COR1: The un-Militaristic Celts.

[Corrado]

Originally posted by Greebley
Cor,
If we follow the strict letter of rules, we will not be able to explore while at war. The problem is that all units must be in our territory. An exploring boat would have to be disbanded. This seems extreme. Maybe we should reword it to "we cannot enter enemy territory and cannot initiate an attack in neutral territory (only defend)? What do you think?

-------------------

Also, I thought I would get clarification on the "must leave if asked". The AI pretty much will always ask you on the first turn to leave. Do we then have to leave next turn? Or do you mean when the AI asks the second time and moves your units automatically, you never declare war?

The first is more strict and limits exploration by boat. This is the way I interpret the rule however. Basically you need an ROP to go anywhere.

The second allows exploration of other civs lands without an ROP and doesn't lead to war as far as I know. If I read your initial statement correctly we cannot do this.

A third option that could be used is simply "Don't purposefully enter another civs lands without an ROP. This would be the more harsh version of the "enter land" rule.

Actually, for both instances:

The exact rule is, "Don't do anything that the computer can immediately repsond to by war." Therefore- if we have units in a computer player's land and he says, "Leave or I'll get upset", it is our choice whether to leave or not. We're pacifists, but we're not necessarily refined and polite. On the other hand, if he says, "Leave or I declare War!", we *must* leave.

I have never had a "Leave or I declare War!" response from a boat in enemy territory; they merely get a bit annoyed with us and life goes on. So this rule would not hamper our boats at all during exploration.

If others wish to move to a more harsh version- not allowing *any* entry without ROP- I am up for that, but the baseline as I set it out is not that strict.

 

[Greebley]

I am happy with the restriction you stated. I just didn't like the "in between" way I read the rule (my option 1). Glad for the clarification.

So we can have units in neutral territory or in other AI lands if we are at war with a civ?

 

[Corrado]

Hm. I think units in neutral or 'other' lands are fine during a war. We just can't enter enemy territory, and must pull back if the 'other' civs give us the 'leave or war!' option.

 

[Greebley]

Ok, thanks for the Clarification.

Andvruss, You do know you are up???

Since we are trying for cultural assimulation without war, I thought I would post some "research" I have done on where you can settle without causing the AI to declare war. I chose a random AI city. The following picture has red boxes for locations that you can't or shouldn't settle in as it will lead to war. The green circles are locations that do not lead to immediate war (I can't totally rule out a subtle long term effect, but it is my personal opinion that no such effect exists).

The easiest way to remember this is that if the AI could move a citizen to the square you placed your city in (i.e. one of the 20 workable tiles), then he will declare war. Note that the "corners" (two squares N, S, E or W of the city) ARE ok, even though they are only 2 moves away.

Here is the picture:

 

[andvruss]

Got it. Was just waiting for more input.

 

[Greebley]

My advise is to continue to concentrate on producing settlers. Try to keep the settler factory running (ideal is to check on it every turn it grows - it should always have +5 food).

Lugdunum I would continue to make spears or warriors.

Perhaps it might be fun to switch Alesia to a wonder - we could research Lit next (nice for the culture as well) and go for the GLib.

As for where to settle? I think Andrews dot map looks good, though as I mentioned before I would grab the horses and spices way to the south of his dot map first. Another general rule would be to grab lands before the Russians so settle the closer (or better) spots first.

I would also make temples the first build in new towns (only exception would be if we need a defender - you could switch to one if barbs apppeared for example).

Since we cannot grow by fighting we want to get as many spots as we possibly can now. If we don't have sufficient lands to keep up there is little we can do (though we may already be bigger than that already).

So priority 1 - grow until every spot is filled.
Priority 2 - Maximize culture
Priority 3 - Enough military for defense of our cities.
Priority 4 - Start building up infrastructure (when we get the techs).

As for techs, I think the 3 we really want are Literature, Currency, and republic (Being the first to Philosophy would be nice for the free tech). [Edit: I forgot construction for aquaducts]

That may be more long-winded than you wanted. I got carried away

 

[Corrado]

I agree generally with Greebley, though I'd suggest going north first- the Russians are actively expanding, and the Chinese aren't, or at least they aren't expanding in our direction.

