COTM 17 Second Spoiler - Middle Ages, World Map

[Karasu]

Welcome to the second spoiler for CotM 17.

Quite unsurprisingly, this thread is to discuss your progress in the Middle Ages. You need to:
- Have reached the end of the Middle Ages (that is, be able to research an IA tech), and
- Possess a reasonably full knowledge of the entire world map

Was this era the end of your game? Did you manage to invade the second continent after conquering yours? Or did you engage in trades with several civs? And how were the AI on the other continent faring when you met them?

 

[Redbad]

open, going for 100K

Middle Ages: 280AD – 1480AD

We entered the MA in 280AD being at war with Greece. Persia is already destroyed and Rome has only one city left.

Sparta built the GLib in 350. It’s of no use for Alex as he has more techs then the people he knows (Shaka and me). But for me it’s very valuable. I know also the Inca, Maya and Sumeria and so the GLib will deliver me knowledge of cathedrals and universities for free. I immediately quit all research. The Republic which I have researched in 280 is the last tech I will have researched myself.

In 380 the peace treaty with Rome expires, we dow and the next turn Rome is gone.

In 470 we capture Sparta and we get Monotheism, Feudalism and Chivalry from the GLib. From now on I can’t build any Gallic warriors anymore and so I switch to knights. There are some 4 or 5 flips of conquered Greek cities. However it doesn’t hurt as I have all the wounded units heal outside the cities and I leave some Gallics posted to retake them. War weariness is becoming quite a nuisance. To counter that and being able to cash-rush settlers we switch to Monarchy. In 520 we take Herakleia and the Greek are dead. They have taken Theology to the grave as they didn’t want to throw it in a peace deal.

That leaves only Shaka. War in 560 and we have 60 GW left. However Shaka has quite a lot of impi’s and I suffer more losses against them as I thought I would. So I have to make a few short peace deals and have to bring in knights. Fortunately I’m quite lucky with leaders. On the Persian, Roman and Greek island I have one army each, but against the Zulu I get 4 MGL’s. 3 form an army on Zulu soil and one is brought to the Celtish island first and then forms an army. As I have only galleys I can’t transport armies later on. With the help of the armies and the knights we can get rid of the Zulu in 920. Peace at last.

We have rushed quite a few settlers and founded quite some cities. The remaining settlers are send to the Zulu island and we revolt to feudalism. From now on nothing exciting happens. We get a few techs from the GLib until it becomes obsolete. We built cities, 142 (it could have been some more, but I thought it was enough). And of course, we rushed culture.
1000 16.000 683 cpt
1100 24.000 880 cpt
1200 34.000 1028 cpt
1300 51.000 1255 cpt
1400 78.000 1380 cpt
1480 100.000 1441 cpt

 

[Salte]

open, domination

I entered the middle ages as late as 100AD (turned off research after building GLib). At this point i had conquered 6 persian cities and had my forces next to their capital.

I got Monotheism as a free tech.

260AD: Capture last persian city, still no GL, send my GS back to my own island and then prepare for zulu invasion. I also stop building GS and start producing Horsemen. The greeks know Feudalism, so I'll expect to have it soon (due to GLib) and will then resaerch Chivalry.

300AD: Suicied galley meets inca, they are a little ahead of the rest of us in resarch. Soon meet maya and sumeria as well. Sumeria is backwards. The Incas seem to be on the winning side of a war with the mayans. Next turn i get Feudalism, Chivalry and Monarch from GLib.

330AD: Upgrade a few horsemen to knights and declare on zulu.

350AD: Greeks refuse to remove some troops they landed on my Island and declare war. Get first military leader (to rush FP in persepolis)

460AD: Capture Zimbabwe

510AD get gunpowder from GLib, start researching Chemistry to get Cavalry for invasion of greece

around 600AD: capture last city on zulu continent

760AD start invasion of greek continent after having researched MT and upgraded a few knights to cavalry

820AD capture second greek city, war weariness is a major problem
830AD make peace with greeks for some gold

1030AD ROP Rape Greeks, capture Athens and Pharsalos

1100AD Research Magnetism and enter IA

The greek still have a few cities left. The war is progressing slower than i had hoped, there are a lot of hoplites to figt. Luckily they dont have any gunpowder. Athens had JS Bachs but still hasn't flipped.

 

[ts64]

ts64 COTM17 open C3C1.22 NoAIpatrol=0

goal: military victory

I enter middle ages 430BC. I have started to build warriors for upgrade to GS when I connect iron. I hope to take care of my neighbors using gallics and
slowly research to Navigation so I can reach the other continent. By this time I hopefully have enough gallics to take care of them too. My plan is to not research feudalism so I can continue to build gallics.

250BC I declare war on Zulu and land some gallics on the hill outside the Zulu horse town Swazi. I raze Swazi and settle a beach head on the hill. The
Zulu's are gone 170AD.

90BC a suicide galley have survived and I meet Maya, 70BC Inca, 250AD Sumeria.

I will take on the Persians next so 260AD I declare on them and land some gallics and a settler outside Bactra. The persian war goes slowly due to fierce counter attacks and they have pikes as defenders. So I need a big stack of gallics for each city. I finally succeed and they are gone 550AD.

By this time I have researched slowly towards Navigation. Sometimes using only scientists.

50BC Monotheism
250AD Theology
290AD Education
360AD Astronomy
480AD Navigation
550AD Engineering

On the other continent Inca are the big dog, followed by Maya. Sumeria is very backwards so I will send over some troops to start war on them. At home Rome will be next. There is a single tile on the roman island that is mine. I bring over a settler and a lot of gallics. I settle and declare war 590AD. This year I also declare on Sumeria and land some gallics and an Army filled with 2 gallics in Sumeria.

The roman counter attack is fierce and I lose a lot of gallics fending of their legionnaries and MDI, I even lose an army on defense. To lessen the pressure I build an explorer to pillage one of their iron and land same gallics to pillage the other. This operation succeeds and now I can go to attack. The roman empire fall 780AD.

The Greek's, I don't like fighting hoplite's so I will leave them in peace for now and concentrate on the other continent.

The sumerian war goes slowly at first since I didn't bring many troops over for the first strike. 640AD I capture Bad-tibira, they dont have any fast troops so I leave it empty, 720AD I capture Ur. 730AD Inca lands a pikeman outside undefended Bad-tibira, wonder what he is up to. This smells like a sneak-attack so I sign alliance with them against Sumeria for 81gpt getting all their 1000 gold. The same year Bad-tibira flips, I take it back immediately. Since I now have troops in Bad-tibira the Incan pike start to move towards undefended Ur. 760AD Inca declares war and move in to undefended Ur, cancel my gpt payment and give some war-happiness. I take back Ur immediately. Inca is already at war with Maya so I dont expect any troops from them to reach me. Now when I have finished the roman war I set-up a ship-chain from the former roman island to sumerian land. With fresh gallics arriving the war speeds up and 870AD Sumeria is gone.

Now when I have a direct front with Inca I start to feel their power. They are sending lots of knights against my gallics and the gallics doesn't feel so
strong anymore. I have an alliance with Maya against the Inca that I signed when they made peace a while back. So I don't want to sign peace with Inca. I decide to slowly advance and since I want more offensive power I start up research towards MT. I have a lot of scientists available so I can research Feudalism in four with only scientists. Since the greeks are quite advanced and already know the techs I am researching I come up with an idea to speed up the science rate without having to pay their monopoly prices. I put all available beakers in during the first turn/turns, this means that I have already gathered the requiered beakers and can buy the remaining turn/turns from greece for a couple of gold. So below are my way to MT, with greeks having monopoly on all of the techs.

940AD Feudalisn
950AD Invention
980AD Gunpowder
1000AD Chemistry
1030AD Metallurgy
1050AD Military Tradition

During this period I have built horses that I have shipped over and they are waiting in a barracks town, near the front, to be upgraded. I now start my
offensive again and with this extra power I cut through the Inca knights quickly and reach domination 1220AD.

After I finished I went back to my 900AD save and tried a different approach. I advanced with my gallics and took a few Inca towns, then after my deal with Maya expiered I made peace with Inca and set-up a ROP-rape of the Maya. With this approach I reached domination 1090AD without researching feudalism.

 

[Markus5]

COTM 17 Conquest. Goal: one island, one spaceship.

I flipped a coin and started COTM 17 Open. It went smoothly until a horrible turn of random numbers. Barbs killed three worker in one turn. Well, that's a pity, but recoverable. Next turn they looted three defended towns. Grrr. Time to hunt some barbs. A small stack went after one barb camp. Lost all of the stack. Next turn or two, three more towns looted. Quit. I hate this game.

So, I restarted the Conquest version. Can't submit, but its still fun.

I stopped expansion at the shores of my island. Booted off the settlers that landed. Got the Republic slingshot. Tried many many suicide galleys to contect the other continent. Didn't see them until late in the age. Missed the Great Library by a few turns. That was just sheer incompentence. I could have had it easily. The only wonder so far is Smiths. No saltpeter. Figures.

The interesting story is in the Industrial Age, but I can't say anything about that. Yet.

 

[7Losses]

I want to hear from the pityfull GOTM-AI to see how he/she/it is getting on!

 

[GOTM-AI]

Human 7losses: we ackonwledge your request for guidance and enlightening
Our Ancient Age spoiler will be posted in a few days.

Suffice it for you to know that we have now reached halfway through the Middle Ages, and we are leading all civilizations in score, culture and power.

We have successfully triggered our Golden Age at the most appropriate time and we are now letting our homeland flourish under our illuminated lead.

We have plans to expand our territory, but our bold invasion of Rome with one horseman and one Archer were met by a partial insuccess. Things will be corrected, of course.

 

[ionimplant]

open 20K

entering the middle age at war with Persia. they were the tech leader (though only by 1 tradable tech most of the time) and seemed to have the biggest territory. allied everyone against Persia to slow down the tech pace.
making steady pace with the 20K city. but thing changed when i made a mistake and built the forbidden city in the 20k city. due to that, i missed the Sistine Chapel by 4 turns (it's built on the other far far away continent)... and after that things got worse... basically my 20k city couldn't build fast enough and there're so many wonders to build. losing Corpernicus observatory and Bach's cathedral... did get Shakespear's theater and Newton's Univ. though. but i knwo this game will be ugly for me and pre-1800 20k win will be almost impossible now...
by the end of the MA, the 5 continents in our landmass were all under our partial control (or would be very soon).... no need to worry about AI winning the game before i did... it seems again i sacrificed too much of my 20k city development for the entire nation...

 

[Tone]

open-space/diplo target which narrowed to Space towards the end of the MA. barbs fixed.

I didn't keep notes beyond the QSC period so apologies for a lack of detail. I have a full set of autosaves from CAII but trawling through them was too long a job I'm afraid. As posted in the first spoiler, I entered the MA in 610BC and gifted both Greece and Persia into the MA and thus picked up Engineering in trade.

As I was going for quick research, I headed for Edu although I switched of research for a few turns to upgrade my small band of warriors. Well timed as it happens as Persia decided to attack me in 370BC in spite of gifts and trades. Greece followed suit a few turns later so I was at war with the two civs that I had gifted.

I decided to prioritise research, pursue the war with Persia as a lessor target and seek peace with Greece so as to concentrate my meagre forces asap. I therefore left the Greeks alone, built markets, libs and unis ahead of troops and so only had a small number of troops fight the Persians. It took me until 470AD to knock them out -Persepolis had some valiant defenders -and not long after in 610AD I entered the IA having taken two towns from the Zulu.

As I entered the IA, I was 5 techs ahead of my nearest rivals (Rome and Zulu were really backwards). I was #1 in land mass but still I lacked the territory that I had hoped for. Overall I was in a commanding position, so how did I manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory? The short answer is that I have got too big headed for my own good and I showed an unhealthy level of contempt for the AI. A few more details will be given in the next spoiler.

 

[Arthog]

open-diplo

Entering the MA with the Persian and Greek, i set immediately research towards Education. I was counting on some help in the tech pace from Xerxes and Alexander, but only the latter was somewhat useful.

Indeed, MA will be a time for AI wars...Xerxes declares on Alexander, and is joined by the Zulu. Alexander recruits the Roman, and both sides ask me to get in. No way, i stand just in the middle, i can guess where the fight will take place if i join...and i want everyone happy.
As a result of those wars, tech pace of Xerxes slows down...and in addition, he goes straight for Democracy (while he had already to switch from Republic to Monarchy...).

About at the same time, i meet the 3 other civs, but they are far behind in tech. Well, at least i make some money with them...
Once reached Education, I go for Unis everywhere, and continue on the middle part of the tech tree, as Alexander seems to be researching the lower.
Still too slowly though, as i'll have to self-research everything from chemistry.

And Xerxes continue to choose wrong governments after wrong governments...he switches from Monarchy to Diplomacy, after making peace with Alexander, but just getting out of anarchy, he declares again...and has to switch back 4 turns later. He will continue like that until the end, spending probably more time in Anarchy than in Democracy...

After the discovery of Astronomy, seeing that too many AI ships are in my territory, i build an army of privatee. Soon, they rule on our coast, while the AI does not seem to mind (I read in some other post that the AI would attack if it sees a privatee in your harbor? I wasn't really cautious about that, as i never used them before. Has anyone a good experience of how AIs react to those ships?). As a side effect, my ships also helps in keeping every one on its own island...much better for me.

Apart from that, not much action in the MA. I enjoy my tech lead and get some wonders on the way (Copernic, Newton, perhaps some others), and after researching Mettalurgy, enter the IA 3 techs ahead of Alexander (and much more for all the others, except the Persians). I will regret that huge tech lead soon.

 

[ionimplant]

After the discovery of Astronomy, seeing that too many AI ships are in my territory, i build an army of privatee. Soon, they rule on our coast, while the AI does not seem to mind (I read in some other post that the AI would attack if it sees a privatee in your harbor? I wasn't really cautious about that, as i never used them before. Has anyone a good experience of how AIs react to those ships?). As a side effect, my ships also helps in keeping every one on its own island...much better for me.

i don't have any experience using privateer and am yet to build on of them. but i did notice that Greece used them a lot in my game. i could see those privateer returning to Greece harbor for recovering. at first there were plenty of persian and zulu ships out there and those privateer for some reason not clear to me exculsively attacked them and never my ships (zulu wasn't at war with greece while persia was). but finally when only my ships were there, they also came under the mercy of the privateers (which of course trigger my war against greece.)

 

[Arthog]

Interesting, i never saw the AI using privateer. But i guess that, indeed, it is usually pretty easy to see where they come from.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I entered the industrial ages 720AD. I destroyed Rome and Persia and am starting to fight Greece. War is quite strugle this game. I can't seem to get enough units together

My 20k city got all MA wonders except sun-tzu, the workshop and magelan's because my city is not coastal.
I am strong tech leader with some guys paying me good gpt.

 

[Denniz]

Open - Domination

Ancient Age

Middle Ages

I reached MA pretty late (230 AD). The Perians were eliminated in the AA. I was at war with Rome. I finished off the Romans by 350AD. I immediately invaded Zululand. I was forced to make peace in 470 AD due to happiness before I made too much progress. I switched to Monarchy in 520AD and resumed the war in 620AD once I had built up some knights to combat their Musketmen.

During the interrum, a suicide galley found the other contient. Everyone was ahead of me in tech and culture. I decided to go with a pillage and re-settle strategy rather than fight the flips.

Fighting the Zulu took a couple centuries. I moved on to the Greeks in 890AD. I spent the remainder of the MA driving them from their island and making peace in 1260AD. All the AIs were in the IA by then. Most of the Greek war was Cavalry against Riflemen. At the end, the Greeks allied Sumeria against me.

The only good note was I had very good MGL production. I got 1 in the AA and 7 during the MA (I got 3 in 1140AD). All were used to produce Armies which helped protect my invaders and pillage resources. (1 GS, 3 Knight, 4 Cav Armies).

Industrial Age (I went ahead and put this here as nothing much IA related happen before the end.)

I researched Magnatism in 1240AD, but soon turned off research and used only scientists and trades to advance further. While I was staging to invade Sumeria, the Mayan finished them off in 1360AD. They were using Cavalry and Rfilemen. I had been trading horses to the Mayans, so when the deal ran out I didn't renew.

I decided to try Mobilization which I have never used before/ I think the loss of temples was more than countered by the extra Cavalry production.

I continued to move Cavalry, Settlers, and my Cav Armies to the other continent. I signed a Pact with the the Inca a few turns before attacking the Mayans in 1360AD. The first inter-turn was tough. I lost an 3-unit Cav army defending wonder-rich Ur. I think I had one red-lined Cav defender when it was over. The AI rarely will attack an army, but boy is it scary when they do. You can bet I added a fourth Cav to my other armies after that.

They pretty much used up their Cavalry as the next turn I killed all the Cav units I could see. I didn't see many after that. The Inca must have soaked up their share. From there it was capture Sumeria's former cities and gradually move north until I reached the domination limit in 1435 AD.

No so good, but not bad after such a long layoff from XOTMs.

At the end, I was trying everything I could to acquire more land. So I decided to take out the Greek city that Alexander had slipped in on his original island. IBT after the initial attack he made a Pact with the Inca who I still had one with but since I was in Greek territory, the Inca declared on me. Sneaky little...

[B]Year	Diplomacy[/B]	   
350 AD	Made peace with Romans [COLOR="seagreen"][Dead][/COLOR]   
370 AD	Now at war with Zulu	   
480 AD	Made peace with Zulu	   
520 AD	[COLOR="Blue"]Made contact with Sumerians[/COLOR]	   
620 AD	[COLOR="blue"]Made contact with Maya[/COLOR]; Now at war with Zulu
670 AD	[COLOR="blue"]Made contact with Inca[/COLOR] 	   
810 AD	Made peace with Zulu [COLOR="SeaGreen"][Dead][/COLOR]
890 AD	Now at war with Greeks
1110 AD	Now at war with Sumerians [Allied with Greece]	   
1260 AD	Made peace with Greeks [Left with 3 Cities on 2 islands]	 
1325 AD	Made peace with Sumerians [Maya Eliminated them]	   
1360 AD	Now at war with Maya	   
1420 AD	Now at war with Inca, Greeks

[B]Year	Techs[/B]	 
330 AD	Feudalism	   
420 AD	Monotheism	   
440 AD	Engineering (Trade)	   
480 AD	Chivalry (Trade)	   
690 AD	Invention	   
760 AD	Gunpowder	   
850 AD	Chemistry	   
870 AD	Theology (Trade)	   
970 AD	Metallurgy	   
1030 AD	Printing Press; Education; Banking; Astronomy (all Trade)	   
1040 AD	Military Tradition	   
1180 AD	Physics	   
1230 AD	Economics; Theory of Gravity (Trade)	   
1240 AD	Magnetism	   
1285 AD	Steam Power	   
1315 AD	Music Theory (Trade)	   
1335 AD	Nationalism	   
1360 AD	Medicine (Trade)	   
1385 AD	Industrialization

 

[al_thor]

In my game, the Inca just exploded and took sole possesion of his continent. He was absolutely huge. I only warred with him once, when I denied one of his pompous requests. Surprisingly, even though he had the knowledge and where-with-all to do so, he never landed any units on my continent.

Unfortunately, the War Happiness I experienced with his declaration did not stack up to the joys of his Fine Luxuries.

After making peace with him, I thereafter gave in to his occasional petty demands, all the while recieving just tons of GPT, Lux's, one or two Strategic Resources, and lump sum payments from him. He single-handedly funded my Technology Dominance.

I was tempted to try Diplo in this game, but feared Inca's popularity with the other civs (with whom I had warred with (except Rome) one or two times each), so I ended up going Spaceship.

The Resource placement on this map made it truly fun to play. Many thanks to the GOTM Staff.

 

[7Losses]

We have plans to expand our territory, but our bold invasion of Rome with one horseman and one Archer were met by a partial insuccess. Things will be corrected, of course.

Hehe. Sounds like you may need to re-think your attack plans.
Oh and your spelling too.

 

[DBear]

Cities:
310BC Sidon (taken from Persia)
270BC Arbela (tribute from Persia)
270BC Bactra (tribute from Persia)
(razed by Romans in 70AD)
30BC Tolosa
800AD Lindum
1110 Umtata (taken from Zulus)

Techs:
130BC Lit (learn)
340AD Feud (learn)
540 Engineer (learn)
540 Mono, Republic (from Greece for Engineer + 79)
540 Chiv (from Persia for Engineer + 30)
690 Invent (learn)
690 Theo (from Persia for Invent + 45)
810 Guns (learn)
900 Ed (learn)
900 PP (+ 65 from Persia for ed)
990 astro (learn)
1070 bank (learn)
1070 music (+199 from Greece for bank)
1140 nav (learn)
1140 chem (from Sumeria for nav + 238 + 8gpt +WM)
1200 metal (learn)
1250 military (learn)
1275 physics (learn)
1305 grav (learn)
1335 magnets (learn)

Contacts:
1140 Sumeria + Maya + Inca
1180 embassy to Inca.
1230 embassies to Maya + Sumeria.

Wars:
350-230BC Persia
170BC-90AD Rome (destroy Viroconium)
10-350 Greece (lose Lapurdum, later taken by Zulus)
350-550 Zulus I
1100-1180 Zulus II (take Umtata)

Miscellany:
Greece takes Entremont in 210, capital moves to Camulodunum. Entremont builds FP in 500.

Despotic to 340, Feudal to 540, Republic thereafter.

trade nav+econ+chem+45 to Zulus in 1285 for saltpeter.

 

[Genghis069]

Open, Survive. I'm only a monarch/emperor level player and I've yet to win an emperor XOTM. (though I came up just short in the Aztec small map GOTM)

Ancient Age

I choked on the slingshot upon finding Greece in the game. I researched Philosophy and got Mapmaking free. It turned out everyone nearby was within Curragh distance, so the benefit was minimal. Lesson learned. QSC: 4000-ish.

Rome declared war on me early in the AA without having learned Mapmaking. Thereafter, Rome demanded a tech for peace and a second war broke out. I manage to take and keep Hispalis before peace, at which point I make the flip to Republic. MA right around 0 AD, and I have a slight lead in tech and power.

Middle Age

I obviously have plenty of incentive to take out Rome now, and I've built up about 30 Gallics. They are dropped in Hispalis and a third war against Rome begins around 500 AD. A few Knights would join as the Gallics are running rampant in the capital.

Now the fun begins. It turns out I don't have Saltpeter, and neither Greece nor Persia has it. So, stupid ol' me decides to go after Zulu. I take about half the island and get my Saltpeter before my people need a breather, but events outside the war would become more significant. Persia completes no less than Sun Tzu's, Leonardo's and Sistine, and has taken a significant tech lead. BUT, they don't have Saltpeter... so I decide Persia is now more threatening than Zulu. My Knights load up and head for Persia only to find... *drum roll* RIFLEMEN. Crap. I knew I was behind, but now I realize I'm in deep trouble.

Maybe I just need to be quicker, or maybe I should've realized Persia was a bigger threat. Maybe I just need to be luckier. Had I gone after Zulu or Persia instead of Rome, I'm probably not in this situation. Whatever the case, I consistently fall behind during MA, whether I research or purchase techs.

At this point, I didn't have Cavalry, so of course I beeline for Military Tradition, reload, and yep, Persia has Infantry. Furthermore, events on the Western Continent are not optimal; Inca left Maya with only Chichen Itza, and Sumeria is not long for this world.

Might as well finish off Zulu... I attack in 1385 AD, IA entered shortly thereafter.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Genghis, reading that, i think you do not utilize your captured ground properly.

When you capture someones land where it is all corrupt, build as many cities there as you can and irrigite every tile. This will allow you to make many scientists so you can lead in technology.

 

[Genghis069]

Genghis, reading that, i think you do not utilize your captured ground properly.

When you capture someones land where it is all corrupt, build as many cities there as you can and irrigite every tile. This will allow you to make many scientists so you can lead in technology.

Hmm... I suppose they were quite corrupt until the FP went into Rome. There weren't many unused spaces and everything was properly irrigated when I got there. Are you saying to squeeze in the max number of cities possible? I would think that would increase overall corruption to a point where it hurts the rest of the empire, but then again, this may be why I'm still struggling to beat emperor.

Thanks for any and all advice.