COTM 09 First Spoiler: Ancient Age

[Wanderer]

Well, that's kinda interesting. For all that I had what I thought was a poor start, it seem I am quite a lot earlier than most to get philosopy:

1625:
Yeeehaaa! Philospoy, and free tech! Take Lit - chance colossus to gret lib (42 turns). Start on MM.

It would also seem I made the wrong decision after getting it, by choosing literacy rather than Republic. I thought you need Code Of Laws and Philo to get Rep - must go and look at the tech tree again....

@Doc Tsiolkovski:

I quess I was quite lucky ... during my game, I got the impression I got philosophy JUST before other races, and that was at 1625!

CiaO

 

[MikeH]

It would also seem I made the wrong decision after getting it, by choosing literacy rather than Republic. I thought you need Code Of Laws and Philo to get Rep - must go and look at the tech tree again....

Yes you do, the 'slingshot' is Writing-COL-Philosophy-Republic, which is normally doable on difficulties up to Monarch. However as Renata said in the pre-game discussion, this map is more difficult than the normal COTM Monarch map, which is probably why some people missed out. Missing out COL is most likely why you got philosophy before most people.

 

[solenoozerec]

As much as I like the map, there seems one factor that is just too random here:
The Philo gambit.

I learned Philo in 1200BC, and was not first. Solenoozeroc learnt it one turn earlier, and got lucky; that sounds reasonable. Since the effect of early Republic is crucial, I' afraid the results in this game will largely not depend on skills, but plain simply luck.

I researched phil in 1275BC. I got free Republic, but I also noticed that America already has Phil. So I concluded that we researched it on the same turn.
So in my game America researched Phil without external help at 1275BC. Therefore, I am not surprised that at 1200BC you were not the first. What surprises me is that other people managed to research pottery first and then get a slingshot. Indeed there is a factor of randomness and I think it is because of goody huts popped by AI.

@Wanderer: Did you research CoL before philosophy? It is not a problem to research phil so earlier. It is a problem to get it after CoL.

 

[Xevious]

I think it highly depends on whether we are seafaring or not. My first curragh sunk, but second one found the land.

I should have said I was using Vikings for those practice starts. My first curragh actually made it accross but by then I already had my granary and first settler. I didn't go straight to sea, I circumnavigated the island first. Perhaps if I had struck out immediately with the curragh I would have been able to trade, but I planned to use curraghs to explore vs warriors. Plus, with only a half price barracks as a prebuild I think trading for pottery was risky.

In my game I learned Philosophy on the same turn with America. America was way ahead of everybody in tech. I think they were very lucky with goody hut popping. And this is why I wrote that not researching pottery and going on maximum directly to slingshot was a good idea. Otherwise I would not get Republic for free.

America is also Industrious, which means they improved their tiles much faster and hence increased their science rate. I traded Writing before I was done with CoL, but I made a point not to give it to America.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

So in my game America researched Phil without external help at 1275BC. Therefore, I am not surprised that at 1200BC you were not the first. What surprises me is that other people managed to research pottery first and then get a slingshot.

That is exactly my point. I wasn't surprised to get no free tech, but I am surprised to see that I'm the only poster so far who wasn't first for Philo, regardless if Pottery or CoL was researched before (and BW for me was only 11 turns, so considerably shorter than Pottery).

 

[Xevious]

I researched phil in 1275BC. I got free Republic, but I also noticed that America already has Phil. So I concluded that we researched it on the same turn.
So in my game America researched Phil without external help at 1275BC. Therefore, I am not surprised that at 1200BC you were not the first. What surprises me is that other people managed to research pottery first and then get a slingshot. Indeed there is a factor of randomness and I think it is because of goody huts popped by AI.

Another factor in the speed could be who you met first. I first met Dutch, then Babylon, Zulu and America within a couple turns of each other and traded around. I didn't give writing to America as they were industrious and I assumed they would have faster research due to more improved tiles. I was still 11 turns from COL at the time I traded away writing, but since America didn't have anything the other civs needed (thanks to me) they couldn't trade for it. If you met them later they probably got writing much earlier in your game than mine.

