting CB and The Wheel.

In 975 BC, the Aztecs pulled a sneak attack on me, but didn't gain anything. In fact, I managed to get a city in peace.

In 875, I learned Philosophy, but receive no free tech. The other continent is obviously ahead in tech.

In 410 I finally learned Republic the hard way, and got 5 turns of anarchy.

It was round this time I entered the MA. I didn't write down the exact date, but it happened shortly after my Republic was formed.

As I entered the MA, I was preparing to wipe out America with my horseman force I had built up.

 

[Randy]

Finally, were Military Great Leaders turned off for this game? I've won over 50 elite battles so far and have yet to get my first MGL.

No, I had about 7 or 8. If only this were PtW. I've never had so many leaders.

 

[eldar]

I've had 1 MGL so far, and build a Sword army and the Epic. Probably about right for the number of Elite wins, not been getting many since Knights vs Spears isn't a very fair fight ;-)

Neil.

 

[Peglegasus]

Again, like most, I built Warrior, Warrior, Granary, Settler. Due to a miscalculation, my 1st settler didn't come until 2710BC, and for whatever reason after that I only managed a 5 turn Settler pump.

Welcome to the GOTM! The thing with the 4 turn settler factory that was confusing for me at first is the tag under your city actually says settler in 5 turns. The trick is to keep your growth at 2 turns and having a tile to "grow into" that will generate an extra couple shields, like a mined bonus grass or a forest tile. For me I was growing from 4 to 5 and my growth rate would drop to 3 because my new citizen was placed on the forest. Right after my city grows to 5 I have to move that citizen from the forest, I actually would just put him onto a roaded grass tile by the river. This puts my factory back at growth in 2, settler in 3. That's the confusing part because when my city grows in 2 turns, the new citizen again gets put automatically onto the forest, generating the last couple shields needed for that settler, so the settler is completed one turn early, in 4 turns instead of the 5 initially shown. Hope this makes sense to ya'! Took me a while to get it.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

A few things:
First of, i think people give too much info on "the other continent"

-"Another reason for slow research on OUR continent "
-"On the remote continent... Oh... that i will leave for the next spoiler."
-And more.
While it all is not direct information, it gives too much clues IMO. I only played till 550BC yet and never seen it, but start getting quite some ideas about it from reading this tread.

And to ainwood:
would it be possible to take out cities/settlers from goody huts? getting one of these early on gives such a HUGE advantage. And if i see people getting 2 from huts, i think it gives way too much of a luck factor in the gotm. I can only dream of how strong my empire would be if i had found 2 free settlers (i have none, i never ever seem to get those)
(edit: same goes for sgl)

 

[Alphons Rodulfo]

A few things:
would it be possible to take out cities/settlers from goody huts? getting one of these early on gives such a HUGE advantage. And if i see people getting 2 from huts, i think it gives way too much of a luck factor in the gotm.
(edit: same goes for sgl)

Why take out a normal part of the game? Is it that bad if some other people have a bit more luck than you sometimes? Popping goody huts is always a risk, it is nice to have rewards for taking this risk in a game.

 

[Peglegasus]

Open Class

As soon as I knew we would be playing the Maya I knew I wanted to go for a space race victory. For one I haven't done it in a long time. Secondly I'm inspired by the end of Star Wars episode IV where the lookout at the rebel base is scanning incoming ships, looking out over a huge forest where you can see stone structures peeking out above the trees. Well those structures are the temples of Tikal, built of course by the Maya.

The Maya were also avid astronomers and astrologers. Many of their wars and important events were planned around significant astronomical events. So space race it is.

Opening moves: I moved the settler NE and settled on the river like most people did. My worker roaded the starting tile and then the adjacent BG, mined the BG, then moved back to irrigate the starting grass tile and then on to the wheat. I built 3 warriors, then granary, then settlers. First warrior went west and then south after reaching the coast, second went north, third stayed as MP. By 2590BC my settler factory was up and running. We meet the Aztecs in 3350 and they are way too close for comfort. I've had big problems with the Aztecs in some recent random games so I am pre-disposed to going after them ASAP. We meet America soon after in 3100BC, then Spain in 2350BC, and the Iroquois in 1475BC.

