COTM 13: Hunting Tips

[Renata]

The purpose of this thread is to help conquest players with their games.

The rules, as stolen unashamedly from ainwood's original Hunting Tips thread:

Any conquest-class player is free to post their saves in this thread. Ideally, they should have reached the start of the middle ages, but if they feel that they are really struggling, they can post earlier. We will open one of these threads with each spoiler, so please don't post post-ancient-age stuff here. Conquest players are also encouraged to post details of how the game has gone so-far, and what good things they have done, and what has gone not-so-well.

Any player from any class who has POSTED THEIR ANCIENT-AGE spoiler is free to download the saves, analyse them, and post feedback. Feedback must be constructive - please no harsh criticism, just encouragement. Don't just post "Do this" or "you should not have done that" - this is a learning event, and so you must post "WHY".

Any player is welcome to ask for clarifications on points.

No spoiler info should be given - no "Do this (because you'll need it in the middle-ages)" posts - use your judgement.

These rules may evolve over time, so if you have any suggestions to refine them, please post those, too. Please try to make sure that every conquest player who posts a save gets some feedback (even if its a "you're doing fine!"). Please also try to balance things so that the good info and suggestions don't get lost, and that its not information overload.

Thanks, and happy hunting!

Renata

 

[berserks01]

Ok, I'll start

I've got a problem with money Can't seem to keep up with enough money to buy/trade techs. I'm about one age behind everyone in techs. Any good ideas how to improve my income to either buy techs and/or upgrade my troops.

I guess my expansion phase went ok since I have a good size empire by the time I started building an army. Then the Arabs and Aztechs started warring with the Portuguese using my empire as a crossroad. I was terrified to see all those troops within my borders. Then the Arabs and Portuguess signed peace, and the Arabs went to war against the Romans still using my empire as their walkway/battleground!!!

Then during a small peace time, the Aztechs signed a mutual agreement with me. I thought that was a good thing until the Arabs decided it's a good time to go to war with everyone. I had to go to war with them. And I tood advantage of this to grow my empire even more.

But my problem with finance still exists. Take a look at my save and see if you can help me improve my income. I'm hoping to build it my empire some more and become a military power soon, or I don't see any way of winning this game.

Thanks.

Edit: Removed save. Sorry, thought that we should be able to post as long as we're IN the MA

 

[AlanH]

I've had a quick look at your save in CivAssist2. I recommend you try it. Here are a few points I've noted:

1. You are running 40% entertainment tax which is costing you 148 gpt. The citizens in your top cities are having a whale of a time at around 60-70% happiness. You need to work your sliders much more tightly. Cities should generally have equal happy and unhappy faces. Excess happy faces means wasted money. The CivAssist Cities tab shows the unnecessary happiness you are paying for.

2. Your unit support is 100 gpt, and most of your units are out of date - 14 warriors, 11 swords, 17 knights. You also have what I would consider way too many defenders - 15 pikes and 15 musketeers. You should probably disband the warriors and pikes to reduce your unit costs. That will produce shields as well, so you should disband in towns where the shields will be useful, probably helping to build cavalry.

3. You have 19 entertainers. They should either be doing productive work in the fields and mines, or working as taxmen or scientists. With all you're spending on entertainment you certainly don't need any clowns.

Hope this helps

 

[Renata]

I hope it helps, too, but I'm going to have to ask you to take down that save and put up another that does not violate the spoiler rules stated in the first post. If as AlanH says, you have knights and musketeers, then you are obviously well into the middle ages at least, and your save is a spoiler for people who have not yet played much beyond the ancient age.

Renata

 

[AlanH]

Whoops! Well spotted, Renata. Cavalry, too!

 

[berserks01]

I am using CivAssist2. It's helping me a great deal, but I only used it for it's alerts (should probably start using it for all its other attributes as well). Yeah, I do believe that controlling that slider tightly will be my downfall in Deity games since I'm not very good with that

 

[Renata]

You need to be careful not to spoil the game for people who will be reading this thread trying to help you out. The only criterion for them also is being in the middle ages, so ...

If you have a save from around the time you reached the middle ages (a few techs early or late wouldn't matter as long as no extra resources or map information is shown), you could post that. Much of the advice may still apply. And even that which doesn't may still help with your next game.

In any case, there will be a second thread like this up in about another five days, and you can post middle ages saves there, even if you haven't reached the industrial age quite yet. (I didn't open your save, so I'm not sure where you are right now.) For this sort of advice-giving thread, I think it's better for people to post saves that are slightly short of meeting the criteria than to post ones that are slightly too late and risk spoiling other players.

