Conquest 06: Final Spoiler

[MPF]

Since I downloaded the sav file just a few days ago it was obvious I would not get a regular game finished at time. So I played an fast OCC (one city challange) for a 20K culture win.

Started off as planned and got 3 ancient wonders (Collossus, Lighthouse and the GL). Negative side effect being that the collossus triggerd my golden age while still in despotisme and size 7. So much for a controlled golden age. Even managed to take 4 middle ages wonders. To keep up with tech rate I planned to build al the science wonders (Copernicus, Newton and Seti).

And wow did my tiny civ generate science. With the three science wonders and a library, university and research center it actualy enhanced my base science 27 times!!!! (the improvements give 50% more science and the wonders 100% extra makes 1,5 * 1,5 * 1,5 * 2 * 2 * 2 = 27 * base science).

My 27 times boosted base science was so big it would not fit in the normal science bar (see picture). My capital would even research modern techs in about 11/12 turnes, enough to research less populair techs and sell/trade them witch the other civs.

Obtained the 20K victory just after passing 1900 (1904 to be exact), some 20 turnes before Spain would reach her 100.000K limit (see picture). Something odd in my victory screen. The city culture and the civ culture does not match. Strange as my city = my whole civ Does anyone known plausible explanation for this??

MPF

 

[MPF]

After submitting my OCC game I played on to find out if I could get my science off the scale and yes we did (see attachment). My city at it lagest size generated a massive 688 science beakers The city screen is not wide enough to contain such a massive science output and the city science is therefor off the scale

MPF

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Umm, that's not correct; the Science bonus is additive, not cumulative.
So, you get base + 50% (Library) + 50% (Uni) + 50% (RL) + 3x 100% (Science Wonders) = base + 450% = 5.5x base

But, what happened here is the Tourism bonus kicking in massively (which works like a commerce bonus tile).

About the total culture question: During times of Anarchy, the city culture doesn't accumulate, but the overall culture still counts on.

 

[AlanH]

The city culture and the civ culture does not match. Strange as my city = my whole civ Does anyone known plausible explanation for this??

My guess - a bug! I know that Classic Civ3 can incorrectly calculate the cultural value of your 20 K city, so I'm guessing this bug has found its way into C3C. If you add up all the separate cultural values for the improvements and wonders in your capital my theory is the total will equal the civ culture value in your victory screen, not the city culture value.

 

[AlanH]

About the total culture question: During times of Anarchy, the city culture doesn't accumulate, but the overall culture still counts on.

Interesting

 

[MPF]

But, what happened here is the Tourism bonus kicking in massively (which works like a commerce bonus tile).

Thx Doc (you ain't called doc for nothing I suppose ). If tourisme plays such an extreme factor over the ages its time to reevaluate the wonders that you build with Conquest. Seems that these tourist wonders have extra research value as well in the conquest game.

MPF

 

[MPF]

About the total culture question: During times of Anarchy, the city culture doesn't accumulate, but the overall culture still counts on.

Am I to understand that when in anarchy the city culture doesn't count for the city but only counts for the civ as a whole? Where else is this culture comming from?

MPF

 

[MPF]

By the way can anyone tell me how its possible to post four (and now possibly five) postings all with the same posting number (59). Shouldn't the count go up like posts 56, 57, 58, 59 etc. or is it just a general cumulative number?

MPF

 

[AlanH]

Where are you seeing this phenomenon? Ah! Just realised you're looking at your own post count, not the post numbers. Your post count is your total number of posts to date. Simple.

 

[MPF]

Where are you seeing this phenomenon? Ah! Just realised you're looking at your own post count, not the post numbers. Your post count is your total number of posts to date. Simple.

thx Alan. By the way is there any threads that explains the differences between CIV III (PTW) and Conquest? Just started on conquest and have some catching up to do. I have browsed through the strategy forums but can find only scraps of info on the subject.

Some things I have already discoverd like the way the forbidden palace works (it has changed and now ruduces corruption less then in Civ II or PTW). An general overview would be nice.