Early expansion: My first settler went for the silks to the north. Second settler founded on the river and the coast to the NE. Third settler went for the spices to the south and it was at that time that we discovered the wheel and found horses near that spot as well. After that I just started putting cities wherever looked good. It's nice to not have to worry about RCP for a change. Found 2 goody huts down in the Aztec lands. One gave me maps and the other some gold.

Research: I decided not to go for alphabet first. I was hoping to meet someone that started with it so I went for the wheel at full.
Warrior code from Aztecs for masonry
Ceremonial Burial from America for Warrior Code
Bronze working from Aztecs for Ceremonial Burial.
The Wheel researched
Alphabet from America for the Wheel
Writing, Code of Laws, and Philosophy researched
Republic free tech
Horseback riding and Mysticism from America for Code of Laws
Literature and Mathematics from America for Republic
Currency researched
Map making from Iroquois for Republic
Polytheism from America for Currency
Construction researched (was the only tech the AI beat me to... Spanish got it 2 turns earlier)

I ended up gifting techs to my northern neighbors a lot. I was hoping that they would help me out with research and they certainly did. Either that or they got techs from huts.

The Mayan Republic: We discovered Republic in 1175BC but I decided to wait 2 turns to get a settler and a couple more workers out. We revolted in 1125BC and had 5 turns of anarchy, becoming a Republic in 1000BC

At 1000BC we have: 1 settler, 14 workers, 8 warriors, 2 spears, 2 horses, 2 javelin throwers, 1 curragh, and 3 slaves. We have 12 towns and will research currency in 17 turns, needing polytheism and construction in addition.

The First Star War: In 630BC The Mayan astronomers determine that the time has come for the Aztec nation to fall. It's in the stars after all. We demand 35 gold from Montezuma and they submit. We declare anyway. 5 horses, 2 javs, 3 swords, 2 spears, and 2 catapults move on Tenochtitlan. 5 horses take Calixtlahuaca the first turn. Tenochtitlan is taken 2 turns later. The catapults are used to injure the defending spears, and a javelin thrower triggers our golden age and takes a slave. Texcoco is autorazed the next turn and a settler and a worker are captured.

In 490BC we research construction and enter the Middle Ages. We are of course still in our golden age and at war with the Aztecs. All of the other civs are polite towards us from all of the technology gifts and we have embassies with them all. We are using the production boost from the GA to build libraries and marketplaces.

Upon entering the MA we have 4 settlers (heading to resettle the Aztec lands, 17 workers, 2 warriors, 3 spears, 3 swords, 7 catapults, 1 curragh, and 8 slaves. We have 19 cities and are researching monotheism, hoping the AI will come up with Feudalism. Firaxis score is 424.

 

[smackster]

And to ainwood:
would it be possible to take out cities/settlers from goody huts? getting one of these early on gives such a HUGE advantage. And if i see people getting 2 from huts, i think it gives way too much of a luck factor in the gotm. I can only dream of how strong my empire would be if i had found 2 free settlers (i have none, i never ever seem to get those)
(edit: same goes for sgl)

One important point on goodie huts, make sure you are not building a settler anywhere, when you pop one or you will never get a settler/village.

edit: SGL is turned off

 

[LuuCkyJaa]

smackster,

Thanks for the tip. I had read elsewhere on this site that you would never get a tech you are researching from a goody hut. I didn't realize about the settler.

Obviously, it's less important, but does this also mean you will not get a warrior if you are currently building one? Just curious.

James

 

[smackster]

smackster,

Thanks for the tip. I had read elsewhere on this site that you would never get a tech you are researching from a goody hut. I didn't realize about the settler.

Obviously, it's less important, but does this also mean you will not get a warrior if you are currently building one? Just curious.
James

Cut and paste from Apolyton

On Goody Hut Discoveries
Here are the conditions:

Gold:
--The tile must not have any type of resource or luxury on it.

