Conquest victory

[ahmedhadzi]

My understanding is that as of this civ version you only need to win your opponents capitol in order to win the conquest victory. I'm not even sure if they still kept the domination victory and what would be requirements for that (because there is not much point in winning a lot of other developed cities anymore, if... see the question below)?

My question is once you do win let's say one capitol of your first neighbor, what happens to the rest of his or hers cities? They (most likely) don't cease to exist, but under whose control are they now? Does this become your puppet state or you automatically win control over all cities (if this is the case I see this as MAJOR point for abusing AI = not good), because this kind of, doesn't make sense in reality. Can you still enter negotiations with the defeated leader, does he has to obey you on every matter? Is there going to be mechanism for his state to break free again and reinstate capitol at some other location?

Any thoughts?

 

[D712]

once you do win let's say one capitol of your first neighbor, what happens to the rest of his or hers cities? They (most likely) don't cease to exist, but under whose control are they now? Does this become your puppet state or you automatically win control over all cities (if this is the case I see this as MAJOR point for abusing AI = not good), because this kind of, doesn't make sense in reality. Can you still enter negotiations with the defeated leader, does he has to obey you on every matter? Is there going to be mechanism for his state to break free again and reinstate capitol at some other location?

Any thoughts?

I used to think that too. Actually once you take a civ's capitol they still exist and are still viable for winning. They only thing is that now they have to capture back their old capitol and every other capitol. The civ isnt under your control, and it still exists. Nothing changes except they get a new capitol.

 

[ahmedhadzi]

Well if that's the case, that's plain idiotic! That mean that I will have to have a city, presumably in the middle of foreign country, most likely pressured by their culture and under their constant siege.

 

[D712]

Well if that's the case, that's plain idiotic! That mean that I will have to have a city, presumably in the middle of foreign country, most likely pressured by their culture and under their constant siege.

Thats what makes it difficult. But if I was you, I wouldnt want to go just for the capitol, because you would have to go through the WHOLE country and then try to hold that city for the rest of the game. It would be better to take the cities between your civ, and their capitol.

 

[King Jason]

Well if that's the case, that's plain idiotic! That mean that I will have to have a city, presumably in the middle of foreign country, most likely pressured by their culture and under their constant siege.

So.... conquer the rest of them? Or at the very least conquer the surrounding cities as defensive buffers?

It's a conquest victory... You think it's idiotic to have to fight for it? Just because you don't have to conquer the whole enemy empire, that doesn't mean doing so isn't a good idea.

I think all this really solves is the necessity to of getting every single last city of the enemy empire. If you beat a enemy civ down to 3 cities on the outskirts of it's empire, or w/e... you don't really need to take the effort to capture those useless cities if you don't want to, since you already have the capital.

 

[Calouste]

People look at the new definition of the Conquest victory the wrong way. Practically it is not "you only have to capture the capital" as much as it is "you still have to bring your opponent's empire to its knees, but you don't have to go through the tedium of mopping up the last cities if he doesn't want to capitulate".

 

[BobDole]

People look at the new definition of the Conquest victory the wrong way. Practically it is not "you only have to capture the capital" as much as it is "you still have to bring your opponent's empire to its knees, but you don't have to go through the tedium of mopping up the last cities if he doesn't want to capitulate".

Yeah. You shouldn't be just making a mad dash for every capital and ignoring every other city. It just makes it so you don't have to invade that island city that the AI decided to put next to a glacier in what's supposed to be Antarctica. It just saves you from the tedium of taking every single city in the entire game.

 

[Schuesseled]

My understanding is that as of this civ version you only need to win your opponents capitol in order to win the conquest victory. I'm not even sure if they still kept the domination victory and what would be requirements for that (because there is not much point in winning a lot of other developed cities anymore, if... see the question below)?

My question is once you do win let's say one capitol of your first neighbor, what happens to the rest of his or hers cities? They (most likely) don't cease to exist, but under whose control are they now? Does this become your puppet state or you automatically win control over all cities (if this is the case I see this as MAJOR point for abusing AI = not good), because this kind of, doesn't make sense in reality. Can you still enter negotiations with the defeated leader, does he has to obey you on every matter? Is there going to be mechanism for his state to break free again and reinstate capitol at some other location?

