corporations?

[Stylesrj]

Who cares about health problems. Ok, you lose a citizen. Boohoo.
It's better than having 5 not working because of unrest. Health is only a minor problem and you don't need to radically change the government just to solve health issues

I went through one of my Next War games with sick cities. Sid's Sushi cancelled the health problems out

 

[MarkM]

Great Profits ???
The only corporations I have ever felt the need of are Mining Inc. and Cereal Mills (I know Sushi is reputedly good, but as I usually play on pangaeas I'm lucky to get even one fish and a clam) and I have never been able to get either one to make a profit unless my neighbours have been sufficiently affable as to sign Open Borders and let my carpetbaggers into their lands. And in that case, when my tanks begin the task of conquest any city having a corporation branch has to be razed to avoid economic paralysis.
Even with a bank and courthouse in every branch city and the headquarters city, in which there is also Wall Street, founding a new branch always brings a reduction in my overall gold income. It is of course my option to decide whether the extra hammers or food are worth the expense.

You are probably putting them in very high pop cities, and/or they are converting a ton of resources? Remember the branch alwasy generates a fixed $4 in HQ city (maxed out to 12gpt in your WS city). The cost of a branch in each city htough is not only dependendent on having courthouse (and FYI bank has nothign to do with it!) but also size of that city. Putting it in a small city will generate a profit. Putting it in a pop 25 city will probably cost you gold.

But anyway, except maybe for civ jewelers you should never be expanding a corp domestically for gold purposes, its the other effects that should decide it.

Focusing on the gold from a domestic corps branch is like deciding to build a 1000 hammer wonder for its +2 culture points

 

[AfterShafter]

Who cares about health problems. Ok, you lose a citizen. Boohoo.
It's better than having 5 not working because of unrest. Health is only a minor problem and you don't need to radically change the government just to solve health issues

I went through one of my Next War games with sick cities. Sid's Sushi cancelled the health problems out

Long term gains. If at turn 200 you have a city that's having health problems limiting its growth, Sid's Sushi at turn 600 isn't going to save you those 400 turns of increased city productivity.

Health is a minor problem compared to happiness, true... But happiness tends to be a much easier problem to solve in the early game.

 

[Iranon]

Corporations require managing the resources they take. Sometimes there is a sweet spot - any less and they're not worth the bother, too much more and they're overkill at what they do while straining your economy.
Unless you're playing Zulus or the Holy Roman Empire, in which case you want as many resources as you can grab.

 

[Hammurbabble]

What difference does it make which corporations you found? Unless you do State Property, you're going to have all of them founded by anyone all over your territory anyway, and you need to found a few yourself in order to make money spreading them to other civs so you can pay the cost of the ones in yours.

About the health stuff -- I might be imagining this, but is there some kind of hidden monetary cost of unhealthy cities? My last couple of games, when things go so bad I finally said screw it and switched to Enviro, my cash balance actually got better, not worse. (I was in Free Market beforehand.) How'd that happen? I'm not complaining, of course, it was just kind of weird.

 

[AfterShafter]

About the health stuff -- I might be imagining this, but is there some kind of hidden monetary cost of unhealthy cities? My last couple of games, when things go so bad I finally said screw it and switched to Enviro, my cash balance actually got better, not worse. (I was in Free Market beforehand.) How'd that happen? I'm not complaining, of course, it was just kind of weird.

The windmill/forest preserve bonus from Environmentalism *might* increase your cashflow a fair bit... But it really shouldn't unless you have a ton. Over the long term, it might by allowing you to work more squares with increased city growth - but instantly? That'd odd.

 

[Meester_henk]

I have noticed the same thing. I don't usually build any forest preserves and still I make instantly more money when I switch to environmentalism. So I switch as early as possible.

 

[narmox]

Could be your governor AI reassigning citizens to be specialists now that you have more health therefore more food available.

a LOT of factors come into play when you switch civics, not just the immediate benefits or drawbacks you see on the civics screen.

 

[MarkM]

What difference does it make which corporations you found? Unless you do State Property, you're going to have all of them founded by anyone all over your territory anyway, and you need to found a few yourself in order to make money spreading them to other civs so you can pay the cost of the ones in yours.

If you don't think tit matters which corporations you found ... you need to learn a lot more about corporations! It's not like religions, their effects are VERY distinct.