MPF

 

[AlanH]

I seem to recall SirPleb wrote an excellent definitive treatise on this subject. Let's have a search ..... Ahah! CivSteve's GOTM Reference thread to the rescue again:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1887523&postcount=70

 

[ainwood]

The city culture and the civ culture does not match. Strange as my city = my whole civ Does anyone known plausible explanation for this??

MPF

In addition to Doc's comment, any culture-generating improvements in your city that are as a result of buildings provided by wonders (eg free temples or research labs) don't appear in the city culture screen, yet still count culture towards the total cultural value of the city.

 

[chunkymonkey]

Open

Steaming towards the Space age. Hopefully 4/5 turn research all the way with a little help from my AI friends.

910 - New Lagos found.
950 - Our Golden Age ends.
960 - Learn Steam. Start Medicine.
1010 - Learn Medicine. Start Electricity.
1020 - Lisbon builds Copernicus'.
1070 - Learn Electricity. Start Sci Method.
1110 - A new source of Iron turns up at Lisbon! Rome demands Saltpeter. We refuse. Learn Sci Method. Start Industrialisation.
1130 - Romans land a couple of Knights on shores. Ask them to leave. They declare! Get Navigation from the English in exchange for Physics. Reverse WW allows me to set lux to zero.
1150 - Learn Industrialisation. Start Corporation.
1180 - Romans and Koreans sign MA against us. Lisbon builds Newton's Uni.
1190 - Learn Corporation. Start Replacable Parts.
1250 - Rome, Korea and Maya sign Embargoes against us. Learn Replacable Parts.
1255 - Korea lands some units.
1260 - Sign PT with Korea and get 7gpt,14g.
1275 - Trade Industrialisation to Maya in exchange for Nationalism. Trade Industrialisation and Nationalism to everyone for gold.
1285 - Learn Refining. Lagos builds ToE. Learn Atomics and Electronics.
1290 - Bring everyone else up to date.
1295 - Sparta (greek) builds JS Bach's.
1305 - Learn Steel.
1310 - Lagatero (Mayan) builds Magellan.
1315 - Chichen Itza (mayan) bulds Smith's TC.
1320 - Found New Emerita. Arabs land some units.
1325 - Ask Arabs to leave. They declare war.

I'm bored of this now...

1330 - Give Koreans 50g to declare on Arabs. I may be able to get some furs form an enhanced Korea later. Learn Combustion.
1335 - Bring everyone up to date techwise, and get them to declare on Arabs. Romans land some troops.
1340 - Ask Romans to leave. They declare. We get our second MGL!
1345 - Get everyone to declare on Rome. Oporto builds Heroic Epic.
1350 - Learn Mass Production.
1355 - Palenque (Mayan) builds Shakes Theater.
1370 - Learn Motorised Transport.
1375 - Athens (greek) builds Universal Suffrage.
1390 - Lisbon builds Hoover Dam. Lagos builds Wall Street.
1395 - Learn Flight. Enter MA.

Must speed up...

1400 - Catapult Korea and Greece into Modern age.
1425 - Learn Fission. Trade Fission to Greece in exchange for Rocketry and Ecology. Establish tech parity throughout world.
1450 - Found New Sagres.
1455 - Found New Coimbra. Learn Computers.
1460 - Found New Leiria.
1470 - Lisbon builds the UN.
1485 - Learn Nuclear Power. Lagos builds Manhattan Project.
1510 - Learn The Laser.
1535 - Learn Synthetic Fibres.
1540 - Korea and Greece sign MPP.
1550 - Lisbon build SETI.
1560 - Learn Space Flight.
1580 - Lagos builds the apollo program.
1585 - Learn Superconductor.
1595 - Sagres builds SS Part #1 - Dock. Rio Janeiro builds SS Part #2 - Lounge. Alcacer do Sal builds SS part #3 - Storage.
1600 - Luanda builds SS Part #4 - Fuel Cells. Ourique builds SS Part #5 - Cockpit.
1615 - Learn Miniaturisation. Leiria builds SS Part #6 - Life Support.
1625 - Koreans land some TOW. Too late, Wang...
1630 - Ask Koreans to leave. They declare. Guimaraes builds SS Part #7 - Casing.
1635 - Lagos builds SS Part #8 - Engine.
1640 - Learn Robotics. Oporto builds SS Part #9 - Stasis.
1660 - Learn Satellites. Coimbra builds final SS Part - Thrusters. We win!!