Maps:
--always available

Nothing:
--always available

Settler:
--Player must not have a settler (active or in production) or any unit with the Settle AI strategy.
--Player must have less cities than (TotalCities / NumActivePlayers).

Mercenaries (skilled warrior):
--There must be a unit available to the Barbarians as well as the player and that unit must be able to be built (or have been built) by some player in the game.

Tech:
--Player must still be in Ancient Times.

Barbarians:
--Player must not have Expansionist trait.
--There must not be a city within a 1-tile radius.
--The player must have at least 1 city.
--The player must have at least 1 military unit.
--The unit popping the hut must not have the "All Terrain As Roads" ability.

 

[bed_head7]

There was a little debate about armies going on earlier. I believe that the traits of a unit are only transferred to the army when the whole army is made up of that unit. So a mixed army would not allow enslaving, even if the JT won the battle. Perhaps I am wrong, but I do know that a marine army must be made up of all marines in order attack amphibiously.

 

[LuuCkyJaa]

samckster,

Thanks again. What is a "unit with the Settle AI strategy." Is this a pre-Civ3/Conquests thing? Or have I missed something?

James

 

[Cuivienen]

It's in the editor. You can set what an AI uses its units for. For example, if you uncheck "Settle" under AI Strategy for the Settler, the AI will never build cities.

 

[MiniMe]

Peglegasus wrote:

As soon as I knew we would be playing the Maya I knew I wanted to go for a space race victory. For one I haven't done it in a long time. Secondly I'm inspired by the end of Star Wars episode IV where the lookout at the rebel base is scanning incoming ships, looking out over a huge forest where you can see stone structures peeking out above the trees. Well those structures are the temples of Tikal, built of course by the Maya.

I am totally inspired by the reason for which you choose your victory condition
Have a good one!

 

[LuuCkyJaa]

Cuivienen,

Thanks. I've never opened the editor, and I don't think I'm going to start now. I already spend way too much time just playing and lurking around this website. If I start playing with the editor, creating maps, etc., I'll never get any sleep.

James

 

[denyd]

As Mursilis settled into the stasis pod launch chair he glanced once more at Zimbabwe and a combination of sorrow in leaving such a nice planet and excitement to be on the way to his next venue. He had long since given up any hope of reaching Alpha Centauri in the near future and resigned himself to helping new adventurers tame the wilderness of a new world. These new settlers he had agreed to lead were an interesting people. Quite hardworking and wonderful farmers, their tradition of slavery was something Mursilis accepted though did not personally approve of. As the countdown started, Mursilis activated the stasis unit and once again headed to the stars.

The morning sun had not yet begun to light the surrounding countryside when the stasis pod landed on the soft grasslands of a new world. Mursilis noticed hills to the east with a nice little river and a wild crop of wheat to the west. “We’d be best served by settling northeast on that river, “ he commanded and in 3950 BC Chichen Itza was founded.

The first 600 hundred years passed quietly and Mursilis began to wonder if other tribes had settled this planet when word came from Thor, his southern scout that the Aztec people had built a city. The only excitement for the next 500 years was the completion of the granary of Chichen Itza and the acquisition of Bronze Working from the Aztecs.

The next 800 years would see the settling three more Mayan cities, the discovery of writing and finally contact with another tribe, the Americans. A trade of Alphabet to the Aztecs nets The Wheel & Warrior Code and Mursilis has regained tech parity with the known world.

And another 800 years quickly fly by with only new Maya cities being settled, the meeting of the Spanish & Iroquois peoples and the demise of Mayan curraghs to barbarian galleys to provide milestones for the period.

“I guess it’s time I got off my butt and started earning my pay. Please send invitations to all the foreign ambassadors to the inaugural Mayan Trading Conference” Mursilis said to his aides.

Mursilis returned to his office quite please with himself. His treasury now contained all of the gold in the known world and his scientists would spend many long nights studying the information about Mathematics, Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, Iron Working and Horseback Riding that he was able to obtain from the other tribes. The discovery of the art of Philosophy and the instant reward of a new form of government, The Republic would highlight the end of Smoke Jaguar’s (as Mursilis was now known) first 3000 years as leader of the Mayan empire.

