Conquest 12: Hunting tips.

[Methos]

but I think it might be a little too late for some of the advice.

That’s my problem as well. The only time I have free to play Civ is on the weekends, so I can’t really afford to wait for responses to continue. By the time I was able to read Redbad’s response I had already reached the IA.

You obviously won't be able to use all this information during this particular game, but you can start your next game differently taking into account at least a few of these pointers.

This is the exact reason I use this thread. I may not be able to use everyone’s advice on this game but I can go back through my saves and look into everyone else’s observations. I believe this thread will be more use in seeing what was done wrong or how it could be done different so as to better play future games. This is exactly what I need and am definitely grateful for all advice and criticism of my games. BTW, I have no problem with criticsism, it's obvious I'm doing something wrong and that is exactly why I am on this thread. So criticize and advise away please.

I would suggest that most new players should start out trying for domination victories (or at least dominating the starting continent ASAP

I seriously considered this several games back, as my warmongering definitely needs improvement. I attempted a domination victory in the XOTM where we were the Mongols but screwed that up in the AA. I need to look into this more so will download the domination winners QSC’s from some of the previous games.

Capture all the iron. Your opponents will be defenseless until Gunpowder. The iron placement is very generous in this game, with all 3 sources relatively close to your borders.

Hmm, this is something I didn’t even notice and would be of major benefit in the game. Thanks, its things like this that I don’t even think of.

 

[THEMike]

Capture all the iron. Your opponents will be defenseless until Gunpowder. The iron placement is very generous in this game, with all 3 sources relatively close to your borders.

Right, I'm going to turn off research following this advice and concentrate on crushing the french next.

However, after that it's the ruskies, and they already have gunpowder. I do too, but I can't see any saltpeter in any of the territory I can see. But clearly the russians ahve it somewhere.

Anything I can do to improve my chances agaist the musket? My ansars died in droves on the Ottoman muskets in Istambul...

 

[budweiser]

If they already have guns, then you need to step up to cavalry. Turn research back on and get military tradition. Meanwhile you can make slow progress by making a stack of 6-8 bombard units, covered by a few pike/muskets and bombard the towns before you send in the ansar. If you capture thier iron and salt peter, they will be back to pikes and spears and the ansar can advance freely again.

 

[namliaM]

Well for my first attempt at GOTM i would like some critiques.
Here are some saves and the timeline. Posted also in the "official" thread.

Thanks in advance for your time and trouble.

To speak before my turn, I did not create a real settler factory. I think that to be mistake #1.

 

[Stilgar08]

Since I wanted this thread and I'm reading it with interest I just want to point out, that I will be part of the "need support" group in the next GOTM/COTM, that's for sure! Unfortunately I didn't do a timeline therefore I don't want to interrupt, but in case you think there are not as many "help-seekers" as you hoped for (had that feeling from a message I read..). That's not the case..

 

[killercane]

@ Namlia- I looked at your 1000 BC and 310 BC saves. You seem to be off to an good start.

Points I would make:

1) A forest chop on one of the games and subsequent irrigation around your capital would have been good in the early going. I think mining the cow was good however, as that location lacked bonus grasses and shield producing tiles until you can get that hill mined. I see you've already regretted not making a 4 turn factory there. Edit: Redbad gives good advice on how to set up such a factory below.

2) I dont think you are going for 20K, correct me if Im wrong, so why the great library build in the capital? Prebuild for Sun Tzu's? You have a clear tech lead on everyone, rush to get the Ansars and take control of the continent. You wont need the Art of War or the Library at all. Unless you gift the AIs to the middle ages and swindle their free techs, I would max out research to chivalry. You're missing out on lots of horses out of your capital by building a wonder.

3) At first I thought your western coastal city was oddly placed since it cannot grow, but I assume you wanted to get a curragh out of there and the courthouse prebuild is for a harbor. Edit: going back again and paying more attention, Im wondering about Kufah on the eastern coast. The wines to the south would have seemed a better place for that settler IMHO.

 

[Redbad]

@namliaM

I saw your 1000BC save and did a small portion of your timeline. I noticed you still have a rather small empire at 1000BC (5 cities), yet your capitol is in a supreme location. Let me try to point out something about settler- and worker-factories.

At 3850BC after moving the scout this is what was visible in your game:

By what's allready visible now you can get a 4-turn settlerfactory with your capitol and a 3-turn workerfactory with your second city.

Mecca is at size 4, has a granary and is working 2 bonusgrass, the cow and a deer. That give's 1 (citycenter) + 4 (2 bg) + 2 (mined cow) = 7 shields. The extra food is 2 (citycenter) + 1 (mined cow) + 2 (irrigated deer) = 5 food.
After 4 turns Mecca will have grown 2 pop. and will have collected 7 + 9 + 8 + 10 = 34 shields. So it can produce every 4 turns a settler.

