Cowards !

[docceh]

Ok, Sid, Ok - You really didn't think about this one did you...

[rant: topic = 'Fast Unit' Retreating.]

Why.. OH WHY isn't there an OPTION saying whether you wish to always retreat, or retreat this time or never retreat ??

How many battles do you know could be won if those cowards stayed and fought to the bitter end? There is no point in having a whole load of 1 hp units that get picked off by the enemy the next turn! I have lost count of the number of times a unit on 1 hit point has turned the battle around and won.... its sooo annoying!

STAY AND FIGHT DAMMIT !

[/rant]

-docceh

 

[Salvor]

You can say "stay and fight" all you want, but the reality of warfare is that there is a phenomenon known as a "rout". Lucky for you the routed units are fast enough to escape without being cut down as they retreat.

 

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Salvor
You can say "stay and fight" all you want, but the reality of warfare is that there is a phenomenon known as a "rout". Lucky for you the routed units are fast enough to escape without being cut down as they retreat.

No, because if civ3 represented "routs" then 1-hp slow units would not be able to deal any damage, and automatically die. If a slow unit can fight on just as well with 1 hp, then a fast unit should be able to as well. So i think retreat is a calculated decision by the generals to save what they can of the unit, and get out of there. And certainly a dictator can override a general's decisions (if you retreat you lose your head, etc.)

 

[sealman]

I wish there was an option where your unit does not move into the tile that a fast unit just vacated. Sometimes I do not want to advance.

My generals should know this, why else did we build the war college! Off with their heads! Or take teh brave way out - :suicide:

 

[docceh]

Yes, but surly you would agree that you must be given the option to retreat?

Even if some system of morale based on power or culture is introduced. For example, if you had a greater score/power/culture than the Civ you were attacking had, or if you were attacking a less advanced unit (Modern Armour vs Spearman? ) you would not retreat as the odds are in your favour, thus, troop morale would be high? Just a thought.

- docceh

 

[Salvor]

You have a point, simwiz. My take is that a rout is not a 100% thing, so 1-hp units shouldn't die every time. Maybe they should have a reduced attack, though. And since it's not a 100%, maybe fast units shouldn't retreat EVERY time. Thanks for the insight.

However, it is true that a fast unit will be more likely to rout than a trapped unit. Sun Tzu, in his famous "Art of War" states many times over that a trapped enemy will fight much more ferociously than one that has an escape route.

As for dictators overriding generals, this can happen (remember Hitler?). But nobody can override the fear felt by the individual soldier. There have been many dictators in history, and many of their troops retreated from battle against their wishes. Any general knows this, whether he's been to college or not.

In a combat situation there's no way any general or dictator can control the actions of every soldier on the field. So sometimes they will retreat even if that's not what you ordered them to do. It happens. But I now agree that perhaps the retreat shouldn't be automatic. It would be nice if you could give a "hold at all costs" order that would reduce but not eliminate the likelihood of the retreat.

Finally, if you don't want your unit to advance into a square, don't attack into that square. It's that simple. You can't attack and force an enemy to retreat unless you yourself are moving forward. Attacking without advancing makes absolutely no sense.

 

[omichyron]

When I stack cavalry with my infantry, I find retreating very useful. It does reduce casualties in some instances. On the other hand, yeah, it can be annoying. What good does it do before Battlefield Medicine? At this point you just have a very weak force stranded somewhere that can never heal.

Edited because I realized I was talking a lot and saying very little.

 

[docceh]

JINX !!! :crazyeyes

 

[docceh]

I'll ... uhh... get me coat [punch]

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by sealman
I wish there was an option where your unit does not move into the tile that a fast unit just vacated. Sometimes I do not want to advance.

Civ3 is a strategy game and the squares are miles wide. The units are attempting to occupy the other units square. If you succeed, it means you entered that square. You can't hit them with your sword -- or even shoot them with your gun -- if you are miles away.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Salvor
maybe fast units shouldn't retreat EVERY time.

Fast units don't always retreat. If the enemy unit is also down to one hp (in other words, there is a reasonable chance of survival), then they will fight the last round. Otherwise they retreat with one hp. It may not be a "rout," just call it an extremely swift withdrawal.

 

[Salvor]

OK, whatever. I don't have a problem with how the game works, but for once simwiz was right and I was wrong and I thought I should give him credit for that.

 

[sealman]

Originally posted by Zachriel


Civ3 is a strategy game and the squares are miles wide. The units are attempting to occupy the other units square. If you succeed, it means you entered that square. You can't hit them with your sword -- or even shoot them with your gun -- if you are miles away.

True. I do not know about other players, but I for one like using artillery and build a lot of pieces and protect them with some infantry. If possible I will tend to place this group in hills or mountains but when a seriously damaged pazer is passing by, I have to take a shot at it with my infantry, if nothing else is around, and after the victory, I need to bring down the artillery or risk it's loss.

Hit and Run tactics have worked throughout history, why can't we use them as well?

 

[loki]

Originally posted by Zachriel


Fast units don't always retreat. If the enemy unit is also down to one hp (in other words, there is a reasonable chance of survival), then they will fight the last round. Otherwise they retreat with one hp. It may not be a "rout," just call it an extremely swift withdrawal.

There is something weird about that though. Consider a Tank (not a moder armor) which attacks (without moving beforehand) a unit, goes down to one hp and retreats : you can attack another time with it.
I don't quite understand, is that a bug?

loki

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by loki

There is something weird about that though. Consider a Tank (not a moder armor) which attacks (without moving beforehand) a unit, goes down to one hp and retreats : you can attack another time with it.
I don't quite understand, is that a bug?

loki

Not trying to push the abstraction toooo far:
The soldiers regrouped and decided to give it one final push.