At the celebration of the birth of the Mayan Republic Smoke was informed that the Americans were celebrating a giant stone pyramid in their capital. “Someday, we’ll have to visit Washington and see what that’s all about” he thought.

The second annual Mayan Trade Conference had started wonderfully for Smoke, with the acquisition of Map Making, Construction and Currency, successfully moving his nation to the Middle Ages before any other nation. However, the evening celebrations turned ugly as Montezuma consumed way too much Tequila and began threatening sacrifice the nearest 50 virgins at sunrise. Smoke Jaguar tried to calm the Aztec leader but it was no use and before he night ended the Mayan people were at war with the Aztec.

The mighty Mayan army moved to the hill about Xochicalco and could see the Aztec spearman rushing to attempt to defend the city. When the Javelin Thrower Legolas enslaved the final defender and the populace abandoned the city, the Mayan Golden Age began. As the day ended in Chichen Itza with the news of the scientific discovery of Literature, this chapter comes to an end.

The future looks bright for the Mayan leader. His neighbors, while nearly equal in size, all lack iron, horses or technology to be his match in the battles that are to come. His capital is near to completing the Temple of Artemis, which will provide needed city expansions and culture to his empire and with the impending completion of a coastal palace; soon corruption will be less of a problem.

 

[ainwood]

And to ainwood:
would it be possible to take out cities/settlers from goody huts? getting one of these early on gives such a HUGE advantage. And if i see people getting 2 from huts, i think it gives way too much of a luck factor in the gotm. I can only dream of how strong my empire would be if i had found 2 free settlers (i have none, i never ever seem to get those)
(edit: same goes for sgl)

SGL is turned off. As for settlers from goody-huts, I flagged this in the C3C patch requests thread to allow the contents of goody-huts to be specified in the scenario, but its obviously a low-priority for Firaxis.

Therefore, I generally remove goody huts from near the start location. There is normally some at a reasonable distance, so a settler there needs to be marched-back to the starting area, or form a largely corrupt city (although it still contributes 'points'). The other alternative is to put in extra goody huts to improve the odds that people will get settlers (even it out that way), but then some might get zero and some might get two.

 

[ainwood]

2) Was it just me, or were the barb galleys stronger than usual? I had numerous curraghs and galleys sunk, even when they operated in pairs or even a threesome. One would almost think Ainwood doesn't like us contacting the rest of the world before navigation ;-)

I seriously toyed with this idea, albeit for the predator class, although I did remove the barb attack bonus for predator players, so if you were playing predator and lost when attacking galleys, then this might be the reason.

To actually change the galley stats would affect everyone - I'd need to give the barbs a different unit (eg a Man 'o war modded to be available earlier) if I wanted to just make barbs stronger.

 

[SirPleb]

(predator)

Opening Moves

I moved the worker to the wheat, then the settler NE and founded Chichen Itza there in 3950BC.

My worker roaded the wheat, moved NE to the BG to road and then irrigate it, moved back to the wheat to irrigate, moved back to the BG to replace its irrigation by a mine, and then chopped a forest to boost production of a granary.

Chichen Itza built two warriors to explore and then built a granary, completing it in 2950BC. After the granary it built three workers and then ran as a four turn settler factory for a long time.

Exploration and Expansion

My exploring warriors met the Aztecs in 3600, America in 3150, Iroquois in 2550, and Spain in 2110.

I had great luck in 3200BC - I popped a settler from a goody hut northwest of home. This settler returned homeward and founded Copan beside the silks in 2850BC, boosting initial expansion nicely. I didn't get anything else useful from huts in this game nor did I care - that settler was quite enough.

Once I got my settler factory running in Chichen Itza expansion was rapid and straightforward. Barbarians were a nuisance, appearing on the NW/SE diagonal from my towns a couple of times. I lost a few units and in one case rushed a javelin thrower to deal with some barbarians but overall they weren't a big deal - C3C barbarians are very predictable.