 

[Xevious]

That is exactly my point. I wasn't surprised to get no free tech, but I am surprised to see that I'm the only poster so far who wasn't first for Philo, regardless if Pottery or CoL was researched before (and BW for me was only 11 turns, so considerably shorter than Pottery).

I settled in 3950BC and learned Pottery in 3300BC. According to your first post above, you settled in 4000BC and learned Bronze Working in 3200BC, 2 turns after me and 3 turns longer than the 13 turns it took me to get Pottery. (4000-3200=800/50=16 turns) Pottery is always the fastest tech you can get assuming you don't know anyone else.

 

[rrau]

open 1.22 forgot to fix barbs (didn't remember until I was reading the spoiler)

4000bc worker sw to hill. Settle in place. Start pottery at max. start warrior

3000bc have explored our starting island-we're alone

2670bc no easy jumping places for our curraghs so they head out into the unknown

ibt: one curragh was lost at sea

2550bc second curragh lost at sea without contacts

1750bc a stack of 4 curraghs sets sail
ibt: one curragh lost at sea

1725ibt: one curragh lost at sea

1700ibt: no curraghs lost at sea

1675ibt: no curraghs lost at sea

1625 find land and contact civ 1 (Babs) and civ 2 (zulu) - no trades, they already know writing.

1525 meet civ 3 (America) trade writing +5g for BW and CB. Meet civ4 (Netherlands)-no trades

1400bc meet civ5 (Celts) Trade alphabet for masonry +14g. Then trade civ5 writing for IW. Trade civ4 IW for Mysticism +7g.

1275 meet civ6 (Hittites) Trade IW for wheel +25g

1150 Trade civ5 MM for Polytheism, HBR +92g; Trade civ1 MM for Math + 67g; Trade civ2 Math for 48g; gift MM to America so Hittites can't sell it (they learned it same turn)

1075bd Trade Babylon polytheism for Col

1050bc sell Celts CoL for 106g, meet civ7(China) and sell them alphabet for 29g (I now have all the known world's money )

1000bc the celts learned Philosophy the turn before I did and took Monarchy as their free tech. I still have 1 turn to go on Philosophy

530bc celts demanded lit from us - no they DoW on us.

370bc Hitties demand lit from us - no, they DoW on us.

290bc we're the first to enter the MA.

We built the SoZ and are working on the Great Library (3 or 4 turns to go). Will beeline to Navigation to conquer the world.

1000bc stats:

5 towns
6 workers (first time my workers have outnumbered my towns this early)
5 warrior
3 curraghs (3 have already sunk)
11 pop
1 turn to go on SoZ
all 7 contacts
Techs: 1 turn to go on philosophy, lack: currency, construction, monarchy, republic, & lit

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

CB is even cheaper, IIRC (too lazy to fire up the editor). Still, since I had the Colossus, I should have the fastest research by natural means, unless someone has considerably more population.
Important: I do not blame anyone here . But I know how to save a few crucial turns as well...

 

[Bezhukov]

Doc,

I too went BW first and then the Republic slingshot. But to increase my chances, I built the Colossus before building any settlers. This significantly hampered my growth (although it had more to do perhaps with bad suicide luck forcing me to self-research pottery very late).

Trondheim, however, is about the best 20K city I've ever had in C3C. The AI in my game were pathetic - I got no techs from the Great Library.

 

[dmanakho]

Wow, this map is certainly different...
I can't say i liked it , but it was certainly different...
No offence Ainwood but for the past several months all your maps were quite predictable and this one made me to scratch my head at first.

I started researching pottery at max, although i should have followed Solonozerec's advices. My first build was curragh and guess what, it crossed ocean and contacted other civilizations before 2000BC IIRC.
I implemented succesfull republic slingshot and revolted in around 900BC.
AIs were lousy and i didn't even try to build Gr.Lib. I built Gr.LightHouse instead and started building SOZ. FP is also about to be completed.
I am planning to use my 1st MGL to rush a palace somewhere on big continent when i land there. It looks like Hittites or China are the best initial targets.
I will enter GA upon completion of SOZ. I don't think i am going to be building berserks... Knights seem to be much better option.
I reached MAs in around 600BCs...