Renata

 

[Stilgar08]

No danger for spoilage here: My save is from 1950bc and we aren't close to MA yet.
I think basically I'm doing fine, but there are a few things bugging me:

1. Should I continue to research or is it a waste of time? I made a mistake researching myst, I guess (hope for comments about this, as well! ) and not going for the republic slingshot right away... Is it still reachable or are chances zero??

2. How is my MMing? What should I do next? Before starting with COTM's I tended to make a road network and automate workers. I got rid of that habit, but sometimes I'm not sure, if I'm doing right...

3. What should I produce in the upcoming turns?

4. I plan to build my next city at the incense-spot ssw of (you'll see in the save). Good idea? Other city-spots preferable? I don't have a harbor city, yet. What about that? Big issue?

So far, so good, I'm still alive and happy about it. Nothing really bad has happened (although I screwed up my deal-opportunities with myst I think (??) ), yet.

It's my first game on Deity (I think I'm 2 levels above my usual level!!) and I feel a bit uneasy about that.

It's as well the first timelog I'm writing so comments about style or information included are welcomed also (I think it's more likely to be too much than to little info included?).

In my timelog I put some lines with a lot of question-marks behind. These are decisions I haven't been sure about at all... Let me know what you think!

So, feedback about former gameplay will be greatly appreciated as well as advice for what to do next or in general! Merci, mes amis!

 

[Stilgar08]

Hi there... I'm a little bit disappointed about the lack of response

What's the problem?? Let me know...
Just no time to help me out (at least 12 people looked at my timelog, thozugh?!?) or am I not far enough gone in the game? I would have appreciated a little suggestion about my science at least. Or, if even THAT would have been too much, a short note to go on and try again later...

I'll continue to play now and WILL try again later, when I finished the AA (assumed I will...)

S.

 

[Shillen]

Your post got marked read for me without seeing it somehow. I can take a look at your save when I get home from work and make some comments if you want. I'm no expert but I can normally win on deity.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Hi there... I'm a little bit disappointed about the lack of response

Don't worry. The problem is that we are required to have posted our AA spoiler before being allowed to comment in depth; and I for example cannot post that spoiler before finishing (I lost my notes, so I need to see the replay first).

 

[Ronald]

Hi there... I'm a little bit disappointed about the lack of response
S.

I had a very quick look at your game. Some comments:

You need more worker asap as possible to make use of the land. I would skip at leat one of the granaries and probably the spearman as well.

Research: most promising is probably polytheism since the AI usually does not go that route. It is very unlikely that you will get philosopy first.

There are no barbs in the game, AI have respect for size, not only for military. So expand, expand, expand,

Hope it helped a bit.

Ronald

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

AI have respect for size, not only for military. So expand, expand, expand,

Uh - that is the opposite of my experience. Not on the higher levels. The worst that you could do is growing bigger than they are, and be a lot weaker in terms of military. IMHO the AI considers the ratio of units/cities, as long as your overall strength is less than theirs.

 

[Zelda's Man]

Ok, I'll start

I've got a problem with money Can't seem to keep up with enough money to buy/trade techs. I'm about one age behind everyone in techs. Any good ideas how to improve my income to either buy techs and/or upgrade my troops.

Then during a small peace time, the Aztechs signed a mutual agreement with me. I thought that was a good thing until the Arabs decided it's a good time to go to war with everyone. I had to go to war with them. And I tood advantage of this to grow my empire even more.

But my problem with finance still exists. Take a look at my save and see if you can help me improve my income. I'm hoping to build it my empire some more and become a military power soon, or I don't see any way of winning this game.

You definitely have to be wary of signing MPP with the AI on deity level. The AI's aggression level is so high that they often get you into a war when you are not ready. It will often cost you your rep, too, by being forced to declare war on an ally.

Sorry I can't help with the money issues b/c I am about an age behind as well.

 

[Zelda's Man]

1. Should I continue to research or is it a waste of time? I made a mistake researching myst, I guess (hope for comments about this, as well! ) and not going for the republic slingshot right away... Is it still reachable or are chances zero??

2. How is my MMing? What should I do next? Before starting with COTM's I tended to make a road network and automate workers. I got rid of that habit, but sometimes I'm not sure, if I'm doing right...

3. What should I produce in the upcoming turns?

4. I plan to build my next city at the incense-spot ssw of (you'll see in the save). Good idea? Other city-spots preferable? I don't have a harbor city, yet. What about that? Big issue?

So far, so good, I'm still alive and happy about it. Nothing really bad has happened (although I screwed up my deal-opportunities with myst I think (??) ), yet.

You have no hope of republic slingshot at this point. You have to go straight for it on this level with any hope of getting it. It would have been better to go for Monarchy after you learned Myst. to try to get a monopoly on that tech. Other possible monopoly techs are currency and lit.

