COR1: The un-Militaristic Celts.

[Kaiser_Berger]

If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with the latter. I haven't used OCP in ages. The only time I would use it was if we were on a huge map. But, seeing as we're not, and we'll need more cities to bump up our cultural rating, I say go with a tighter placement.

 

[Corrado]

Of course, the other problem with close city placement, at least initially, is that Entremont is surrounded by mountains. Its potential population is going to be low anyway, and will only get lower once other cities poach off of it.

 

[a space oddity]

I'd like a bit closer than OCP, but not a lot. We'll prolly will not win this until later in the game so we'll want to have a few metro's at least. Because of the mountains the largest sustainable size of 'mont is limited, but that is actually an argument for a closer build, is there a volunteer who wants to compute the max size?
In the last map I don't like the light green dot, it's a bit too close IMHO. I'd move it NW to the inside bend of the river.

 

[Greebley]

My preferred city distance is 3. That way a unit can get from one city to another in a single turn. This has saved me city loss on several occasions. Given that we did go with the variant where we cannot reclaim a city (except via diplomacy), I am thinking this distance would be a good idea in this game.

Note that all distances do not need to be 3, just that for any city, there is 1 or more within distance 3.

I agree on moving the green dot one square NW as well. Note that both the green and yellow dot are within 3 of the capitol (the point above).

 

[AndrewN]

OCP Are they the people who built robocop?

As for city placement, my general rule is 'That looks like a nice place, I'll put a city there'. I try to spread my cities out a bit because I hate it when they reach size 12 and can't grow any more beacuse there are other cities too close.

As space said there are lots of mountains areound which will stop the growth of out cities quickly if they are too close. I have no special attachment to the sites I marked, its just I have never done a dot map before so I thought I would give it a go

I have read a few other SG where people seem to do masive calculations to find the correct place to put all the cities. That seems much too much work for me

As for the settler factory, we will need 7 shields for 2 turns, thats 1 for the city center, 4 for the two mined BG and 2 mined grass, and 8 shields for 2 turns, one extra mined grass. 30 shields. I make that 5 mined grasslands.

 

[Greebley]

Actually we get a bonus when we grow. The new citizen produces for us. Since we are at +5 food, the site will usually be forest and we get a bonus of +2.

That means we really only need the 7 you mention (center, 2 mined bg, 2 mined grass) as we will go 7, 9, 7, 9. The fifth and sixth grassland do not need to be mined.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

I agree with the movement of the green dot. The bend in the river is close, but yet not close enough to smother Entremont by any means.

Getting another worker out soon will be paramount in how soon we can begin pumping out settlers, seeing we have a fair amount of squares to improve before the factory can be brought online.

 

[AndrewN]

Originally posted by Greebley
Actually we get a bonus when we grow. The new citizen produces for us. Since we are at +5 food, the site will usually be forest and we get a bonus of +2.

That means we really only need the 7 you mention (center, 2 mined bg, 2 mined grass) as we will go 7, 9, 7, 9. The fifth and sixth grassland do not need to be mined.

I did think of the forest after I posted, but I wasn't sure of the exact way it works. Better to have too many than not enough

 

[Greebley]

Hmmm... Andvruss is definitely overdue on his "I got it".

I am thinking we should let Kaiser_Berger play if he can grab the game. If Andrvuss then shows up during Kaiser's turn we do a player switch, otherwise a skip? Is this ok? I like to keep the game moving.

 

[andvruss]

Oops sorry, i didn't notice I was up. Will play also today.

 

[Greebley]

Ah Ok. Glad I posted then

I would try to get some more warriors out and exploring if we can.

 

[andvruss]

Ya, sorry I need a skip. I have to do a lab tonight, and I don't want to hold this game up. i will definately be able to in the future.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Ouch, a lab. Thats gotta hurt andvruss. I'll happily pick up the game. I'll try to play and post ASAP.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Here are my turns, my fearless team.



Preturn- All looks well. I’ll send the warrior home for MP duty.

IT- Entremont-granary-settler

Turn 1

I move the warrior towards Entremont. Nothing else.

IT- zzz

Turn 2

The warrior fortifies in Entremont. Settler and growth due in 4 turns.

IT- zzz

Turn 3

Zzz

IT- zzz

Turn 4

Zzz

IT- zzz

Turn 5

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

IT- Entremont-settler-worker

Turn 6

I move worker to start another mine, the roads can wait. We need another mined grassland more, in my opinion. I MM Entremont to produce worker and grow in 2 turns. After that, we may have time for another warrior for exploration, and then we should be ready for settlers.

