Conquest game, and I'm surrounded by vassals!

[Rooseville]

EDIT: this is a game against the AI, not another human.

I'm playing a conquest-only game as Roosevelt. Alexander is the top dog on the map and is friendly towards me because I've given him everything he wants, including joining him in every freaking war he's decided to start. The problem is that, each time we went to war together, our target would capitulate to him right as I was about to deliver the killing blow...so now I'm the only civ who isn't under Alexander's thrall.

This is a horrible situation, admittedly the product of my own stupidity. I'm basically rushing production on military units full-time and trying not to piss anybody off, biding my time until one of the vassals breaks free so I can fall on them.

I have a couple of ideas/questions, and would greatly appreciate any feedback.

1. Can Alexander's vassals war amongst one another? If so I might try to sow a war amongst them behind the scenes in an effort to break the stalemate.

2. Alexander is very friendly towards me, but I wonder if one of his vassals might start a war with me and bring everyone else in, or if I'm just naturally going to be in his sights?

I know these are abstract and/or foolish questions but, again, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading, and for all the great resources on the site. I can tell this is a community that I'm really going to enjoy contributing to.

 

[suspendinlight]

1. No his vassals cannot war amongst each other.

2. No his vassals cannot declare war on you. Vassals cannot declare war or make peace so don't worry about keeping them happy.

If the vassals are capitulated, it is unlikely they will break free. There are certain conditions that must be met for capitulated vassals to break free. Your only option is to declare war and hope for the best.

 

[Rooseville]

Your only option is to declare war and hope for the best.

Thanks! I was afraid of that, but my military-industrial complex is clicking and popping well enough that I can probably build a large enough army to defend my territory and take a few cities before seeking peace and rebuilding. One bit of homework I haven't done is to send in spies so I can gauge what I'm up against--that's the first item on my to-do list.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

The fastest way to set al those vassals free is to raze as many cities of alex as you can.

 

[dankok8]

I don't know the type of map you're playing or your tech level but I would keep about 1/2 of the total force (defensive units) defending (you can draft/whip/rush-buy more if you come under serious attack) and send the other half (mostly offensive units) at one of Alex's vassals .. kill his vassals one by one or if they break free from Alex once you take 50% of their territory, you can vassalize them yourself.. repeat for others or just go at Alex if you think you can do it ..

 

[CivCorpse]

I don't know the type of map you're playing or your tech level but I would keep about 1/2 of the total force (defensive units) defending (you can draft/whip/rush-buy more if you come under serious attack) and send the other half (mostly offensive units) at one of Alex's vassals .. kill his vassals one by one or if they break free from Alex once you take 50% of their territory, you can vassalize them yourself.. repeat for others or just go at Alex if you think you can do it ..

I don't think it works that way. They need to be larger than 50% of alex in population and land area. Taking their cities moves them FARTHER from breaking free. Attacking Alex and making him smaller is the key. If you take the AI cities, then you pretty much guartentee they will never break free.

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

Vassals will break free if they loose more then 50% of their territory/cities.

 

[Morgawr]

The problem is that, each time we went to war together, our target would capitulate to him right as I was about to deliver the killing blow

I find myself in these kinds of situations frequently too. One solution I found is to bribe your war ally to make peace with the enemy when you're about to deliver your killing blow. But don't make peace yourself so you can kill them off before they can capitulate to anyone.

But now that all the AI's have already capitulated to Alexander, as the folks here already pointed out you can either

1. Attack the vassals and capture/raze their cities so they lose 50% of their land are and break free

2. Attack Alexander and capture/raze his cities and cause him to lose lots of land & population so the vassals get to the point where their land & population are >50% of Alexander's and they break free

Either case leads to you warring with he rest of the world so I would go for #2 if you have to - the big kill.

P.S. The good thing is, if Alexander is friendly with you he will never declare war on you and it doesn't matter what his vassals think about you. So YOU get to choose the best time to attack. Once YOU obtain any vassals though, it gets very hard to keep anyone friendly with you because they need to be friendly with every single one of your vassals not to declare war.

