Conquest Request: UN Votes & Lesser Civs

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

Simple request: (via java or C++)

1)SMAC-style voting on global issues once UN is built;

i.e. more trade; allow nuclear weapons; allow UN missions during which a country is able to deploy UN troops (special tag) in a crisis region and blockade natural resources (attack of UN troops brings along severe retaliation of world community); vote on global emargos [\B] on warrying nations

Comment: I am no fan of the "You won because you built the UN building" -way of winning. This would mean that the USA would have "won" in the real world just because the UN HQ is in New York- but that can hardly be said.


1) Lesser Civs

Why dont they make "lesser civilization" i.e. A single city state without the possibility to ever build settlers but with special units or a bonus of some sort (i.e. a specificaly placed resource tile underneath the city itself). There wouldnt have to be a specific civ colour for these.


Comment:
Only thing needed would be Leader pcx and flc files with an civilopedia entry !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There should be a possibility to conquer them, take them over by cultural means, or to ask them to join you- the latter case should include them paying you tax and providing you with military units and trade preference of resources, but without you controling them entirelly (anyone who has ever played imperialism knows what I am talking about)- what I miss from SMAC is the option to place own troops in such allied or subverted cities and to get these sub- civilization's votes for UN votings (as in Imperialism again)

 

[Inhalaattori]

Lesser civs. Very good idea. I believe they have these in scenarios, like moche and phoenicians. Maybe finnish/ finno-ugrian could be this kind of civ too.
These kind of civs would make scenario- making much easier too.

---

Oh what is life but an open grave
What is today but tomorrow’s yesterday

Yeah it’s a skeleton farm

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

Well we could (had we got more complete leaderheads and disallow them settlers) simulate these- but what would be missing is the different behaviour of them as lesser actors. Also would the subjugation effect the really interesting idea behind my thoughts- not conquering or absorbing, but rather linking lesser civs to your sphere of interest as vassals without destroying but merely influencing their INDEPENDENT cultural identity.

Perhaps one could even allow weapon deals with them to build up their military and infrastructure?!

 

[Mr Black]

Originally posted by W.i.n.t.e.r
1) Lesser Civs

Why dont they make "lesser civilization" i.e. A single city state without the possibility to ever build settlers but with special units or a bonus of some sort (i.e. a specificaly placed resource tile underneath the city itself). There wouldnt have to be a specific civ colour for these.

You have just described resource huts and barbarian huts.

 

[Ian Beale]

Yes you've just reminded me- can we sell units to barbarians?! These could act as terrorists! If you are found out- you could suffer a severe rep hit! W.I.N.T.E.R i agree with your views on the UN- at the moment it is practically irrelevant! Building the UN and becoming secretary general is a crap way of winning a game!

 

[sealman]

Originally posted by Mr Black


You have just described resource huts and barbarian huts.

And they would be conquered just as easliy

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

hmmm, yes I think it may sound very much like goody huts at first. I am though thinking about one step further:

A lesser civ could be able to make treaties (of course not alliances but ... well, lesser treaties with larger civilizations only- yet if you should attack one of these other small civs may notice your aggressive play and combat you in the fear of them being next)

As I said, this is mostly from the game Imperialism and Imperialism 2

So lesser civs should evolve over time (i.e. develop techs and build city improvements), should be able to do their own share of diplomacy, and bear unique bonuses (not really like a free gift in shape of "settlers of a lost civ that agree to join you" but more like you being able to access unique resources or units through dealing with lesser civs.) Perhaps some world wonders could be given to lesser civs to give them a strength of some sort that would allow them to survive the earlier stages of the game. Powerl lesser civs could perhaps even last until late stages of the game. Diplomatically they could be neutral, subjected to a civ, in a defenive treaty with a larger civ. And they could be tempted to change sides as they see fit (if they are subdued) and aid another larger civ...

I dont want another "barb hut" that merely spits out a few units at turn x,y,z,...n. Just picture Switzerland (spelling?) as a lesser civ. Give it a trade bonus of some sort, give it units that make it hard to be conquered and a high culture. A special tech/resource could be numbered banking accounts- or sth.

 

[sealman]

the lesser civ would still be overrun by sheer numbers. Play in the editor and take away one civ's ability to create settlers and give him a few extra techs.

I would put good money that that civ would not be around too long.

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

depends: give them powerful units.... lemme think..... right- Our lesser civ is Sparta: Instead of spearmen with attack=1, defense=2 these could get Spartan Hoplites (by Kryten) with attack=2 defense=4 which would make them quite a jawbreaker to swallow as they'd have a defence value of pikemen, without the real power to attack you as soon as you build your own spearmen. Now make the units free of support costs (or at least cheap to produce and maintain). This could be carried over tofuture eras.

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

An in imperialism, if one large country attack a minor nation it would call for help (usually another largte nation would see its interest being tampered with by your invasion and declare war on you, aiding the lesser state)

unfortunatl we cannot simulate this in civ3

 

[music_theory7]

Aha you guys are talking about something I've wanted since civ2. The probelm is that they will get over run by sheer numbers epecially culture we'll have to change some things. I would think that most of these will not last to the mordern age. Imagine a lesser civ that takes the minor countries of europe for example, they could be used as a buffer zone. I have similar things in my thread Civil War, Annexations, Vassal Countries in the conquest section of the forum.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

OK, this is how I see a possible solution shaping up for "Lesser Civs". OK, first up, BOTF had minor races which, as WINTER suggested, give the major powers a unique bonus when they 'assimilate' them into their nation. This could be in the form of research bonuses for specific 'types' of techs, increased wealth/production capacity, across your Civ, a new Small or Great Wonder that can ONLY be built in one of the minor civs cities, a new trait (like a commercial/industrious civ that brings a seafaring minor civ into it's empire!) or even better relations with Major Civs belonging to other cultural groups. The Flip-side is that you can ONLY get this ability if you assimilate the nation Diplomatically. If you conquer it, or it culture flips to you, then you do NOT get these benefits!! Of course, if they're hostile to you, they could prove such a thorn that you don't CARE if they join you ! In this case, though, other neighbouring Major Civs might come to their protection, 'cause they DO want their special abilities!! Oh, btw, these Civs should also be a source of trade, rop's and MPP's! Minor Civs should produce a small amount of culture, they MIGHT be more advanced, in some techs, than the Major Civs (Techs you would get if you add them,peacefully to your Civ!), and they should probably be more immune to cultural assimilation than Major Civs! Conquering them should also cause you to suffer a bigger Rep hit than attacking a minor power! All of these solutions could help minor civs to remain in the game for MUCH longer!!! Anyway, just a few thoughts to consider !!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Ant509y]

My ideas from a while back may be compatible with this idea also. At the time, I was mentioning that barb huts should be drastically improved- given a cu;ltural boundary of 0, for instance, which could eventually grow to a bou dary of 1, and also have many of the abilities of these lesser civs you talk about. They would be able to make a lesser kind of treaty, and even sell mercenaries and so forth. Eventually, they would try to become a civ in their own right by gaining enough encampments, or capturing one of the real civ's cities. And they would pop up randomly from time to time, as well! Oh, and they could also appear insdie your territory, but only in those areas where no city square is touching. [you know those kinds of places]. I think that may be a sufficient version of a "lesser civ".. right?

 

[crunk munki]

I'd say that minor civ cities should pop up like barbarian camps. They'd be less agressive than barbarians, but still barbarians (no communication).