​

Firaxis - 3876
Jason - 6445

I've learnt now, that the AI are rubbish at research pretty much from the beginning of the Middle Ages onwards. Perhaps I should have played Predator... might have had a more difficult time with Spain to begin with though. Also, my decision to not conquer any more continents crippled me. I only posessed 3 luxuries the entire game and was never able to trade for any more. Oh well, thats it for me and space victories. Perhaps i'll go back to domination with the Austrians.

 

[civ_steve]

Yup, went for 20K Victory, and to cut to the end, achieved in 1818 AD.

I thought Carracks were great! Being able to safely cross to the other continents, to cause mischeif, was very nice; having a 2 Attack helped too!

My plan was to keep the AI at war with each other. Once I could reach them, I would target certain AI to reduce their capabilities.

Korea had been really cut to size by the Arabs, so I had to do something to the Arabs. Initially I sent a force of Knights over and started razing towns; later on I started taking towns (denying them their Saltpeter) and eventually owned most of their original territory. The Arabs took out the Koreans during the IA, and that was what they were left with.

I'd had England allied with me against the Romans for Millenia! Eventually England got the worse of that deal, and Ceasar isn't known for his research, so neither one was a threat.

I'd also gotten the Maya allied with me against the Greeks. They did a good job over time, and Alex was taken out of the picture. This made the Maya too much of a threat, but fleets of Carracks carrying stacks of Knights (initially 7 Carracks and 21 Knights) would make sea-based raids, razing town after town of the Mayans on the coast. I pretty much worked all the way around from North to South, and a 2nd group finished the NorthEast; the Mayans weren't a problem.

Since I'd beaten Spain to the Statue of Zeus, they were easy to take care of. I did get 2 GL's from them. Once I saw Conquistadors start to show up, I finished Isabella off.

My 20K city was Guimaraez, and it built all the MidAge Wonders except Sun-Tzu's and Leo's (and MilAcad was built by another city, to allow me to build Armies on the side), UnivSuff and TofE (of course), and BatMed, and in the ModEra, UN, Seti, Internet and Apollo program. I ran out of time before I ran out of Wonders!

A big mistake was not pushing Science earlier in the MidAges. I left a lot of Wonders unbuilt because of lack of Shields; getting to Steam Power ASAP has to be a priority. I was playing a reduced research game initially; this was to prevent the AI learning a Tech I already knew and building a Wonder I was interested in. Therefore I was timing Tech research to allow me to build an earlier Wonder, and start a pre-build for the next before finishing the research. At some point I really needed to kick in the Science so I could take advantage of the extra Shields from railroads, and I did that too late.

Once I did reach the IA, and had learned Steam Power, I quickly railroaded the spaces around Guimaraez; also, building Shakespeare's around this time allowed me to achieve full size with Guimaraez. I left Economics and Navigation to the AI; when I got word that someone started one of Magellan's or Smith's, I switched what I was working on to it and easily finished ahead of the AI. (I was fully Industrial, and generating about 75 shields/turn.) Hoover's Dam never did get built; at only 2 cpt, I was more interested in building the Modern Era wonders that generated 3 or higher cpt.

That's it! I whipped through the last 100 years or so; my part of the world was pretty peaceful. On to Gotm37!

 

[civ_steve]

Hmmm...if that's true, it might be considered as an exploit. Haven't tried this, but I think it can deplete even if not connected, but wouldn't bet.