 

[Rooseville]

I find myself in these kinds of situations frequently too.

Glad I'm not the only guy to fall for this. I'm honestly leaning towards picking a fight with his least favorite vassal, and taking advantage of the worldwide war to take a few key cities from everybody so as to solidify my position on a couple of disparate continents.

I'm not sure how Alexander will feel about me once I attack one of his vassals, but I hope he at least stays pleased with me, because taking him head-on seems like a suicidal option.

Alex is keeping pace with my military production because he has twice as many cities as me, and he has The Pentagon so most of his units are promoted higher than mine. If I can nibble at the edges and come out as a viable second superpower then I know that I can out-produce him and afford to be more aggressive.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'll check in and give a status update once I get a chance to see what happens when oneputs oneself squarely in the sights of four civs

 

[Sarek]

I can probably build a large enough army to defend my territory and take a few cities before seeking peace and rebuilding.

My bet is that once you set the wheels in motion, peace will be a long time coming? Once you target one, they all come at you. Not knowing what you're really up against, you would have to do some serious damage to Alex to be in a position to negotiate peace with him (and the vassals).

And frankly I'm not sure that if a vassal breaks free WHILE you're warring with all...once you do have a chance to make peace with Alex... they wouldn't continue to attack you if they are strong enough and smell an opportunity?

Interesting position...please report on the ultimate outcome (good or bad)!

 

[duende29]

You need to take down Alex ASAP. You don't need to worry much about the vassals. Yes, they DoW with their master, but one thing is DoW and another is warring effectively (if at all). Worry about Alex and not the rest. If they lost their wars and capitulated they most likely:

1. Don't have a lot of cities.
2. Don't have a lot of units.
3. Are not very advanced.

 

[Morgawr]

I'm not sure how Alexander will feel about me once I attack one of his vassals, but I hope he at least stays pleased with me, because taking him head-on seems like a suicidal option.

Um, you realize that once you attack one of his vassals you're basically declaring war on Alexander, right? He'll be furious with you for sure - no way to avoid that

 

[Rooseville]

Alright, after one long night and a stroke of good luck (or inadvertent skill) I think I'm in a position to win, or at least get a step closer.

When I posted this message, Saladin's was a border state between mine and Alex's mainland (we both have satellite cities on various islands). While preparing for all-out global warfare, focusing exclusively on military production, Saladin's cultural borders swallowed my only source of oil. This angered me, so I decided to get my oil well back. I switched my border states to producing cultural buildings, deployed every great artist that sprang up to the area, cut loose my men of the cloth, etc..

As luck would have it, I took enough of Saladin's territory to break his vassalage to Alexander. My army, which was ready for worldwide war, was able to take Saladin out in two turns. The new cities allowed me to push military production even further--probably a little too far--and I was able to launch a very effective attack against the remaining three civs. I played through the first turn of my global war last night.

Um, you realize that once you attack one of his vassals you're basically declaring war on Alexander, right? He'll be furious with you for sure - no way to avoid that

Upon declaring war on one of Alexander's vassals he did, indeed, become annoyed with me, though not furious. Not yet, at least. Through excessive force I was able to take eleven cities, and found an additional one, eliminating a civ in the process. I haven't hit the enter key yet because I know the counter-attack will take forever, but if I can hold the cities I've taken then I'll be able to push forward and at least weaken Alexander enough to demand peace on my own terms (unless I'm able to just finish the drill in one fell swoop).

The key here: I was able to break one vassal free through cultural means, knock them out and leverage that extra territory to build an army that can take on the other three civs. The downside: it took forever, and by the time I've completed a conquest victory I'll be the proud owner of one big desert because global warming is ravaging the planet and a nuke hasn't even been launched. Not yet, at least

Merry Christmas, and thanks to all of ya'll for your help!