I have had early phony wars when AIs tried to get some money and techs from me...

Right before start of MAs i established embassies, declared wars on one half of AIs and signed MAs with another half. Great World War I begun with only reason to cripple AI economies and research. It is so much fun watching AIs killing each other from my small remote island.
I am going for Domination.
My primary goal of MAs is to research Navigation ASAP and everything else is a simple wartime logistic.

 

[ainwood]

That is exactly my point. I wasn't surprised to get no free tech, but I am surprised to see that I'm the only poster so far who wasn't first for Philo, regardless if Pottery or CoL was researched before (and BW for me was only 11 turns, so considerably shorter than Pottery).

I got the slingshot, but the key part of my strategy was refusing to trade anything until I had it.

 

[dmanakho]

I got the slingshot, but the key part of my strategy was refusing to trade anything until I had it.

Yep, that is also exactly what i did in my game. I avoided most of the trades until i had slingshot completed. The very same turn I got Philo and free Republic i managed to trade all AA techs AIs had plus all their money.

 

[Abegweit]

Me too, but Doc went much more to the extreme than we did. He avoided all contact for a long time - and still missed the slingshot. It was genuinely bad luck.

 

[solenoozerec]

I didn't go straight to sea, I circumnavigated the island first. Perhaps if I had struck out immediately with the curragh I would have been able to trade, but I planned to use curraghs to explore vs warriors. Plus, with only a half price barracks as a prebuild I think trading for pottery was risky.

I didn’t go straight to the sea either (am I crazy?). But I first was building curraghs then a settler (may be a warrior or worker, I do not remember precisely) and only then I started barracks as pre-builds for granaries in both my cities. This time was enough to fully explore our homeland (both islands, I thought that southern island is a part of a big mass) and to meet with almost everybody. I got pottery in 2110BC from Celts.

On a phil gambit: I did not trade writing to anyone (I did trade alphabet to someone, though, Chinese?). Americans did all their research by themselves and they were leading in techs way above others including me. They researched writing before I finished CoL in 1790BC and this was very alarming. When I met them in 2550BC, they knew everything what I knew plus four techs that I did not know.

 

[solenoozerec]

Wow, this map is certainly different...
I can't say i liked it , but it was certainly different...
No offence Ainwood but for the past several months all your maps were quite predictable and this one made me to scratch my head at first.

I agree. I really enjoyed Ainwood’s maps, despite they were different, they all shared some internal logic, hence they were somewhat predictable. The current map is different indeed.
Why AlanH never designed a map?
I thought if there are several people in XOTM stuff, then they could change each other and play with us, normal human beings.

 

[Redbad]

open

As stated in the pre-game thread I'm going for a 20K, with no compromising.
The plan is to build a temple asap and then go for SoZ and G-Lib. So research will be <Ceremonial Burial> <Masonry> <Mathematics> <Wrtiting> <Philosophy>.
All at max ofcourse. Up until 1000 BC I'll give a rather detailed report of events and from 1000BC to MA only the high-lights.

4000 worker W to r/m the bg, Trondheim max on CB (14), start settler
3500 worker to forest for a chop
3400 CB finished, start Masonry max (22) switch settler to temple
3250 worker W to m/r the bg
3150 temple finished, start settler
2850 settler finished and goes 2W, start another
2800 found Bergen that starts curragh
2750 worker NW to r/m the bg
2590 Bergen: curragh finished and heads north, start worker
2550 Masonry finished start Math 90% (27) switch settler to Pyramids
2470 curragh discovers gem-mountains this could be a small island
2390 worker2 finished and helps worker1 Bergen start warrior worker1 to oasis
2350 worker2 to oasis to r/m

upnorth it looks like this is an island

2230 Bergen:warrior finised, start wealth
2150 workers W to hill to r Bergen starts worker curragh discovers small island S
2110 warrior discovers 2 gem-mountains and a lake
1990 Bergen build worker3 start archer, all workers to elephant to r/m

