Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Northern Palmyra, Feb 25, 2019.
this is the next level thinking I was looking for.
For Eleanor it does not matter what the work is, just that you have one... you are flipping cities primarily and an artist is a -3 loyalty a lot faster... considering an archaeologist is 1600 gold to buy. You can only move full artefact museums but you also can only move art once per 10 turns. You can also take cathedrals for religious art as many artists have that. Get your art museum built in your oracle/Pingala city first.
confirmed, apply to one of your cities with a Harbor.
it wouldn't be a mistake. Having enough works shouldnt be a problem at all, you simply move them as you expand. They're basically your actual troops lol.
its defensively I need generally I let the Navy bombard then move troops in/capture then I struggle to hold the gains, culture flipping is a fairly new mechanic to me so not sure how to use it
You're going to definitely need more arch museums on deity though. You need -25+ to get to the point where you can hit through religion, governer and other bonuses, but once you do usually it means the whole swath of cities is yours.
For that you normally won't generate more than a handful of artists per game so you often need a lot of artefacts to help out. Maybe 3:1 arch to art is a good ratio.
Once you've flipped your first swath of cities purchasing museums and archeologists outright is no problem with all the gold you generate. Only thing that slows this down is your own eventual CV and the need to grow pop in the newly acquired cities to get to build the TS district (some AIs don't build these at all... Instead they build useless encampments and IZs)
This only works if the cities are closely clumped together. On Large+ sized maps, it does next to nothing.
Detonating two indie rock bands on the same turn in the same city (provided that city would flip to you in case of a rebellion) is the easiest way to make Court of Love work. Ridiculously efficient. Hallyu + Eleanor is game-breaking, it allows you to absorb cities from ALLIES, for ZERO GRIEVANCES. Good thing it comes super late, but it's a very easy way to finish off Domination victory without needing to declare war.
Otherwise, attack anyone with a strong culture game. Eleanor is a very strong anti-CV warmonger. Capture the cities with great works (or great work slots) and watch how the AI helplessly loses all of their cities.
Not necessarily tru, as I said earlier, building an art museum creates artist points, do not build them and you do not get them. Pingala, Oracle, art museum is a really good start. Projects, art wonders.
I'm pretty sure arch museums also generate artist points too, no? After a while the artists start costing 810 gpp which takes forever to get. Archaeologists have no such cost scaling.
The project thing I have yet to try though... Does Pingala also double GPP from projects?
the problem I find with cultural victory attempts if I attract an overabundance of great people and I am unable to provide places for their great works
yes, the main thing is you build one where you generate the points first. As @NorthernPalmyra says, it is easy to end up in a situation of not enough art museums and not enough money to get your archaeologists fast enough.
Yes, this and empty archaeological museums.
As I originally said, the four of love is about having lots of objects sooner, not ones of more value.
Only played a little yesterday but i went for a hybrid strategy on museums. One of my border cities had an art museum, the other archaeologist. Although the art museum was filled as quickly as it can be, the archaeological museum didn't really take much longer.
Heroic Age monumentality let me buy archaeologist with faith which was nice, although since I did end up getting Mont St. Michel I think it might have been better spent on apostles. Workers still cheap enough to sprinkle in where needed.
My first spy was killed on his second mission which is derailing my plans quite a bit, I do feel like as though once I flip this city it's over for Scotland. I eradicated their religion and have them surrounded with theatre squares and about to do some bread and circuses timed to hit when my next spy eliminates the governor.
Kongo may help me because they just declared war on scotland in an area with low pop cities which will probably flip to me right away if Kongo takes any, funny they are both my allies.
This is one of the weirdest games of civ I've ever played so far.
Just a metter of interest, what turn are you on?
Not sure I don't have the game with me at work lol but I will check when I get home. It's the beginning of Renaissance in the era score system, I've already got conservation though... science lagging a bit (a lot).
Perhaps if you play completely peacefully. I took out 1 civ before loyalty rolling the 2nd with a hybrid warmongering-instaflip strategy and it worked out well. I took 4 cities with units and the other 11 rolled over via loyalty.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with your assessment that I won't be able to acquire great artists. I was able to acquire more than a few. The game was deity and it included both Pericles and Russian AI's. I did take out one civ early/mid game so perhaps I had more opportunity to create museums than a 100% peace strategy. Here is the screenshot of the GW's before the cascade. I had 8 to 4 art vs. archeology museums.
Spoiler T174 :
After the cascade I had 12 art to 9 archeology museums.