As soon as I had some coastal towns I built curraghs to assist in exploration. By 1450BC I'd built four of them. They mapped much of the coastline but sadly three eventually sank during encounters with barbarians.

Research

I began by researching Alphabet at the minimum rate in case I didn't get a chance to trade for it.

When I met the Iroquois in 2550BC I traded for Alphabet and began research in earnest, studying Writing next.

I learned Writing in 1830BC, Code Of Laws in 1500BC, and Philosophy in 1350BC. I held off on trading Writing until then to avoid any chance that an AI might learn Philosophy from a hut. So I was first to Philosophy, got Republic, and immediately revolted drawing a six turn revolution.

Upon learning Philosophy and Republic I immediately traded Writing for all other techs known by the AIs: Mathematics, Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, The Wheel, and Iron Working. I was pleasantly surprised to find that I had both horses and iron inside my borders.

Next I learned Literature in 1050BC, Construction in 850BC, and Currency in 750BC. At that date I traded for Polytheism and entered the Middle Ages.

War on America

Soon after becoming a Republic I decided I wanted to trigger my Golden Age. I wanted a boost at that time for construction of libraries and a few wonders.

I hadn't built much military. I'd decided not to build a lot of Javelin Throwers. They are over-priced units for their attack strength - their value is in their enslavement ability. I didn't put a high value on slave labor since I'd built a number of workers early on and slaves would be just 1/3 as effective. And I expected to maintain a high tech pace and to obsolete Javelin Throwers quickly. So I built just a few and supplemented them with horsemen. I then attacked America, getting a few slaves, one town, and triggering my Golden Age in 1050BC. As soon as America would talk, in 925BC, I gave her peace for two more towns.

Wonders and Future Plans

Aside from the quick strike on America I focused on growth and research in Ancient Times.

At first I intended to follow my usual approach of not building any early wonders although I did trade Masonry to each rival asap to encourage them to build Pyramids for me. In 1225BC after becoming a Republic I reconsidered. I was fairly sure by that date that we had just four local rivals. That meant six Civs somewhere other than the home continent. Not good odds of getting the Pyramids locally. And I really wanted them on our nice big continent. By this date I'd also seen some suggestive bits of sea beyond our coastal waters. Suggestive that the map might have connections which could be made by a Civ who can traverse sea tiles. So I wanted the Great Lighthouse too. And I wanted Hanging Gardens - there didn't seem to be enough luxuries on the home continent to handle happiness. And of course I wanted a Forbidden Palace.

I didn't have any prebuilds going and it seemed a bit late to start Pyramids and Lighthouse builds at Monarch level. So I decided to fuel their production, and that of my Forbidden Palace, by triggering a Golden Age.

The result is that at the end of Ancient Times in 750BC I have a city which is 1 turn from completing Pyramids, another which is 4 turns from Forbidden Palace, and another which is 10 turns from completing Great Lighthouse.

During the Golden Age I've also made a good start on culture - eight libraries at 750BC and I've taken a cultural lead.

I haven't sent out many suicide galleys. It doesn't seem urgent because remote Monarch level Civs are unlikely to have a tech lead and are unlikely to have much gold yet. So I'm waiting to see whether I get the Great Lighthouse. I'll send ships exploring after that.

I intend to research quickly to Chivalry and then start taking over the home continent with Knights. I'll fill in the outer regions densely so that I can build lots of libraries and temples.

Although I'm going for a culture win I have not worked on building Temple Of Artemis. My thinking is that it would be obsolete relatively quickly because I'll want Education to build universities, and that the 500 shield investment in it wouldn't pay off between the time I could finish it and the time it would become obsolete. I'm not sure about this.

My empire at the end of Ancient Times:

QSC Status

At 1000BC I had:
16 towns (15 native, 1 captured) with 54 citizens
1 settler
11 native workers, 3 foreign workers
1 warrior, 3 horsemen, 5 javelin throwers
1 curragh
3 barracks, 2 granaries
219g in treasury

Click here if you'd like a copy of my detailed QSC timeline.