Haven't seen the discussion for Conquests, but in PTW a non-connected strategic resource never depletes. BTW, disconnecting a resource so that you can build a cheaper unit, then connecting it to do the upgrades, then disconnecting it again is a very prevalent tactic. Iron has this happen to it alot, to allow Warriors or Horsemen to be built. I don't see a problem with not connecting a resource at all, to be sure you have it available when you need it.

SirPleb: nice explanation regarding using Scientific civs and the TofE for maximum effect near the Age changeover!

 

[Ljdjr]

First let me say, I love this site, and want to thank everyone that makes it possible!

These COTM are really great. This is my second one, but first 'write-up'. My notes are sparse at best, but we'll see. Any critique is most welcome, and I have almost every save if anyone wants.

My goals for this game were winning early with Domination, and doing a 'Monarchy Slingshot.' Then MT for the last push maybe.

Notes that were scribbled on the back of four days from the Simpsons Trivia-a-Day Desk Calender:
(Italicized comments were post game, also the QSC info)
AI=1 [edit: so... NoAIpatrol=0 ]
4000 BC Settle in place
??? Trade Spain for CB
??? Popped Warrior Code
2710 BC Popped Myst
2030 BC Writing > Poly in 20
1725 BC Lisbon riots. ARRGH!
1625 BC Settler race to 2 Silk/Cow/Wheat. I'm going to be sick.
1425 BC Poly > Philo in 9 at 100% with -7 gpt.
1225 BC Monarchy Slingshot a success. 4 turn revolution. Didn't 'gamble' mostly cause I'm not sure how.
??? 4th city founded. Too low, I know.
c1000BC 2nd Settler race. This time for Horses!
??? Curragh finds GH on E Island.


QSC score: 3482 (according to Crp, let me say here that Dianthus' and Ainwood's utilities make this size game playable to me. Thank you!!)
Cities: 4
Pop: 10
Units: 2 Settlers
3 Workers
3 Scouts
9 Warriors (7 appear to be MPs)
1 Curragh
Contacts: Spain


1000bc

c775 BC Horses not hooked up yet

Records are non-existent for the next 1500 years, but stories of a Great War with a land called Spain exist. They tell about a Statue of Zeus that the priests would use to conjure fearsome mounted warriors, untill our noble forces banished that Statue to the void. The story continues, and ends with the only link from that past. The Great Library. A building that still stands. This 'Legend of Spain' is mostly kept alive by a strange group of blue people in the oddly named town of Murcia, who mostly hang out by this Great Library telling their own tales of death and destruction. Wierd people. There is one other disputed artifact. A crudely drawn note, dated at 600-700 AD that simply reads:

Hook up IRON!!!!!!

1080 AD Spain destroyed. Right after I took this snapshot.


1080ad

1200 AD DOW Arabia
1275 AD 1st Great Leader. 2 Turns before MT.
1355 AD Golden Age!!!


1355ad


1355ad

??? Capture Sistene Chapel from Arabia. Thinking about possible Space Ship try, as my quick win is not too looking too quick.
1410 AD 2nd Mil GL, Alfonso appears 2 turns after Heroic Epic is built.
1410 AD Newton's Uni built. Still don't know Victory C, but probably Space Race??
??? Trade Korea Theory of Gravity for all their 1000 gold. Now I will attack.
1525 AD Koreans meet fate. Going for Space Race. Going to put HURT on Maya. They had double my culture and were rising fast.
I'm really dissappointed by how long it took me to gather my forces and move them to a SOD for Maya. First a coastal city, and then the capital.
1630 AD Siege on Maya begins. After about 2 hits and 8 misses from cannons, the lone catapult in the stack gets a hit! my rolls improved from there, and the catapult continued to be suprisingly accurate
1650 AD Take out Maya Capitol. It jumps to Sparta, on the next land mass over!
??? Hurt Mayans.
1715 AD Take Copan and Smith's from Maya. 12 turns to Atomic Theory. Decide to Revolt. Switch to Rep. Parts. Go to Republic if I do?? Draw 8 turn Anarchy.
1750 AD Maya Culture Threat over, but it seems after signing peace with England they had some extra Calvary to throw at me. They destroy the two towns I had already settled, and were set to take back Smith's in Copan, easily, but at the last moment I realized I could ask for peace. And they took it, and gave me 40 gold.


