COTM 14 Pre-game Discussion

[bed_head7]

I didn't think so either, but I just checked and The Great Lighthouse is commercial, expansionistic, and seafaring.

 

[AndrewN]

@A'AbarachAmadan - I think that one wonder is not enough to triger GA, I think you need two, aren't you?

Nope, the Lighthouse is enough. So is the Colossus which makes England a bit of a pain in a 20k game

 

[PaperBeetle]

The Lighthouse is comercial, expansionistic and seafaring, so it should trigger the GA all on its own? Nasty. GAs are best left to the medieval imho.

 

[Gato Loco]

But if we get the Republc slingshot and then build the lighthouse it wouldn't be too bad, would it? Assuming the AI hasn't stolen it by then. What would be really bad would be having to double-ship-chain all your troops and settlers because you don't have the extra move from the lightouse. Remember that England's traits are useless if you don't get off the island.

 

[Cuivienen]

Looks like a fun one! I might actually have time to enter, too. The start is very good for 20k, but the civ, not so much. England is notoriously bad at 20k because both The Colossus and he Greal Lighthouse trigger the English Golden Age.

Settle in place.

Build:

Curragh, Curragh, Warrior, Settler, Granary

Opening moves:

 

[ainwood]

Has there ever been a Gotm with 80%?? Seems like they are always 60%'s.

GOTM 44 is also 80% ocean.

 

[Offa]

How about making predators settle one to the east.

 

[Renata]

GOTM 44 is also 80% ocean.

So was COTM09.

Renata

 

[Più Freddo]

Very nice start, Karasu! You can easily be tricked to improve the wrong tiles, there are so many seemingly, or ususally, good ones to choose from.

Other than Solenoozerec, I will stay away from the Beegees. They have nothing that the Fur tiles don't have, wheras the opposite is not true (commerce, timber). And I think Cuivienen should consider the Despotism malus: roading the north-eastern Fur will give nothing before we have The Republic. There are two other ones to road, and we only need one road in order to connect the luxury as such.

I will move the Worker straight south, this Fur appears to be off the river, then most likely settle in place. The Worker will chop the forest, mine it and then road it just in time for our growth to size 3. (We do have to adjust the luxury level at size 2 before that.) The timber goes towards a Granary, our first build timed for 3250 BC. It then repeats in the Fur forest to the south-west with the timber this time hurrying a Settler arriving moderately early in 2950 BC after a Warrior in 3150 BC. Only then will I irrigate the Cattle. Irrigating it earlier either makes us work the relatively poor Beegees (in terms of shields and commerce) in order to preserve the additional food, or it delays the arrival of timber from the Fur forests without adding extra food (if we work the forests before we improve them). By cutting down two Fur forests ASAP I only have to work a commerceless Beegee for three turns of the first 28.

The Fur forest by the river can be kept unimproved until we are closer to becoming a Republic. Unless we need the timber. And if we are lucky, we might find that one of the Furs, why not this one, is sittting on a Beegee, saving us the six turns of mining. But the three turns for roading are lost for sure.

What about the Cattle, by the way, any chance for a bonus shield like last time? Some more luck, and there's another food bonus within our reach and we have a four-turn Settler factory. I can see more forest, but forest is known to hide Game, for example. And all three unknown tiles are on a river!

Moving south is also fairly revealing, considering alternative locations, so I think this move at least is settled.

 

[Jove]

Arrrr, I think I missed GOTM36, so this will be fine with me. At last I get a chance to play as Elizibethan Jove!

 

[Vegasgustan]

There is a catch to this start. There is always a catch with a start this good. Just like in the current GOTM, the level is Warlord...but then you see the hell that you will have soon. Well, you Diety and Sid players not so much, but us Monarch/Regent and below players...SO MUCH.

I did not finish COTM 13, it just was not fun like Doc said. This one I will no matter what.

 

[eldar]

What's not much fun with these types of starts is sharing a mid-sized island with an agressive neighbour. Say the Mongols, or Rome.