Any thoughts?

domination victory wouldn't work well with this game, as it seems to favour the slowest expansion of cities in civ yet. However there is a complete kills option, i dunno if this means you need to kill units as well as cities to kill of a civ, or if it means conquest victory requires complete kills for victories.

 

[ahmedhadzi]

My point here is that it is obvious that this game favors mindless warmongering from what I see so far. Let's say you are playing small continent map 2 civs on your continent 2 on the other (on the side note it looks to me that by mid game almost ALL OF THE MAP is explored, based on some screen shots, which sucks by the way), and you do a rush take a capitol of your first opponent, and corner him down. Now on the other continent let's say that both civs happen to have coastal capitols (and any unit becomes a boat when it comes to water), once you hit Astronomy or whatever is the equivalent that you can traverse the oceans, bum BUM you go over take 2 more cities and you claim that you dominated the world with only ever taking 3 cities, that my friends IMHO sucks and it is not my idea of fun game.

 

[bjbrains]

My point here is that it is obvious that this game favors mindless warmongering from what I see so far. Let's say you are playing small continent map 2 civs on your continent 2 on the other (on the side note it looks to me that by mid game almost ALL OF THE MAP is explored, based on some screen shots, which sucks by the way), and you do a rush take a capitol of your first opponent, and corner him down. Now on the other continent let's say that both civs happen to have coastal capitols (and any unit becomes a boat when it comes to water), once you hit Astronomy or whatever is the equivalent that you can traverse the oceans, bum BUM you go over take 2 more cities and you claim that you dominated the world with only ever taking 3 cities, that my friends IMHO sucks and it is not my idea of fun game.

What? So you're saying that you'll always be able to conquer everyone else early? That doesn't fit with anything that we know so far... And if you're able to always win like that, then up the difficulty. We have no idea about what the actual dominant strategies will be. The game is still being developed, and none of the previews say what you suggest (not that I'd trust them anyway).

Also, we've seen bigger maps. They're big.

 

[ahmedhadzi]

I'm not saying that but it won't be as hard as before if a lot of capitols happen to be coastal, which is not impossible to happen, you would agree.

 

[PinkHammurabi]

Keep in mind Civs can still rebuild their palace in another city.

 

[Sonereal]

I'm not saying that but it won't be as hard as before if a lot of capitols happen to be coastal, which is not impossible to happen, you would agree.

It would be harder if capitols are coastal. If you're going to land troops, you have to watch for enemy ships. Then you're going to have to bombard the city defenses and the directions from which one can attack that city would be limited.

Taking cities, even by amphibious landings, would take more than just two turns.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Keep in mind Civs can still rebuild their palace in another city.

No, they can't can't. At least when their capital is conquered. Azazell confirmed that, if I remember correctly.

 

[PinkHammurabi]

No, they can't can't. At least when their capital is conquered. Azazell confirmed that, if I remember correctly.

Oh? Definitely had not heard that. So then I'd assume you can never build a Palace and only start with one this time around?

 

[stealth_nsk]

Oh? Definitely had not heard that. So then I'd assume you can never build a Palace and only start with one this time around?

Yes, most likely.

 

[bjbrains]

I'm not saying that but it won't be as hard as before if a lot of capitols happen to be coastal, which is not impossible to happen, you would agree.

No. I wouldn't. You can't get an easy conquest victory by trying to rush-take the remaining capitals as long as there are at least 3 opponents. Since you can't 'drop' massive armies easily any more, you're going to need naval dominance, and a large enough land force to not only take the capital, but hold it from the inevitable counterattacks. Good luck trying to do that without taking the time and effort to actually conquer said nations.

 

[VainApocalypse]

I used to think that too. Actually once you take a civ's capitol they still exist and are still viable for winning. They only thing is that now they have to capture back their old capitol and every other capitol. The civ isnt under your control, and it still exists. Nothing changes except they get a new capitol.

They wouldn't have to win it back. They simply gain a new capital.

 

[Stalker0]

I want to see an AI gold rush his palace into another civ just as I am about to take his capitol. Then I can declare permanent vendetta against that civ for all time!

 

[VainApocalypse]

No, they can't can't. At least when their capital is conquered. Azazell confirmed that, if I remember correctly.

There's at least one screenshot showing Germany having conquered Paris and the French capital being moved to another nearby city.