1750ad Most of the stack in Copan is workers and cannon.

1752 AD Maya seems passive. Screw it, I'm going Demo. Advice? Obvious? As I feared my tech rate went up one turn. Went back and checked. Actually went down a turn. From 8 to 7 for Rep. Parts. MM all cities to max science to get Rep. Parts in 5.
1772 AD Hoover's Slingshot. Oporto TOE > Hoover's in 12 at 68 spt. Should move the Palace. Tested this in post game analysis with a late leader I got. Doesn't seem to matter much, to build FP in 1st ring city, which I did. This just seems wrong though, cause that city is already pretty much corruption free in the first ring. That alexman C3C corruption article is great. The parts I could understand anyhow. Actually I liked the parts I didn't understand the best.
1794 AD Hoover's in Oporto
1856 AD Notice London's culture is double Oporto. 7304 to 3258. Watch for a few turns. 7472 to 3418. It's not a threat.

..... Lead the way in tech, making what gold I can along the way.

1950 AD Space Ship Launch


Post Game Analysis:
I liked the Monarch Philosophy gambit. I don't like going to Republic that early. Although I seem to be convinced (mostly by lurking the SGOTM threads and reading these spoilers) that is the quickest way. I haven't really practiced it. I have too many troops too early. I was pleased with the timing of my Golden Age and switch to Democracy.

I made some HUGE mistakes that cost me in this game. Just when I'm starting to really produce troops for the Spain invasion, a lone Spain warrior pops out of the fog to the North right next to one of my empty cities. I decide to be cute and cut a deal where I am giving her ~20 gold per turn for a tech, because I'm not ready for war. I'm also thinking she will break the deal by attacking me, and I get the tech for free. I can't believe I ended up giving her over 400 gold pieces, cause I didn't want to lose one city and start the war early. "Here, let me give you twenty gold a turn for twenty turns, and then I'll attack you."

Another mistake I made was agreeing to peace with Rome, not remembering all the war happiness I was going to lose. This was during the late tech race, so it really stung. I got them to soon redeclare anyway.

Great map!, and This was a fun challenge!

Game: COTM 06
Date submitted: 2004-11-29
Reference number: 5593
Your name: ljdjr
Software Version: C3C 1.22f for Windows
Entry class: open
Game status: Spaceship Victory for Portugal
Game date: 1951 AD
Firaxis score: 4611
Jason score: 4953
Time played: 95:46:26

I also plan to break this up next time. I have no internet at home right now.

 

[Dianthus]

I've just finished, and thought I ought to at least write something. Right from the beginning I was intending to do a 100K culture for this game, but I was running very short of time. Rather than change to a quicker victory condition I decided to turn it into a 1CCC (1 Continent Culture Challenge ). Not surprisingly this didn't result in a very good score (Just 6552 Jason points), but it looks like I beat the date of at least 1 person!

Here are some minimaps:



and a graph:


Just a couple of notes:
The 2 jumps in Culture Per Turn are due to rushing ~70 Libraries, then ~70 Temples. From then on I was just drip rushing Universities/Cathedrals (a mixture of gold and disbanding units).

Just before I started really going for the culture I completed my forbidden palace near the start position, then did a palace jump to near the middle of the continent to reduce corruption.

My Golden Age was triggered by killing a Mayan galley near our shores that had just dropped 2 Bowmen.

Most of the game my military consisted of just 12 Cavalry, arranged in 4 groups of 3 such that all tiles on the continent could be reached by 3 or more units in just 1 turn. There were around 3 or 4 attacks, but they all consisted of just 2 Bowmen, which were easily seen off by the Cavalry.

