Corporate Maintenance Explained

[eric_]

Regarding China Property Law

"The law does not change the system of land tenure by which the state owns all land. However, in formalizing existing practice, individuals can possess a land-use right, which is defined in Chapter 10 of the law. The law defines this land-use right in terms of the civil law concept of usufruct."

So, I guess technically they are still running State Property, although they're using a bit of an end-around...

 

[mrt144]

the rushbuying the thing under SP with no changes to landscape would of had 3 gorges W turns sooner because the NET effect of SP across his civ outweighs the single benefit under merc with corps.

 

[Big J Money]

Oh yeah, one more thing I forgot to ask...

Why is everyone using max inflation as an example? Obviously maintenance is going to be highest then; even to the point that the corps become merely a wash if you try your damnedest! That simply means corporations have a window of usefulness when it comes to homeland production bonuses before your society becomes 'numb' to them. Sounds like a gameplay mechanic to me; especially when you admit that at the same time, you are acquiring technologies that boost commerce, making the foreign corps better ventures.

It's like a seesaw: It starts with corps being useful in the homeland, but then they get eclipsed by foreign enterprise. You can either choose to play the seesaw economy, or choose one of the other strategies involving a switch of civics.

=$=

 

[mrt144]

Oh yeah, one more thing I forgot to ask...

Why is everyone using max inflation as an example? Obviously maintenance is going to be highest then; even to the point that the corps become merely a wash if you try your damnedest! That simply means corporations have a window of usefulness when it comes to homeland production bonuses before your society becomes 'numb' to them. Sounds like a gameplay mechanic to me; especially when you admit that at the same time, you are acquiring technologies that boost commerce, making the foreign corps better ventures.

It's like a seesaw: It starts with corps being useful in the homeland, but then they get eclipsed by foreign enterprise. You can either choose to play the seesaw economy, or choose one of the other strategies involving a switch of civics.

=$=

at the moment we are using inflation numbers that we have seen, which range from 2.6 multiplier to 3.25

 

[Big J Money]

No, I mean in the complaints they use end-game inflation values like *3. What about the time you get before that heavy inflation hits? There is good accomplished in that period of time. They are ignoring the timing nuance, and simply saying "it's too expensive to ever be useful".

=$=

 

[mrt144]

No, I mean in the complaints they use end-game inflation values like *3. What about the time you get before that heavy inflation hits? There is good accomplished in that period of time. They are ignoring the timing nuance, and simply saying "it's too expensive to ever be useful".

=$=

but the problem Big J Money is that the inflation values we have seen and what is considered end game are different. they vary so widely for so many reasons that one could have a 3.2 multiplier in one game in 1960 which means theres still a helluva lotta turns to go. it's too expensive at the time in the game they arrive and can be expanded and even founded to be useful. and saying that you should have founded them earlier to circumvent inflation is like saying you should have won the game earlier to circumvent the cost of founding corps later

define the late game and lets start thinknig about when the optimal time to get corps is under the current system. (i'd the sooner the better, period.)

 

[erebos]

What we need is - *tada* - a statement from one of the Firaxis guys. Is the whole inflation/corporation working as designed? Is there someone woho could be asked, someone with connections to Firaxis?

Erebos

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Why is huge inflation such a bad thing? I can easily see someone building corps along with founding religions and other methods of winning the finan. game; totally dominating the end game, economically. The new inflation rate means you have to prepare for the future if you are running a high gross budget.

Because it seems odd to balance economic systems based on something as arbitrary as turn number.

 

[Big J Money]

Odd for Vanilla Civ, but it could be a new levelling system designed to give weaker economy civs a chance to catch up a little. Everyone knows that the economic powerhouse generally wins both in military and non-military victories, yet there are supposed to be other ways to acquire resources than commerce.

@mrt144
From what I've read so far, I got the impression it was directly proportional to the turn number. If that is not the case, then we ought to set ourselves to figuring out what it IS proportional to and why. Maybe it's proportional to empire size, or total gross income of a single civ, or maybe even all of them. The implications of this could be huge -- if running a SE means very low inflation, for example.

=$=

 

[mrt144]

Odd for Vanilla Civ, but it could be a new levelling system designed to give weaker economy civs a chance to catch up a little. Everyone knows that the economic powerhouse generally wins both in military and non-military victories, yet there are supposed to be other ways to acquire resources than commerce.

@mrt144
From what I've read so far, I got the impression it was directly proportional to the turn number. If that is not the case, then we ought to set ourselves to figuring out what it IS proportional to and why. Maybe it's proportional to empire size, or total gross income of a single civ, or maybe even all of them. The implications of this could be huge -- if running a SE means very low inflation, for example.

=$=

its a quadratic function and you have NO impact upon it other than moving forward in turns. go search the bug forum for inflation and corporations thread. this will explain how things changed between warlords and current.

 

[eric_]

Maybe it's proportional to empire size, or total gross income of a single civ, or maybe even all of them.

Whoa...that would be pretty amazing if it were built that way...

 

[mrt144]

Whoa...that would be pretty amazing if it were built that way...

it would be cool, but would require a whole new play testing phase which if the current one is any indication, failed to root out some balance issues.

 

[Ralgar]

No, Inflation depends only on number of turns.

 

[Lars_Domus]

but the problem Big J Money is that the inflation values we have seen and what is considered end game are different. they vary so widely for so many reasons that one could have a 3.2 multiplier in one game in 1960 which means theres still a helluva lotta turns to go.

No, the multiplier would always be the same for any given year in every game on the same speed. The inflation rate will reach 266% by 2050 AD. At Standard game speed I belive it will hit 200% (which would mean a *3 multiplier) around 2000 AD.

 

[eric_]

I have to wonder if the developers are laughing hysterically over all the debate this is causing...I'm picturing them all in Monty Burns mode:

::: Excellent :::

 

[mrt144]

given same map/speed settings youre right. given thay we have so many options though that inflation number will change setting to setting.

 

[Lars_Domus]

given same map/speed settings youre right. given thay we have so many options though that inflation number will change setting to setting.

Map settings have nothing to do with it.

 

[mrt144]

Map settings have nothing to do with it.

Not yet at least

 

[Big J Money]

[...] they vary so widely for so many reasons that one could have a 3.2 multiplier in one game in 1960 which means theres still a helluva lotta turns to go.

I'm not saying you did this intentionally, but you had the information from the bug thread, then you still made this statement which threw me completely off track. Now I'm back to asking the same question I asked before, "Why not try to get used to inflation and learn to account for it in your game?" If the only variables are initial game conditions, that's no big deal because they are under the player's absolute control!

Is the Marathon Deity game's inflation balanced correctly? Possibly not, but that does not have to translate to people claiming "corporations are broken" by throwing out 260% inflation rates in 1960 as evidence. My advice is to play the game on Normal Prince (and Large Prince) and see what you come up with.

=$=

 

[mrt144]

just get used to it? id much sooner see firaxis confirm or deny that inflation is to be this way before i develop a system to compensate.

it isnt a matter of inflation existing, itsa matter of scale and implimentation