it's definitely a small island with 3 vulcano's on it

1830 workers to hill to m
Trondheim swiches work from bg to elephant to knock off 1 turn research
1725 Bergen: archer finished start warrior
1700 2 workers join Trondheim (now 6) last worker to r grass N of Trondheim
1650 Mathematics finished start 90% writing (15) switch Pyramids to Zeus
1625 Statue of Zeus finished, start Pyramids
1600 worker E to bg to r/m, warrior finished start settler

a barbarian appears S, bring archer to Bergen but rather wait till AC

1525 curragh sunk while trying to find someone , barbarian appears N
1500 first AC appears, attacks south-Barb
1475 AC kills a second barb and sees camp, archer towards north-barb
1450 AC clears barbcamp, archers kills north-barb
1375 AC2 appears
1300 writing finished start max on philosophy (11)
1275 new south-barb appears, is killed by AC
1250 AC3 appears, settler build, start curragh, worker to forest by lake
1225 barbcamp cleared

1200 We Get News: some tribe called the Dutch have build the Colossus
Copenhagen build on the jungle near the lake (so I won't have to chop)
AC kills a barb on a gem-mountain

1175 another barb killed on another gem-mountain
1125 curragh build start another, AC4 arrives
1075 curragh sunk by a barb-galley
1025 Philo finished, get a free Literature , start max on Mysticism (7)
switch Pyramids to G-lib (7)
1000 AC5 arrives, curragh build, start settler

1000BC statistics
3 towns/9 pop, 1 worker, 2 warriors, 1 archer, 5 AC and 1 curragh
improvements: 1 palace, 1 temple, 1 Statue of Zeus
culture in Trondheim 454 +10/turn


850 Mysticism -> Polytheism,
Great Library: 520 + 16
disband 6 AC, 1 warrior and 1 archer to rush library
825 library: 539 +19

The third curragh manages to find the other civs

490 meet Hittites
470 meet Chinese
450 meet Babylon
330 meet Dutch
Hanging Gardens: 1063 +27, revolt
270 The Vikings are a monarchy
170 colosseum
50BC aquaduct

110AD Middle Ages are here 1576 +29

 

[Dynamic]

You all are very fast guys!

I can't post the full letter now (I will try tomorrow) but I can say in this game the luck factor and my own stupidity were break me to the last range.

My first Curragh sunk on the first sea move and after that I decided (by huge mistake) that it's impossible to cross the ocean by Curragh.
My economy was not allowed the other Curragh in the down time and I crossed the ocean only in 875BC with stack of galleys (2 lost 2 alive).

I got Republic slingshot in 1325BC, started with Pottery, but reached MA only in 450BC.

In 1000BC I have 10 cities. Details will be later.

 

[Offa]

Predator

4000bc found on spot after moving worker west.
plan with spreadsheet. Worker to mine then road BG, then move to next BG which is roaded then mined.
Build plan is warrior, curragh, warrior, settler.

Research pottery 100%.

3750bc warrior built. sent south-west.
3500bc curragh built sent north
3400bc pottery due next turn as is second warrior. Stop to recalculate re granary as there don't seem many good spots for further towns. Decide to stick with plan, but I have doubts about it.