Let me repeat AGAIN: focusing on the gold aspect of domestic corporation spread is almost as misplaced in focus as focusing on the +2 culture from founding it. For most corporatons the gold is a SIDE EFFECT of a corp, not the MAIN EFFECT.

 

[Stylesrj]

I wouldn't want to spread corps to the AI. I hate them enough, the last thing I want to do is get them more hammers and more culture. Yes, I'll be getting gold from it, but I'm not one of those types who would sell their civ for a few bits of gold

 

[Hammurbabble]

If you don't think tit matters which corporations you found ... you need to learn a lot more about corporations! It's not like religions, their effects are VERY distinct.

Let me repeat what I said, this time with emphasis on the important part so it stands out. What difference does it make which corporations YOU FOUND.

Note that "found" does not mean the same thing as "have in your cities." I realize the effects are very distinct, but if a corporation is in your city, you have the effect of it whether you founded it or not. The only difference actually FOUNDING the corp makes is whether you have a chance to make money off it. Once someone, you or another civ, plants a corp in one of your cities, that city can produce corporate executives and spread it around -- if you want it spread around.

Other than money, the only reason to found a corporation is if it's one you want to have in your cities and for some reason nobody else is founding it.

As is typical of Sid Meyer, this whole thing is rather weird and counterintuitive, because corporations seem to run at a net financial loss unless marketed abroad. With a corp branch in a city, the city gains whatever the corp does and the civilization owning the city loses gold. Meanwhile, the corporation's owner gets a kickback, but the kickback is never as much as the cost to the city. So in your own city you operate at a loss, but the AI pays you for the privilege.

I wouldn't want to spread corps to the AI. I hate them enough, the last thing I want to do is get them more hammers and more culture.

A fair point. But I think the idea here is to only give them things they can't use to win the game. Anyway, it's true you probably need to be careful what you do with corps, especially since once you plant one branch they'll spread it all over their own civ themselves.

 

[Stylesrj]

Unless it's something like Jewellers (haven't tried it yet though) or another crappy corp, why spread the beneficial ones to other civs unless you're planning to take them over in the next few turns, due to playing on Settler?

 

[Enoch Root]

Thanks to Sid's sushi I just won my first domination game on a Terra map. I just colonized the New World with a few cities, spread Sid's Sushi to them and saw how their borders expanded like crazy, quickly covering the entire continent and giving me the extra 20% of landmass I needed to win.

 

[lordqarlyn]

I remember reading a post a while back that they were detrimental due to maintenance, but that they would be fixed by a recent patch. I believe I'm caught up on patches, so my question is, what are the the most beneficial corporations?

My personal favorites are Mining Inc and Sid's Sushi or Cereal Mills.
I like Mining for the extra productivity. Depending on if I have lots of grains or seafood resources, I will chose either Cereal Mills or Sid's Sushi, since neither consume the same resources as Mining Inc, either one can coexist with it.

I'll start other corporations if I have the opportunity, but I'll spread those to foreign cities simply for the money.

 

[MarkM]

Let me repeat what I said, this time with emphasis on the important part so it stands out. What difference does it make which corporations YOU FOUND. Note that "found" does not mean the same thing as "have in your cities." I realize the effects are very distinct, but if a corporation is in your city, you have the effect of it whether you founded it or not. The only difference actually FOUNDING the corp makes is whether you have a chance to make money off it. Once someone, you or another civ, plants a corp in one of your cities, that city can produce corporate executives and spread it around -- if you want it spread around.

Other than money, the only reason to found a corporation is if it's one you want to have in your cities and for some reason nobody else is founding it.

Right, it's just like religions, only moreso. You get two advantages from founding a religion 1) you get access to it immediately, you don't have to wait (perhaps forever) for it to spread to you, 2) You can make money off it (or in the case of corps, make some $ in HQ to offset cost of it -- either way, make money in founding city). Whether you found a corp or not, it's gonna cost hammers and $ to spread it. If you have no/minimal use for what corp spreads, you're not likely to spread it domestically, right? SO why not FOUND the corp you plan to make an effort to SPREAD? IF you never spread it then founding it is a waste of the GP. So it makes all the difference in the world which ones you FOUND. If you never plan to spread one, you shouldn't even FOUND it at all (except in rare cases if you want to deprive the AI of getting it, eg. ethanol)