Could someone explain the excuses civs give for not becoming vassals?

[Akbarthegreat]

Title says it.
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1."It is not possible for us to join the war on your side"
2."It is not possible for you to join the war on our side"
3."We have enough on our hands right now"
4."We are doing fine on our own"
5."Your land is too far away"
6."Sorry, we can't do that"
7."You have grown too powerful for us"
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1 means that they have a peace treaty with someone you are at war with.
2 means that you have a peace treaty with someone they are at war with.
3 means that they are already at war with someone, and do not want another war.
4 means that they aren't weak.
5 means that you aren't on their continent.
So could someone explain 6 and 7? And correct any mistakes I made in explaining 1-5?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

6 means the AI is saying Baylife bro aka I don't give a funk about what you want I am the AI. 7 means you are to close to winning Dom so they won't let you do it the easy way by vassaling them for free. Get war success and they will be your biach.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

6 means the AI is saying Baylife bro aka I don't give a funk about what you want I am the AI. 7 means you are to close to winning Dom so they won't let you do it the easy way by vassaling them for free. Get war success and they will be your biach.

Turkey was saying that in war, when I had beaten them up bad.

 

[tdy99]

Has nothing to do with vassals, but my favorite AI line is "Surely, you must be joking" when they don't want to trade a resource. It's always something stupid too, like they have 5 rice and you could give them a food resource they don't have in exchange for one.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Has nothing to do with vassals, but my favorite AI line is "Surely, you must be joking" when they don't want to trade a resource. It's always something stupid too, like they have 5 rice and you could give them a food resource they don't have in exchange for one.

That happens when you too have the resource they have.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Does anyone have the answer for 6 ? I'm curious

 

[The7Sins]

Turkey was saying that in war, when I had beaten them up bad.

Then beat them up more. Some Civs and leaders take a lot to get to vassal

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Just figured that 7 means that the vassal limit has been reached.

 

[Manco Capac]

Talk about a thread in regards to an excuse I didn't understand!

"We're fine on our own" was my problem.
If the AI has 2/3 or more of power of the agressor, then the target thinks they still can survive the onset.

7. IIRC, it only adresses peacevassaling; a situation where vassal's lands or/and population will make you trip over both domination conditions.

6. Idk

You forgot another excuse: "We are afraid of your enemies!"

 

[Archon_Wing]

I've never seen 6 before. O_O

 

[TheMeInTeam]

"We're fine on our own" was my problem.
If the AI has 2/3 or more of power of the agressor, then the target thinks they still can survive the onset.

It will also return this garbage message if target's power is > average of all civs, regardless of how badly it is getting its pants pulled down. Unfortunately, the game calculates vassals, colonies, almost dead civs etc when making this average.

ALSO, if the target trips the "islandtarget" code with another civ that is at war with it, it will capitulate at much higher power levels than it would otherwise. Same thing in reverse if the target itself has a vassal; it can be nearing death and probably won't capitulate unless the game is basically over.

 

[Manco Capac]

It will also return this garbage message if target's power is > average of all civs, regardless of how badly it is getting its pants pulled down. Unfortunately, the game calculates vassals, colonies, almost dead civs etc when making this average.

That would explain why Suleiman (in a recent game) didn't give in although my war success was obviously more than 40 pts, capturing 4 out of his 5 cities and losing few units AND having a power ratio of ~6, far weaker than the weakest AI. In fact, even with his last weakened defender, he still thought he can make it against me. Seriously, that was so pathetic I had to free him from his misery...

 

[capnvonbaron]

Yeah I've had that happen before. I was beating so bad on Justinian he renounced protection from Sully (who, of course, I was also at war with). However, he was so furious he wouldn't even consider peace, even after I was outside the gates of his last city a dozen turns later. I was forced to kill him outright... weirdest situation I've ever had vassal-wise.

 

[Manco Capac]

Yeah I've had that happen before. I was beating so bad on Justinian he renounced protection from Sully (who, of course, I was also at war with). However, he was so furious he wouldn't even consider peace, even after I was outside the gates of his last city a dozen turns later. I was forced to kill him outright... weirdest situation I've ever had vassal-wise.

Oh! That is interesting. My sully had a acquired peace vassal, Ragnar. That might be the unknown factor of his unwillingness to give in.

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No one has answered the "We can't do that!" yet.
I will look for that one tonight.

 

[capnvonbaron]

Might've been some confusion, I was talking about Justinian unwilling to talk (forcing his destruction by my hand) even after renouncing Sully's protection (or lack thereof)... Sully later fell into my collection after I rounded up my forces from old Byantium and spanked Ottomania.

But yeah, civs won't vassal if they themselves have a vassal... tho I don't know if its mechanically impossible or just highly unlikely. I just know that I've never seen a civ willing to vassallize to me until their vassal renounced protection. It can be incredibly annoying when you've accumulated a large force to destroy an out-of-control rival, and a turn or two before war, Mansa or Ghandi or some other turd peace-vassals to them

 

[TheMeInTeam]

But yeah, civs won't vassal if they themselves have a vassal... tho I don't know if its mechanically impossible or just highly unlikely.

Unlikely, because they count vassal power towards their own and the world average still applies. However, it can happen (i've capped civs that still had a vassal, causing an instant break of their vassal who also capped).

 

[Tatran]

But yeah, civs won't vassal if they themselves have a vassal... tho I don't know if its mechanically impossible or just highly unlikely.

Friendly civs with a vassal can also offer themselves as a vassal.
I've seen Huayna Capac and Shaka doing so and giving up their vassal/colony.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Ok, I got official confirmation from Dan that 'You've grown too powerful for us' means that you will go over domination.

Yes, AIs will deny voluntary vassalage with "You've grown too powerful for us." because otherwise the game would be over due to you winning a domination victory. This has nothing to do with your military power.

 

[i_imperator]

If they wont cap just kill them, problem solved

 

[Manco Capac]

If they wont cap just kill them, problem solved

Easier said than done on highest levels. And ,in competition, a very non-competitive more.

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Anything about "We can't do that.".
And the "We are afraid of your enemies!"? I noticed a wierd behaviour from Sury using that reason because he was afraid of icy Ragnar (in other words backward and weak) and the moment I killed two of his units in the BFC of a city, suddenly Sury agreed to capitulation.
I wonder about immediate thread factor. I remember DanF said something about barb(or enemy units) in BFC impedes AI city liberating. Now, I am starting to feel the same for capitulation. May be wrong though.