I enjoyed quite a bit of war happiness in this game. The Mayans declared war when I refused a tribute, and I remained at war with them until they were killed by the Greeks (must have been around half the game!). Long term war isn't a problem in The Republic when you don't lose units/towns or end turns in enemy territory.

To preempt the obvious question, that's what 93 towns on the home continent looks like . I could have fitted more on, but didn't move any of the original Spanish towns and avoided settling on resources.

 

[bluebox]

nice graph, dianthus. two questions:
what culture-generating improvements did you build before the libraries' rush in ~950AD?
Did you make an attempt to get Temple of Artemis or did you expect it not to be helpful?

 

[JonathanValjean]

Great job, Dianthus! I tried to do the same, a One Continent Culture Challenge, but I couldn't top the culturally-rich Koreans... I had to salvage the game with a Spaceship Victory. I finished with 157,000 cultural points, but Korea had 104,000 at that time.

 

[Darkness]

Just submitted my game, so I made it after all….

Predator
Noaipatrol=0
Going for the cow

Enter the IA in 690AD

690AD – Discover magnetism, start steam power. Found New Leiria
700AD – Newcastle, Hastings and Canterbury captured
710AD – Brighton and London (ToA) captured
720AD – Coventry and York captured
730AD – Warwick captured. Elite cavalry attacking Liverpool spawns sixth GL. Liverpool captured. English eliminated. GL becomes army. New Évora and New Braga founded
740AD – Discover Steam power, start electricity
760AD – Because my reputation is shot anyway, due to my error with the gpt deal with the Maya in 590AD, I decide to be totally honourless for the rest of the game. Declare war on Rome. Capture Syracuse. Rome eliminated
780AD – Trade Physics to Greece for PP and 9 gold. Then declare war on Greece. Sell physics to the Maya for 25 gold and 38 gpt.
790AD – Thessalonika captured
800AD – Discover electricity, start Rep. Parts. Capture Athens (Sistine Chapel) and Sparta.
810AD – Pharsalos (Copernicus’) captured. New Faro founded
IT – Athens flips back to the Greeks
820AD – Athens re-captured. Delphi, Mycenae and Argos captured
830AD – Capture Corinth
840AD – Establish embassy with the Maya. Give them Theory of Gravity for an MA with the Greeks and 60 gold. Capture Thermopylae and Ephesus.
850AD – Discover Rep. Parts, start medicine.
870AD – Capture Knossos. The Maya have move an SoD next to one of my cities nowhere near (or even on their path) to the last Greek city. We tell them to get lost or declare war. They declare. Cuello captured
880AD – The last Greek city, Herakleia captured. The Greeks don’t die so they have a settler on a ship somewhere. Auxactun captured
890AD – Medicine discovered, start sanitation. Piedras Negras captured. The Greeks found Eretria on my home island….
920AD – My people are getting weary of the war so we make peace with the Maya for 170 gold. Make peace with the Greeks and gift them the city to which they’ll be relocated for the next 1100 years…
930AD - Discover sanitation, start scientific method with one scientist.
IT – The formerly Greek city Knossos flips to the Maya…
940AD – Start positioning troops for the final push…
960AD - New Rio Janeiro, New São Paulo and New Luanda founded. Declare war on Greece, raze Eretria. Declare war on Maya, capture Knossos
970AD – Coba razed, Kaminaljuyu razed. Lagartero captured. New Alcácer do Sal founded
1050AD – Make peace with Greeks
1090AD – Maya destroyed, Enter full-fledged milking mode
1530AD – Enter modern age. Gift Greece into the modern age. They get computers. Trade for it with some optional techs.

After this I started rushing improvements. Then I set the lux slider at 90%, enabled all governors and pressed the spacebar every couple of minutes…
Considering I was a ‘little’ pressed for time this month, so I was quite hurried when milking, probably costing me a lot of points.

Histograph win in 2050 AD

Time: 77h31m31s
Firaxis: 12158
Jason: 11000+

This is probably not good enough for a medal, but the cow should be a definite possibility here…