I move settler N towards the bend in the river.

IT- zzz

Turn 7
Worker starts mine
Settler moves N

IT- Entremont-worker-worker
I decide to go with another worker, because you can never have enough workers at this stage in the game. I MM it again so growth and the settler are due in 2.

Turn 8

Move worker to the other worker
Move settler to the bend

IT- zzz

Turn 9

The worker starts mine, now due in two.
Settler founds Alesia
I set Alesia to temple because its completion will line up perfectly with its growth, and the early culture will be nice.

IT- Entremont-worker-warrior

Turn 10

I move worker to another grassland to start mine

Since we’re one turn off on the date, I decided to take one extra turn to get us on a nice even number. Don’t hurt me

IT- zzz

Turn 11

Workers move, and one starts a new mine.

Afterthoughts

After the warrior is complete, Entremont will be at size 5 but won’t be able to start the settler cycle yet. I’m sure we can find something else to produce until the other grassland is mined.


Here isthe save

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

And a pic of our current situation

 

[Greebley]

I like having the turns even. I was even going to suggest it.

Ya, I like the temple. We get that cow in the radius.

Ok, I got it. Will try to make some towns.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Lux is too high - probably from when we bigger and then built the worker. I lower it..

IBT: Build the warrior

2510 AD: I send the warrior S to explore.

2470 AD: Zzz

2430 AD: Finish a road which helps and I can lower Lux rate.

2390 AD: Zzz

IBT:
Entremont: Settler->Settler

2350 AD: Realize I cannot follow the dot map as there is a hut on the square I want to settle. I will settle direct on the dyes. This has the additional benefit of not requiring us to road jungle. It will change the dot map though.

2270 AD: Settler has arrived but I delay settling a turn so the worker can run if the give us barbs.

IBT:
Alesia: Temple->Warrior

2230 AD: Settle Lugdunum on the Dyes, this will greaty improve the high unhappiness (roads finish too to help).
The Hut gives us Warrior Code

IBT:
Entremont: Settler->Settler

2190 AD: Move settler NE - It will not reach its destination, so the next player gets to decide where we want it.

2150 AD: Zzz.

Notes:
When Alesia's borders expand in two turns, we will definitely want to MM it. It will go from 1 shield to 4 as it can use a cow and a BG.

For anyone not familiar with settler factories, our current one says the settler is in 5 turns at the start. When we grow to size 6, it gets 2 bonus shields and so will say grow and build in 2 as we want. Don't forget to adjust it every time it grows - otherwise it will take 3 turns to grow (Lux rate too). You want to move a citizen off the forest to get back to 5 food. We could around 12 cities by 1000BC if we do things right.

No contact with other civs. That will make this variant easier as we seem to have our own piece of land. (Of course we haven't explored much either), so they could certainly be out there.

With sedentary barbs and no contact with other civs, I did not worry much about military. However, our two non-capitol towns are building warriors, I think we should switch to Barracks before long though.

The lands to the S look poor in the short term but will be good in the long term (jungle and marsh mostly).

We really need to send a warrior to explore north and one to explore east.

I included a tenative dot map in my picture. The non-filled bigger circles means I wasn't sure where was best due to lack of knowledge of the area, but that I felt a town belonged there. A few of my filled circles might also change as we drive back the darkness. I thought it would make a good start for discussion, since I couldn't follow the previous one due to the hut blocking it.

The Save

[Edit: Space, it looks like you are up next. ]

 

[barron of ideas]

delurk

Kaiserburger, are you sure you don't want roads on those mined tiles? There are articles in the war accademy that talk about this, how many worker turns you burn to get back to those tiles when you do finally decide you can't live without the extra commerce the roads bring. If you mined it, you planned to put a citizen on it to work, why give up the commerce for the road and the additional mobility.

It's not my game, but it is really a surprise to see an unroaded mined tile.

re-lurk

 

[a space oddity]

Ok, I see it. But I'm getting in feast mode, and I have a busy week ahead in RL as well.

On the dotmap:
Those southern cities are pretty useless on the short term, so I'd say, red first (the settler is next to it already ) and after that, the yellow, to grab the cow. I hope that scouting the SE will reveal more short term usable land. But for now the light green of those that are left has my preference.

 

[Greebley]

It did waste worker turns, but enabled me to get the Settler factory up and running sooner - in fact perfect timing for my first settler. Is building all our towns one turn earlier worth being 4 turns behind on our roads (2 turns for each mine)? Tough call.