Likewise, if you go north fast enough, you might be able to take that northern Dye. Russia doesn't have any dyes hooked up, which means they may not have any dyes at all, which means an early trading opportunity once we get roads together.

Of course, such actions may prompt Russia to attack us- keep an eye on Greebley's grid up there.

 

[Greebley]

The reason I want the spices is that it will save us quite a bit. It would be annoying to have to spend 20 gpt for the entire game if we can grab it now.

I also like horses so we have fast units to more easily to defend towns.

China may be slow in settling, but china will also grab the Lux and resources first. If we don't do it now we may never get it.

Other than that, I think the rest of the settling should be north.

We have one settler heading S. I would go for the spices with that one, since they are most at risk.

For the horses, we could take a gamble that China is not near enough to them to go for them soon. We also do not need them all the time so a single 20 turn deal would suffice to build what we would need for defense.

I just looked at the save. We have a Settler already in the N. I agree that one should go for the dyes in the N and not head S.

How about if the next settler Entremont produces heads S to the horses, and then we fill what we can in the N after that. Looking at the terrain, I think settling directly on top of the horses looks best to me (though not exactly what the dot map indicates).

I put both Southern towns on hills so if china attacks they have the hill defense.

Since pictures are clearer:

 

[AndrewN]

Corrado The north is pretty much filled up. Only the fishing villages can be built now. The Russians have built a own near the spot to the east and the only free place is now in the desert. This is I sent the second settler I built south.

Greebly Culture is defiantely the way to go. I those cheap temples - 10 turns and

Entremont can continue producing settlers for a long time. There is masses of space towards China and I was exploring west and there is more space there. However I have noticed that the AI seems to settle towards opposition, especially the human, first and then backfills so putting a ring down bt the spices and backfilling ourselves is best. As I mentioned in my turn log we have the highest culture and so any settlements behind our lines may well flip to us .

andvruss I forgot to mention. There is a spearman near the settler. I was intending for him to accompany the settler in his journey south.

I left two towns building spears and moving them to undefended towns. I think we are at the stage that every settler sould have a escort as there are a number fo groups of barbarians roaming around in the south.

 

[a space oddity]

Originally posted by AndrewN
[B...However I have noticed that the AI seems to settle towards opposition, especially the human, first and then backfills so putting a ring down bt the spices and backfilling ourselves is best. As I mentioned in my turn log we have the highest culture and so any settlements behind our lines may well flip to us .
...[/B]

How about trying this: try to settle wide to gain as much land as we can, to purposefully goad the AI to settle in between, and then build the Palace near them? I'm not at home at the moment but we might make a dotmap to see how it works out. We should make sure *we* take the luxuries/resource.
I like it Andrew!

 

[andvruss]

This week isn't good for me . I shall DEFINITELY play tomorrow.

 

[andvruss]

IBT: Agedincum temple-spear

1225: Redirect southern settle to the spices. 10 turns to get there. Pop a hut and get 50 gold. Northern Sttler is going one square NE of the dyes because for more growing space, and, if settled on the dyes, we would have had 4 un-used coast tiles. MM Entremont and a worker becomes an entertainer for 1 turn (settler still due in 1 turn).

IBT: Entremont settler-settler
Verulamiun worker-worker
Lisbon completes the Colossus

1200: Send the newly created settler to the hill with the horses
Change Lugdenum from spear to settler (size 4).
Luxes down to 10%

IBT: Russian scout goes on the tile I wanted to go next turn...
Alesia spear-spear
Camulodunum spear-spear
Russians start the Oracle

1175: Units move

IBT: Scout stays in that sopt .
We discover Writing-Philosphy

1150:
Bablyon doesn't have writing, but China and Russia do, so I trade Hammaburi writing for HBR and 20 gold.
Philosophy started at 80%, due in 10 with -5 gpt.