3350bc warrior finished. Pottery learned, start on writing at max.
3000bc settler finished. start a granary.
2850 Bergen founded in ne next to the elephant and fish.
2550 My hero curragh survives an epic voyage to hit land far in the west.
2470 meet Hittites. they are up CB and bronze.
2310 meet China. they are up bronze , cb, masonry, wheel but don't have alphabet.
finish granary in capital and start a barracks.
2110 writing. start COL.
1990 granary in second town. archer in capital. Both towns now building settlers.
1910bc switch Bergen to worker instead of settler.
1870 meet celts, sell alphabet to china for 25 g.
1790 settler from capital. meet zulu (an elite archer in celtic territory).trade alphabet for CB.
1750 Copenhagen on west coast, 3 squares from capital.
1725 Bergen makes archer and starts a settler.
1700 Hittites have writing now.
1650 another settler from capital. barb in south.
1625 Message that the zulu have destroyed the celts.
meet America who are well up on tech.
1600 Reykjavik built on jungle 3 squares to N onf capital.
1550 kill camp in south of island. I'm rich now.
1525 meet Babylon. They have lots of tech but not writing. Kill a barb in the north of my island next to Reykjavik.
1475 camp in north has just spawned a horse and my vet archer redlines attacking it.
1425 COL start on philosophy.
1375 Meet dutch warrior. That's everyone!
Finally kill off camp in north, where a settler has been forced to wait around out of fear.
1350 Oslo built on jungle by the ivory.
1325 Stockholm on west coast near the fish. Another camp located in north.
1275 Finally able to start irrigaing grassland near the pool in the north.
1250 Kill northern camp, redlining archer.
sell writing to america for myst and 80g.
sell writing to Zulu for 34 g.
sell myst to Hittites for masonry and 15g.
1225 well myst to dutch for wheel.
Finally realize an oasis can be mined!!
ibt Hitties demand COL. I refuse and he declares.
1200 Philosophy and republic. revolt and get 5 turns anarchy.
trades buy maths from america for philosophy and 120g.
sell maths to babylon for horseback riding and 30g.
sell horseback riding to dutch for bronze and 20g
sell maths to china for iron working and 28.
1175 suddenly loads of AI know COL, which had been my monopoly. Nuts.
1150 Now babylon has mapmaking. I won't give up republic for it.
set research at 100% for literature in 1075 as soon as out of anarchy. Set some towns for courthouse prebuilds for libraries.
1000 3 AI have maps but I still can't afford it. Try to get it by reneg pece with dutch at it just ends with us at war.

6 towns, 4 workers .

post qsc

950bc china: I give philosophy for mapmaking.
750bc learn currency. give it to hittites for peace, poly and 15g
give currency and poly to babylon for construction. They get feudalism for free. I get a makeover, but nothing else.
sell poly to america for 130g.


So overall, I feel I have got off to an OK start, but 6 towns at 1000bc is grim, and 4 workers is truely embarrassing.

I did have a successful philo slingshot, after researching pottery first, and getting philo in 1200bc. One of the AI learned COL the next turn so it may have been close.

My first curragh sailed straight across and met everyone, taking me into uncharted RNG territory . The celts got killed off very early in my game (hopefully this won't happen in sgotm).

Middle ages in 750bc is great, although still 200 years behind. My economy is so weak though I am a bit unsure what to do (should I continue at all).

I have been very unfocused overall. I am a bit fed up of failing to get medals for military games, and am flirting with the idea failing in a new way this month, but frankly it is a tad murky to me how to go about it.

 

[Aeson]

Predator, Barb Fix

A quick disclaimer... I just played this game mainly for educational purposes (my own and the rest of the staff) dealing with exploits that are not yet against the rules. So you probably won't see my game (or any games using this tactic) on the actual results.. but it's interesting so I'm posting a quick rundown of the spoiler.

First off I built 2 Curraghs, then a Settler, then more Curraghs. My first 3 mapped out the starting islands and then set off on the same turn together. I was getting really good rolls, none of them sank for the first few turns. One eventually made a crossing, and then out of my next 3 Curraghs another made a crossing too. That was it for the Curraghs.

I finished Philosophy in 1200BC after CoL, taking Republic, not having stopped for any other techs along the way. I could have cut 10 or so turns off the date by no having used my gold to start wars on the continent, but I think it more than compensated for the slower research rate.

I had been keeping everyone I could at war with each other using MAs. The AIs didn't have many contacts with each other, so the options were limited. After a few failed attempts to get anything out of the wars (other than a slow tech rate), the Dutch parted with a town on the continent in 1250BC. Once I was in Republic I turned off all research and started cash rushing Archers/Spearmen after repositioning the city and building a Barracks.

Back home my cities all were producing Horsemen. The plan was a Palace jump and then teleport as many Horsemen as I could build in the meantime over by gifting a city to one of the AI. I tentatively planned for around the end of the BC's (having absolutely no idea about when would be best to make the jump), but was going to go the turn my cash ran out. I had 11 Horsemen, 218g, +32gpt at 530BC. Over on the continent I had 4 Archers and 2 Spearmen. There had been a few insignificant battles between me and the Hittites. I lost a couple Archers I shouldn't have, as I could've made peace with at any time and nothing was gained in the fighting.