Medina is at size 3, has a granary and is working 2 bonusgrass and a deer. That give's 1 (citycenter) + 4 (2 bg) - 1 (corruption) = 4 shields. The extra food is 2 (citycenter) + 2 (irrigated deer) = 4 food. After 3 turns Medina will have grown 1 pop. and will have collected 12 shields. So it can produce a worker every 3 turns.

At monarch-level with one luxury connected (the incense) Mecca needs 2 warriors to stay happy and Medina needs no military police for staying happy. When such a situation had been realized you would have had twice as many cities at 1000BC, imho. Plus all other cities could have concentrated on military, wonders, research or whatever else has priority.

 

[Jove]

One more point to add to DaveMcW's advice. The Ansar is your Unique Unit, so the first time you win a battle with one, you enter your golden age. You really ought to be able to have enough gold for upgrades in this period if you want it. One strategy is to attack someone weak with the Ansar, get the Golden Age started, and don't fight for awhile, just using all your gold to upgrade/rush units until you have a killer force.
EDIT: Ooops, I missed the second page of the thread. If they have guns, yes, you'll want Cavalry.

 

[namliaM]

@all
To be honest I didnt dare chop them games, in fear of losing the 2 shields from the forest. In the end I guess the 4 food is more power tho you loose 2 shields.

@killercane
No never did a 20k allways dom or conq. seeing as they are all on Regent or lower and I gather are the easier wins I dont dare (yet) to go for "broke" on this higher level. Tho i do feel its not that much more difficult at the moment. But that might be due to the "good" start i made and not to the point where my skill may have grown.

I was intending on teh GL beeing a prebuild for leo's (i think, to halve the upgrade cost of 30+? (a lot anyway) horses to ansars. I have not proceded after my post of the saves. Leo's IIRC is 600 shields so I see your point on the many horses. If indeed 600 then thats 20 horses, but then also 20 more to upgrade..... Costing yet more gold. *sigh* I cannot imagine ever making enough....

The thought for Baghdad (the western coastal town) was to pull in the horses and yes Courthouse will go to Harbor, which then will grow to a hopefully nicely contributing city.

My thought for not going for the (french) wines is that I allready had wines and the town on the east coast (I am assuming Kufah) would be more productive as it is closer to my capital.

@Redbad
I did have 6 towns but 1, najran just se of them horses in the 1000bc save, got razed by the russians in 1150. I might have had 7 if I had given into the russian demand. And/or if i had timed it a little better to be prepared at that moment instead of having an unguarded city.

I "dont do math" on paper as such, I play by feel (at the moment). Looking at your picks makes sence (kind off) but I think if i were to be as smart as to settle mecca there, I would never ever in my right mind put medina there. I am more of an optimalist. Tho I have been contemplating puting the citys (much) closer as i have read and understand the theories that your wasting all them tiles for much of the game till you get either shakes and/or hospitals. But its hard to break old habits.

Shields are added to production after growth are they not?

I felt i took a lot of risks having only 2 warriors and 1 of them beeing from a GH I would have expected to get some grief about that. Is it "normal" to allmost have none units till 1500 or so?

Greets & thanx I think I will for go the wonder build and try and get the cash to upgrade somehow & go for chivalry ASAP.

See how I manage to go on with your advise.

Also I will try and see what would happen if I did do the chop and the settler factory as proficide by Redbad.

 

[THEMike]

I "dont do math" on paper as such, I play by feel (at the moment). Looking at your picks makes sence (kind off) but I think if i were to be as smart as to settle mecca there, I would never ever in my right mind put medina there. I am more of an optimalist. Tho I have been contemplating puting the citys (much) closer as i have read and understand the theories that your wasting all them tiles for much of the game till you get either shakes and/or hospitals. But its hard to break old habits.

Same here. I don't do spreadsheets, or mental calculation, or examine in minute detail the production of a tile, I grab what looks the best with my minimal knowledge. I might miss some points doing this. For example, I clearly don't put enough stock on "being on a river" for the boost. Which I will do from now on.

Rather than having a hard calculating approach I do a mental weighting of what I think will be best. Without thinking "Hmm three shields for an x with a y vs two shields for the x with no y.". I just think, if I go there I'll pull in those tiles which look good and those two, but if I move one over, then I get a bit of that too. Not calculating that the "bit of that" vs the river bonus is actualy a big loss.

I don't know if I even want to go that way. Seems sitting and calculating odds and scores (tho good for maxing your final score) isn't fun to do.

 

[ainwood]

Well, looks like some good feedback here and there (although maybe a bit more structure and organisation might help). Would you like a middle-ages version of this thread?

 

[Methos]

Yes, if you don't mind.

 

[THEMike]

I'd love it too.

 

[ainwood]

Ok - done (here)

BTW - we'll run this in the deity game as well.