You made a good gamble early in the game by waiting to meet Arabia and Port before trading. This doesn't always pay off, but this time it did. It may have been better to trade Myst while you could, but I can't be sure. The wheel would have been great to trade for so you could find where the horses are and try to secure some.

If you can continue researching at 80-90% I would do that. Only if you have to drop more would it be better to go to min research.

Also, when trying to get as much gold as possible, it is often better to road first and then mine. This is could change depending on the situation though.

I would settle the incense next so you can lower your lux slider and increase research.

I can't look at the save right now, so I can't comment on the worker actions or what was built. I'm no expert, but it sounds like you are holding your own.

Good Luck.

 

[Stilgar08]

Ok, ok, thank you very much for feedback! Patience never has been one of my most outstanding attributes...

I figured, that my chances for slingshot are zero, when Port had writing 2 turns before I did! Science is at zero now and I just submitted my QSC.
Attached you find my timeline and save...

I have a few general questions:

Science is zero. Arabs are monarchy. I'm far behind. Everyone tells me, that's normal.

1. Do AA-techs get cheaper, when rivals reach MA??
2. Should I trade for IW?? I know, it's an important tech, but I think I have time
3. Are there other must have techs, where I could put my money in?
4. I feel unsure about worker-settler-military relation in my game... I understand how important it is to have enough workers and I raised production of them, but what about settlers?
5. What's the critical no. for cities?
6. What should I do with my FP? Build it or leave it? I guess, building it is better, but it takes so much time.
East or West??

That's it for now...
Thanks again for your replies! Makes me feel better about my game!

 

[Megalou]

Hi, Stilgar08,

I had a look at the 1000BC save. It seems to me from that your earlier research/tech trades is the only real downside to the situation.

Q2. No, it would cost 286 gold. A 10 turn research of literature would cost about 90-100 gold and would *almost* certainly give a monopoly and earn you much more than just Iron Working. I expect Arabia is studying the expensive Monarchy tech, since they have fallen behind the Portugese. In a worst case scenario, Portugal learns Literature and trade it to Arabs, but it's not very likely, is it? I agree gold is always useful, but I don't expect you plan an attack with ancient age units. 10 turns to reach literature is not a bad pace, and with any luck you can trade it to Arabia for a tech that Portugal doesn't have, or vice versa.

Q4. Your micromanagement and timing is good, but I think you could make better use of the cow and deer. The cow is mined, not irrigated, and the deer forests are not cut, giving no food bonus at all. An irrigated deer gives +4 food in despotism. That's like having a free granary. You may lose 2 shields per turn, but you earn the 10 shields for cutting and grow faster. I guess those workers south of Paris are on their way to Rouen to speed up the granary. It looks like they will have time to chop one forest and still connect Rouen before it riots. Agreed?

 

[Zelda's Man]

@Stilgar08:

AA techs get cheaper when you know more civs that already know them. In other words, if you know four civs that know IW, it will be cheaper than if you know 3 civs that know IW. So, unless you are actively trying to meet more civs, I would go ahead and purchase IW. Iron and horses are critical resourses to stay competitive if you ask me.

The optimal city number for a deity game is 11 for corruption purposes. Does that mean you only want 11 cities? Heck no!! Build as many cities as you can and take the ones you can't build.

I know this has been mentioned before, but it is better to build warriors for exploration and MPs because they are cheaper and they upgrade to swordsmen. Spearmen cost twice as many shields as a warrior. The AI give more credit to 2.1 Archers than 1.2 Spearmen as far as power goes so it is better to build archers for war (the defensive free shot is nice too).

I have heard arguments for and against building the FP. Some people say build it close and others say further away. Because it doesn't act like a 2nd palace center for corruption like in van civ, you don't have to build it far away. I think it does change the corruption rank or something. I can't say much more about it except to say I usually build it somewhere in the second or third ring of cities.

 

[Stilgar08]

Thanks for Feedback!

I won't be playing over the weekend (Hurricane-Open-Air -Festival ), so keep it coming, if you find the time

@Megalou: Thanks for the Input on the deer and cow. I thought, Mining green and irrigating plains is always good??

@Zelda's Man: I will change most of my production of military units to warriors, now... I will as well follow your "usual gameplay" and build the FP in the 2nd city-ring... (first thing in city near forrests). Thanks!

 

[Zelda's Man]

@Zelda's Man: I will change most of my production of military units to warriors, now... I will as well follow your "usual gameplay" and build the FP in the 2nd city-ring... (first thing in city near forrests). Thanks!

Just remember that you can't chop the forests to speed the production of the FP. If you have to chop them, then build something else there first so the shields aren't wasted.