 

[ionimplant]

I will move the Worker straight south, this Fur appears to be off the river, then most likely settle in place. The Worker will chop the forest, mine it and then road it just in time for our growth to size 3. (We do have to adjust the luxury level at size 2 before that.) The timber goes towards a Granary, our first build timed for 3250 BC. It then repeats in the Fur forest to the south-west with the timber this time hurrying a Settler arriving moderately early in 2950 BC after a Warrior in 3150 BC. Only then will I irrigate the Cattle. Irrigating it earlier either makes us work the relatively poor Beegees (in terms of shields and commerce) in order to preserve the additional food, or it delays the arrival of timber from the Fur forests without adding extra food (if we work the forests before we improve them). By cutting down two Fur forests ASAP I only have to work a commerceless Beegee for three turns of the first 28.

excellent analysis!!! i guess i'll again let my intuition take control...

i think we can easily classify players into predator and open just by asking them whether they think that much as Più Freddo did above.

 

[Jason Fliegel]

Well, just for funsies, I started an England/Emperor/80% Archipeligo game. A few thoughts and observations:

1) I started on the same island as the Dutch. Zulu/Babylonians and Persia/Hittites also started on shared islands, while the Greeks and the Vikings each had their own island to start with.

2) All civs were reachable without suicide curraghs. Which meant that the communication monopoly dried up relatively quickly.

3) However, by getting curraghs out ASAP (my build order was warrior(exploring)-warrior(MP)-curragh-curragh-granary), I was able to take advantage of that brief window and make some good tech trades.

4) I won the race to Philosophy and used it to slingshot MapMaking. Then I got bogged down in a war with the Dutch and didn't bother to send out galleys with settlers, but that's a whole 'nother story.

5) I then did minimal research on Republic and parlayed that into trades for all the other Ancient techs. Did I just get lucky that I didn't have a civ that would research Republic on its own?

For the COTM, I think the slingshot to Map Making and then using galleys to send out settlers may be the way to go -- unless we have a map like the one I got, where all the various landmasses are connected by coast or one square of sea, so that by the time I had Map Making, all the nearby stuff was filled. Then, I might stick with the standard Republic slingshot. I also think the key is getting curraghs out early ("Duh," the seasoned players are probably saying, but it's worth mentioning.)

 

[eldar]

I've played 2 extended test starts so far (one where I was happy to go on but the game crashed and I couldn't be bothered to re-load). Both games Republic slingshot was no problem.

I'm just wondering what nasties are lurking beyond the seeming paradise that is our starting location!

 

[Jove]

I like your reasoning, Piu. But what victory condition are you going for? Waiting that long without roading any tiles doesn't do anything to increace Commerce, which means the chance to speed up early science is lost. With the Commercial and Seafaring bonuses already, plus a couple roaded tiles, I bet we can get to the Repbublic faster than a cat can get out of a bag. So we get the jump on those juicy 3-shield tiles, the increased food, etc., not to mention getting to work on the Lighthouse without sacrificing peace of mind. Is the production worth putting off the Republic? Because let's face it, at 60 shields we'll have to wait for the granary anyway, why not put off the chop? Or are my wires crossing?

 

[Own]

I'll be going for conquest, domination, or 100k.

 

[WetSawdustDemon]

I’m thinking about another 20k attempt as well, the thing is I really don’t like doing that in the capital. With that in mind I did happen to notice that if you did the following:

4000BC – Settle in place, start building a settler, have the citizen work the cow tile and move the worker east.

3950BC – Worker irrigates the cow

3750BC – Worker finishes irrigating and moves North to scout out a good 20K spot

3700BC – London grows to size two, have the new citizen work one of the bonus grassland tiles

3650BC – Set slider to 0.9.1

3450BC – London grows to size three and builds a settler

That gets you a settler on turn 12 and hopefully the worker has found somewhere nice to build the 20K city. Can someone who knows better tell me if this is in fact a really stupid idea? Also will those raging barbarians have eaten my foolish settler and worker by 3400BC?

Wet

 

[Own]

Raging barbarians? So annoying.

 

[solenoozerec]

I think Più Freddo plan about chopping the south forest is nice and better then mine. Unlike bgs, furs will give commerce as soon as forest is clean and before that we will be working on the moo anyway. Also his plan gives connection to lux and a granary two turns earlier than mine.
However, I will not chop the second forest and my first build after a granary will be another worker.