IBT: Lugdunum settler-spear
Richborough worker-curragh

1125: Send the settler to the chokepoint 2 tiles west of Smolensk. Since it isn't within the workable radius of that cities tiles, no diplo hit will occur.

IBT: augustodurnum worker-spear

1100: move around

IBT: Entremont settler-settler
Alesia spear-worker
Hitties complete the Oracle

1075: Found Burdiala 1 tile NE of the dyes.

IBT: Camulodunum spear-spear
Babylonians start Pyramid

1050: pillage a road in open territory. That doesn't count a rep hit, right?

IBT: Alesia worker-spear
Lugdunum spear-worker
Gerogiva worker-worker

1025: Found Cataractonium. It starts temple since the temple will be completed in 15 turns, and it will grow in 20 turns.

IBT: Hammaburi demands to leave. Of course......

1000: Lapurdum founded. We now almost have a chokepoint on what I can currently see on our portion of the contienent.
Pillage another road outside Bablyonian territory .

Pics and save to follow.

 

[andvruss]

Our core:

Northern Front:

Southern front:

 

[andvruss]

Save

 

[Greebley]

Looks like you got us the Horses and Spices! that will really help us.

One note on your log for the first turn. For the 4 turn settler factory it is not the shields that is the issue but often the food. So the settler still comes on the same turn with or without an entertainer, however you no longer grow every 2 turns. A single turn doesn't matter here, but if you ever want to get the most out of your settler farm (i.e. when you try deity), you don't want to lower the food (unless you can get +6 or more food and can go +6/+4).

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

I've got it, I'll play fairly soon, I hope.

EDIT: Sorry that I haven't had the chance to play yet, but I'll get to it tomorrow night for sure, probably just withing my 48 hours

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Preturn- I do some MMing of Entremont to slow the production of the settler to try and get it back on a 4-turn cycle

IT- Lugdunum-worker-granary
Eboracum riots, I fix it.

Turn 1

Move some units and a settler
Ratae Coritanorum founded by the spices.
My MM of Entremont didn’t work, so settler will go next turn, and then I’ll wait till Entremont is of proper size again.

IT- Entremont-settler-temple
Verulamium-worker-granary

Turn 2

Tolosa founded.
Settler heads out to another city site. Nothing else of interest.

IT- Camulodunum-spear-granary
Richborough-curragh-spear

Turn 3

I explore further with our curraghs and warriors
Settler move towards another city spot. Adjust slider to only lose 1 gpt while still getting philo in 1. Nothing much else.

IT- Philosophy discovered, and our free tech is….Literature Research now set to Code of Laws as to get to Republic ASAP. I leave our science rate fairly low as to make a slight profit.

Turn 4

Settler moves and units explore.
I set Alesia to the Great Library. This can be vetoed, of course, but I figured it certainly won’t hurt our culture, and the tech can be quite nice as well.

IT- Nothing much

Turn 5

I move units and perform some standard worker actions. Exciting, I know.

IT- zzz

Turn 6

Nothing different

IT- Entremont-temple-settler

Turn 7

Same as before

IT- Gergovia- worker-granary

Turn 8

Move the settler, explore. Nothing much new.

IT- zzz

Turn 9

Lindum founded
I whip the temple in Eboracum

IT- Entremont riots.
Richborough-spear-worker
Eboracum-temple-worker
Mt. Verulamium is angry! Must have been the slip up w/ Entremont

Turn 10

Iron is now hooked up. If we weren’t playing the variant we are, Russia would sooo be feeling the wrath of the Gallic Swordsman.

Luxury rate is upped, settler should be due in 2.

Whipped the temples in Lapurdum and Burdigala

I deal Philosophy around, netting Map Making and 86g.

Conclusion

We are looking alright. The settler factory is back online, so we should be able to make a decent grab of the available land to the south. Sorry again for taking so long to play team.


SAVE

 

[a space oddity]

That's a great round, esp tech-wise.

 

[Corrado]

Current Roster:

Corrado
AndrewN
andvruss
Kaiser_Berger (just played)
Greebley (Up now!)
a space oddity (on deck)

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it. I may be able to play today, but tomorrow is more likely.