[BTS] Crashmon Shadow Game 2 :- Emperor

[sampsa]

While stone and copper are bad tiles, a combo brings in 11 later for units.

Yeh, settling on copper devalues the stone-tile a bit, because no shared corn means less for copper-stone city. At size 3 working two farms and stone it does produce +3+7 though, which is pretty decent for a city with no -resource.

edit: +3+7 is the same as a city working a dry corn and two grass hills. Didn't even at first realize it's that good.

 

[NightOnEarth]

Crashmon, regarding 3rd city it's like chess, I think. There is no best move. Every option has pros and cons. You'll have to make a decision and stick to it.

A quick summary:
- you settle the copper (+2+3) and could immediately start building an axe by chopping. You can further grow on two farms and work the stone netting +3+7 at size 3 as sampsa pointed out.
Disadvantage, sharing the corn if off once and for all, although you could build an east city sharing the pig with London.
- you could settle 1NE of the copper, improve the copper (no road needed to connect - krikav), build two farms and finally improve the stone, netting +1+11 at size 4 as Fippy pointed out. With AH and pigs pastured, you can grow on the corn in between.
Disadvantages a) you loose several turns b) pasturing the pigs has a higher priority c) when the copper is improved you cannot grow on it as long as 3rd city is size 1.
- I think settling 1N is off, because it kills a farm for further growing - but this is just my personal opinion. By killing the second farm you must work the corn with 3rd city or you are crippled to size 2 or you just connect the copper but don't work it, what would kill a +6 tile.

Just an idea regarding York: Is it reasonable to grow on a farmed floodplain while cottaging the 2nd one? Later, the farm could be turned into a cottage.

 

[crashmon]

Moving the warrior onto the copper hill might also expose a few more tiles... I'll do that tomorrow morning when I can play it again....

If we are really lucky we might have horse somewhere as well

 

[sampsa]

You can't farm two grasslands if you go NE of copper, since the 2nd river grass requires a border pop. Both 1N and 1NE are able to get one grass farm (without a border pop) only on copper gets both, but it doesn't share corn. I personally would disregard NE immediately, killing a forest (20) for 2nd ring river grass is not my thing.

Just an idea regarding York: Is it reasonable to grow on a farmed floodplain while cottaging the 2nd one? Later, the farm could be turned into a cottage.

I would probably farm one, yes.

 

[NightOnEarth]

You can't farm two grasslands if you go NE of copper, since the 2nd river grass requires a border pop.

Yes, you are right. Stupid me!

 

[crashmon]

Turn 40

• Settler is 1N of Copper (with a worker who can start either a farm or mine depending on where we settle)
• We have Fur to south as well
• once worker has finished in London, will switch to building a couple of warriors

Spoiler Map :

• Am thinking of settling on Copper, then starting to chop Axe (does the Fur make any change here? don't think it matters right now)
  
• Northern Worker, should I chop the York worker, or build a camp on Ivory? Thinking I'm not near size 3 yet, and if I settle on Copper, won't be sharing corn either, so chopping before camp here, but is thinking correct

Will sleep now, and make next update tomorrow, but right now I am 75% on Copper, and 25% 1N of copper in my thinking

 

[Nick723]

Yeah I think I prefer on the copper too.

if capital switching to a warrior now, with the other worker I’d build a camp. Should be done in time for size 3 alongside the warrior and then you can build the next settler with those 3 tiles.

Camps are nice tiles for building the pyramids later too.

 

[krikav]

Fur makes no difference, but the layout of the southern icy coast looks abit like a copper settlement might kill off seafood..?
Chop into the worker sounds better than going for the camp first.

 

[Nick723]

Good cross post with @krikav - completely opposite advice!

In some ways, shows what a good game civ 4 is! If pushed, I’d go with krikav’s advice over mine tho

 

[civac]

Absolutely look for sea food first. Could make that spot way better.

 

[krikav]

Haha, yea nice with polar opposite advices where both sides have merits.

 

[sampsa]

Oh, didn't realize capital has 3rd worker out already next turn. Been a pretty fast start thanks to forests even if the land is not very lush. I think I'd chop/whip worker in York, can start farming a floodplain then. Actually also without whip makes sense, as @krikav pointed out it's a low-city so need to be careful with whips and the 4th worker is not that urgent. Ivories are not very important yet, and chops are more important! 4 workers is fine anyway, you have lots of work to be done pretty soon.

2nd ring ice beaver matters very little (+1 some day though), but killing a coastal seafood would be annoying (I wouldn't lose my sleep over ocean fish). This is why scouting the right spots is important! Area to the west is too far to settle at this point, so you shouldn't care much what's there. The exact best spot for the 3rd city is pretty important though especially when you have fishing, so the coasts are important to check. I think I'd take the risk and move warrior 1SW next turn as I think only that reveals the tile 3S copper. Not sure what you are planning to do with that worker btw? Ah, farm if founded on copper, improve copper if founded on green. You could've put down some partial roads though, but not a big deal. If on copper, I think I'd just get the max value of the insta-copper and put a chop towards an axe, only then start farming. As mentioned before, main reason for a swift axe is securing and scouting for city spots in the east.

Warrior in NW - I think your plan is to double them on the plains hill, then move together to the next plains hill, a plan that I like. If secure, you can consider carefully whether to move one of them towards south or not. You don't want to fight archers, but they are coming for you in 20 turns.

edit: Also @crashmon , kudos for taking it slow and patient. The start is way more intricate than the Ramesess-one, which was quite straight-forward and just settling a beautiful spot after another.

 

[pigswill]

If you're going to settle on copper I'm wondering if you needed early AH, horses are nice but not a priority if you've got copper (and ivory for later elepult rush).

 

[krikav]

Yes, if settling on the copper, the utility of pasturing the pigs are lowered too.

 

[sampsa]

Perhaps the tech path was a bit messy indeed, but I don't think it has really caused an issue. Pottery would have a lot of use as well, as it allows to start on cottages and granaries. AH allows capital to grow though, probably timing well with 2-pop whipping granary.

 

[crashmon]

Turn 46

• No Seafood so decided to settle on copper we will see if this bites us later in game
  
• Have chopped an axe (1 Turn)
• London just hit size 3, am working Ivory so Cap can use it as third tile, will Pasture Pigs as soon as its finished (next turn)
  
• London just build warrior (Do I now go for settler 4? as we have horses nearby to east)
• Have started a farm on one of the FPS next to York
• Now teching Pottery, think we will need Cottages soon (+ Granaries)

Spoiler Maps + Diplo :

• