COTM106 Mongols - Final Spoiler - Game submitted or abandoned.

[mad-bax]

COTM106 Mongols - Final Spoiler - Game submitted or abandoned

This is the final spoiler for COTM106. In order to qualify for posting in this thread, or for reading further than this post, you must have played the game to a conclusion, and either abandoned the game or submitted the result.

You are free to post maps and discuss any aspect of the game as you played it.

We all love to read about other peoples games, so why not take a few minutes to tell us how you got on?

 

[Ditch]

Amazingly easy Conquest for me! Was it the Regent level and small land area? My first ever Middle Ages win and under 1,000AD (920AD). Just cranked out Keshiks (70 at the end), benefited from Ancient Cavalry, and ploughed up civilizations... Didn't bother with great wonders beyond Mausoleum, Zeus, Leonardo (didn't need it as I never reached Cavalry), and Sun Tzu. Refreshing after the Rome-Deity debacle! And closer than ever (at 9,358) to my first 10K Jason score.

 

[templar_x]

hurrying through the game, i indeed found some time to squeeze that one in before my job won´t allow that again... and finished the game fast. not to animate the fights actually really helps saving time!



here are my notes:

COTM106

Opening moves:
Scout-E sees wheat, worker-N acknowledges oasis, settler-NE and founds there 3950bc. Scout opens hut 4NE of starting position for maps. 
3850bc 2nd hut gives CB and finds eles.
3700bc meet Maya, CB+WC for MAS+10g
3550bc Karakorum grows to 3 with a worker
3300bc maps from 3rd hut 
3200bc 25g from 4th hut
3150bc meet Iros. MAS+CB for ALPHA+BW+10g
ALPHA for Mayan MYST
3100bc settler
2950bc found Ta-Tu 1E2SE (i see the other wheat in the opposite direction only this turn &#61516
2900bc hut gives 25g
2750bc settler
2630bc see first barb with no military
Found Kazan 2W2NW
Met Inca somehow, trade CB for 10g
2430bc scout finds western end of pangaea :/
Settler from capital, ivory connected
3250bc trade Alpha for TW, but the closest horse ressource was already taken by the Iros
2310bc meet Arabia
2270bc found Almarikh 3SW, meet Persia, trade CB for 10g, Writing in, CoL next
2030bc vet warrior from capital, first in an 8t warrior/settler combo factory without a gran
1990bc hut gives 25g
1830bc trade Alpha+Pot for IW, closest iron i can see is faaar away
1790bc settler
1750bc Philo in 6, Maya quite predictably declare war, 1st elite
1725bc 1st e fight without MGL
Meet Baby, trade Alpha for 20g
1675bc found Tabriz 1N4NW
1650bc slingshot complete, Rep in, only 2 turns of anarchy! :yippie:
1600bc first turn in Rep
1575bc hut gives Lit :haha:
Trade for HB and switch research off
1550bc destroy Mayan horse town
1375bc take Chichen Itza  losing two elite bows 
Make peace for their 2nd last town. It is a very rare situation, where the AI even gives away a ressource town! (with horses in the east, have hardly ever seen this before)
1275bc found horse town+immediately connect horses. Meet last civ, Japan, trade Pot for 12g.
1225bc Arabs leave or declare – declare
1100bc trick Iros to declare… take 1st town, try to get them out of the game before they get their hands on HR
1000bc take Salamanca, no more horses or Iros
My eastern highway already goes past the Mayan empire, narrowing Inca
975bc get all Iro towns but 1 in a peace deal
825bc Mayans gone after short 2nd (honorable) war
610bc Incas and Iros destroyed (maybe one already the turn before)
510bc naval invasion in southern Arabia 
490bc finally 5th lux connected, back to 0% lux tax. MM practically in its end state.
450bc Japan gone
350bc 6th lux connected, totally overlooked that i could have done that way earlier
With my 17th e victory i get my first MGL not that it would matter at all any more 
310bc or the turn before: 7th lux connected
290bc Persia gone
2nd MGL with 18th e victory now they are coming.
210bc Arabs gone
190bc last attack… 3rd MGL with 19th e victory
150bc conquest. Damn. An unfortunate army loss cost me 2 turns… 
Otherwise a fun game, thanks.

E victories IIIII IIIII IIIII IIII

t_x

 

[templar_x]

one pic of my core when the game ended...
t_x

 

[templar_x]

afterthoughts:
what i think i did well was the direction of the attacks: 1. Mayas to gain the nice settling space plus the horses 2. Iros just before HB so to avoid their GA 3. the eastern campaign, Maya, Inca, Japan. those troops would then continue into the north on the more eastern route into Persia and Babylon 4. Invasion of southern Arabia via ships while i built up the road straight from the core to the north through the jungle to get my troops into southern Babylon.

however, on the negative side, i was again too slow to get my workers out to primarily build roads to my future Targets. in These low-level pangaea games, there is nothing of greater importance than this! still i again "wasted" worker turns in the core to reach those Magic numbers and make that productionwise lame core useful. but that hampered the roadbuilding, and my armies hat to walk into their attacks on unfinished road Networks. i knew it, and i still did it... core optimization addiction is kind of my latest addictions, since i got rid of my wonder addiction years ago

with better roads, i am sure that there will be some finish dates to be seen that are considerably earlier.

Edit:
i believe i never had more leader luck than in this game, and they never had less effect! firstly, i got them way too late to make a difference. secondly, armies would not be of much use here anyways, especially since all i could build were horse armies thirdly, late as they came, they fared so incredibly bad, it is nearly unbelievable. one full health army retreated from the only fight it would have without any effect; the other one died after few unimportant attacks to a reg sword on a hill without even Scratching it! and the third MGL did not even find a town to form an army anymore
t_x

 

[bbrady413]

Well, this was my first completed Game Of The Month! I had a lot of fun. Great challenge.

I expanded as quick as possible, getting around 10 cities in my core to start. I took out the Iroquois first with a bunch of swordsmen I think. I then turned to the Mayans, as Persia looked a little too strong to take on. I took out Chichen Itza to start, since it had a few valuable wonders, including the Pyramids. I continued to build up a bunch of Keshiks, and when I had enough, took out the Mayans. I continued north until Japan and the Incas were gone. I then hopped over to the Babylon/Arabia area. When it was just me and the Persians, things got a bit slow. I utilized the cavalry well.

In the end, I had to rush a bunch of temples to expand cities, then fill in gaps with settlers. I ended up with a Domination victory with 66% and like 79% of the population.

I obviously still have a lot to learn considering I didn't win until about 1780, while other people here were winning about 1000 years earlier.

It was a great time though! I'm looking forward to the Germany game, and future games!

 

[vincentf]

It was a quick and fun game. I first went to the Iroquois to have an anchor on the east coast. Then I was sure to have to turn on the Mayas... but the Incas were more willing to be sacrificied first.

I was easily able to mount some coalition against them and again the following ennemies. And in the same time, I was often backstabbed by my so-called allies...

The Mayas took me 3 to 4 cities by culuture (I hate that).

Before the end of the Incas, the allied Persians DOWed me. They were then crushed, as did later my Arabs friends followed by the Babylonians. I just killed all of them once after the other.

I was facing Japan in order to get the last percentage to win when my MPP-ally Maya turned on me, took me by surprise some cities, quickly restored and that's it.

 

[templar_x]

@ bbrady413 - don´t wanna appear cocky, but it is 2000 years
cool you joined the competition!
t_x

 

[bbrady413]

@ bbrady413 - don´t wanna appear cocky, but it is 2000 years
cool you joined the competition!
t_x

No no, brag away! I'm a competitive person. It will inspire me to improve my game! I would say since I started frequenting this site and these forums, I've already picked up my game quite a bit! I've been a Civ player since the first one came out. I don't plan on quitting anytime soon!

 

[AlanH]

Someone is trying to submit a completed game save for this competition. But they are not filling in their forum user name and email address, and this produces an error message.

If you are that person, please complete the submission form correctly in order for us to be able to accept your save.

 

[Lanzelot]

First of all: this was already the second time in a COTM where on a "small" map I had to go to 100K. Isn't it supposed to be 80K? Bug in the COTM .biq? I was hoping to get the job done a bit faster, but no such luck for me...

This time I tried a different approach from the usual "hit dom limit asap and then pop-rush culture": I built the Artemis Temple early on, to get the culture rolling in early. Also I figured, on Regent I cannot count on the AI to build Artemis for me on time. Nothing would be worse than having to wait forever for it, so I just built it myself to be on the safe side.
Of course with our shield-poor start position it took a while and also slowed down the expansion phase quite considerably, but I think the experiment worked out quite ok: 1255 AD is not so bad considering that this is only a small 80x80 map where I had less territory to work with. (On bigger maps, 100K can usually be reached much faster.)

Quite unusual for me: I got tons of MGLs?! Usually I don't get any, even when conquering the entire world, but this time I got one very early, just in time when I was about to set up my Forbidden Palace, and a few more for Armies. At one point I even got two MGLs directly in a row, with two consecutive elite victories!!
(Of course these were of no particular use anymore, as I got them when I had only 2-3 more towns to go until dom limit...)

 

[AlanH]

Yes, the 'pedia says a Small map requires 80K, but don't forget that you also require at least twice your next rival's culture.

 

[Lanzelot]

I've got more than 15 times the culture of my next rival...

 

[AlanH]

I know - I checked your save after I posted.

I also checked the world size in the save, and it is set to 2, which is "Standard", not "Small". So I can confirm that the culture limit is set to 100K.

 

[mad-bax]

Kuningas has also complained about needing 100K culture to win 100K culture victory on a small map. Seems than noone complains about needing 100K culture on a large map though.

I have investigated this issue. The following is fact. There is no guessing involved.

The conquests 'pedia reports the required culture level per map size as shown in the below image.

The base biq provided with the game reports the required culture level as shown in the next image.

Note that these numbers are editable, but they are NOT tied to a map size.
I have generated random maps for all sizes, and these numbers do not change.

The PTW and Vanilla base scenario files do not have editable values for victory conditions. The tab does not exist.

The COTM scenario file replaces settler from hut, with worker from hut. Otherwise there is no change.

The following is conjecture (my best guess).

When you start a standard (not COTM) game the victory levels are hard coded as they were in PTW and Vanilla. The victory requirements will be as per the 'pedia.

By adding the ability to modify victory levels for conquests "they" have forgotten to tie the requirements to map sizes, and in so doing have introduced a bug which affects conquests only.

Back to fact.
I have never looked at this part of the scenario file before, though I suppose I should have when Kuningas first reported the issue.

So, yes, the culture victory limit should be 80,000 for this size map, and yes, it is 100,000 for this game. It has in fact been wrong for every COTM that was not played on a standard size map.


Knowing what I do now, I can ensure that the victory point limits are set appropriately in future. I can't change the present or past.

 

[supersova_SU]

Domination 280 AD
Firaxis score: 6111
Jason score: 11382

 

[jimmywfl]

hurrying through the game, i indeed found some time to squeeze that one in before my job won´t allow that again... and finished the game fast. not to animate the fights actually really helps saving time!



here are my notes:

COTM106

Opening moves:
Scout-E sees wheat, worker-N acknowledges oasis, settler-NE and founds there 3950bc. Scout opens hut 4NE of starting position for maps. 
3850bc 2nd hut gives CB and finds eles.
3700bc meet Maya, CB+WC for MAS+10g
3550bc Karakorum grows to 3 with a worker
3300bc maps from 3rd hut 
3200bc 25g from 4th hut
3150bc meet Iros. MAS+CB for ALPHA+BW+10g
ALPHA for Mayan MYST
3100bc settler
2950bc found Ta-Tu 1E2SE (i see the other wheat in the opposite direction only this turn &#61516
2900bc hut gives 25g
2750bc settler
2630bc see first barb with no military
Found Kazan 2W2NW
Met Inca somehow, trade CB for 10g
2430bc scout finds western end of pangaea :/
Settler from capital, ivory connected
3250bc trade Alpha for TW, but the closest horse ressource was already taken by the Iros
2310bc meet Arabia
2270bc found Almarikh 3SW, meet Persia, trade CB for 10g, Writing in, CoL next
2030bc vet warrior from capital, first in an 8t warrior/settler combo factory without a gran
1990bc hut gives 25g
1830bc trade Alpha+Pot for IW, closest iron i can see is faaar away
1790bc settler
1750bc Philo in 6, Maya quite predictably declare war, 1st elite
1725bc 1st e fight without MGL
Meet Baby, trade Alpha for 20g
1675bc found Tabriz 1N4NW
1650bc slingshot complete, Rep in, only 2 turns of anarchy! :yippie:
1600bc first turn in Rep
1575bc hut gives Lit :haha:
Trade for HB and switch research off
1550bc destroy Mayan horse town
1375bc take Chichen Itza  losing two elite bows 
Make peace for their 2nd last town. It is a very rare situation, where the AI even gives away a ressource town! (with horses in the east, have hardly ever seen this before)
1275bc found horse town+immediately connect horses. Meet last civ, Japan, trade Pot for 12g.
1225bc Arabs leave or declare – declare
1100bc trick Iros to declare… take 1st town, try to get them out of the game before they get their hands on HR
1000bc take Salamanca, no more horses or Iros
My eastern highway already goes past the Mayan empire, narrowing Inca
975bc get all Iro towns but 1 in a peace deal
825bc Mayans gone after short 2nd (honorable) war
610bc Incas and Iros destroyed (maybe one already the turn before)
510bc naval invasion in southern Arabia 
490bc finally 5th lux connected, back to 0% lux tax. MM practically in its end state.
450bc Japan gone
350bc 6th lux connected, totally overlooked that i could have done that way earlier
With my 17th e victory i get my first MGL not that it would matter at all any more 
310bc or the turn before: 7th lux connected
290bc Persia gone
2nd MGL with 18th e victory now they are coming.
210bc Arabs gone
190bc last attack… 3rd MGL with 19th e victory
150bc conquest. Damn. An unfortunate army loss cost me 2 turns… 
Otherwise a fun game, thanks.

E victories IIIII IIIII IIIII IIII

t_x

I must be missing something very basic in how to play. I have tried to duplicate your play, cheating at every turn, and cannot even come close. Any possiblity of your giving me more info or some intermediate saves? I am waiting for the results to replay your game.

 

[templar_x]

Jimmy, i posted practically the same post a couple of years ago. It took me a while and it required finding this site until I found out that cheating is by far not the strongest sword you could (ab)use to win the game.

i will be happy to explain some of the things that are necessary to do in order to get such a game finished fast. let us wait for the results, there may be others even considerably faster, and you might want to rather ask them.

t_x

 

[Più Freddo]

Jimmy, I recommend reading the articles of the War Academy on this site. Some are of course better than others. The ones treating individual tribes are e.g. unnecessary. Begin with Bamspeedy's Settler article.

If you'd rather read spoilers, then search for the excellent and informative spoilers of Sir Pleb in the earlier GOTM and COTM threads.

 

[templar_x]

if i get that right, that appears to be a row of posts by old Viennese civvers... on an international civ site.
t_x