Spoiler T202 :
I agree with your assessment of generating extra population (problem) and gold purchasing archeologists and museums (easy). The problem I had with the COL ability is that it flipped a few too many civs to the dustbin of history and there weren't enough tourists left for a CV. IMO Eleanor is a mid game bloomer hybrid-warmonger civ like Spain. The insta-flip is augmented best by taking out key cities with your military to expedite the loyalty cascade.
Even with all that conquering (as I said before, you could've just ended it anyway you want if you took out one civ early... it makes every VC domination in disguise so if I go for any other thing I do it peacefully as a matter of my own definition/playstyle), but even so, I only count 4 art museums filled and we are left with a whole lot of empty slots.... Take into account stuff like possible cathedrals and hermitage (which I find is the most convenient industrial era wonder to build... and triggers flight eureka nicely) and I think anything above 6 art museums is most likely going to be wasted even if you get Bologna (and I play Kongo usually... I only get ~4 art museums and then ~8-10 archaeological ones)... I guess if you play Kongo AND get Bologna you might fill up 10+, but I highly doubt the game's not over before then.
The first GA is a whopping 240 points... maximum I believe is 3-4/era before the one from the next era incurs a huge spike in cost. Having Russia and Greece in game will starve you of great writers, but no so much great artists due to this fact. Early GPP from their districts do not earn that many GAs. Now, there is simply a pretty fixed cap as to how many GAs you can realistically earn and in my exp, if you end sub t200 you won't have many. Now, for those warmongers with 30 cities who run projects MAYBE you can get 8 GAs... but it's not realistic in my own exp.
In this specific game, there wasn't all that much conquering. I took out a civ early then an emergency war in which I conquered 4 cities and flipped 11. I went on to 100% peacefully flip Russia, India and Australia just for the fun of doing it peacefully. Could I have expedited via war? Yes. Is that the more efficient way to play Eleanor in either of her incarnations? IMO yes.
As of T174 I had 21 great works of art (7 great artists worth).
Edit: But the trick is, I needed to create more forward located art museums as I advanced so I could place my GW's.
I can't plan on cathedrals so I generally ignore them. If I have them in a given game, all the better. I can perhaps build more archeology museums.
Again, as of T174 had 21 great works of art. I prefer the great works of art to artifacts as I can move then as needed (only 10 turn wait). By the time I need to redeploy to another location outside the 9 tile aura, the 10 turns will usually have elapsed. Artifacts on the other hand get to be slim pinkings indeed as you not only need to create/buy the archeologist but get him to the increasing rare and distant artifacts. You can't just move 3 artifacts into a new archeology museum. You have to fill it completely before you can move any artifacts. This will necessarily slow down your COL loyalty assault.
I'm not used to the domino when a neighbouring city is in a normal age, it is quite impressive - someone called her "the borg queen" on another thread, it's well deserved !
She requires a bit of planning, because the -1 loyalty hasn't a big effect on its own, you need to add many ones (relics, cathedral, etc.) in order to be effective, but the most impressive feature is to avoid the "free city" state.
In my current game, I declined an awful polish city, it spent 10 turns as a free city ; I wanted to raze it, but I've been clumsy and slow so it went back to Poland.
Now its loyalty doesn't seem to move ; will it remain the last polish city standing (stuck between a volcano and Akkad), or will it fall again sooner or later ?
Don't forget Taj Mahal too. Helps ensure you are always in a golden age.
the tl;dr summation of Eleanor is that her ability is fairly trash when you're not going to war with somebody. Peacefully flipping Cities requires a lot of micro management and well, luck. It doesn't always work. Your spies formenting unrest will be captured or killed. Your opponent will increase loyalty by having Victor or Amani in their cities. You have to build wonders in border cities, which aren't properly set up yet.
Warmonger Eleanor though? Take all the high pop cities and you'll blob everyone, always, anywhere.
Funnily enough, Eleanor is also excellent at Culture Victory not because of her inherent ability, but because your efforts in trying to make it work require you to heavily invest in Theatre Squares, Rock Bands and Wonders or killing off Culturally stronger opponents for their Great Works, all of which are actions that win CV.
... you are saying a civ is better because of the way you play it. It is true to some degree but too subjective to state that makes her a better culture civ. Are spies and wonders more efficient (better) than broadcast towers and projects? < real question.
Weird seeing this in a really nice objective view of the civ otherwise but an interesting throw in, as you said “funnily enough”.
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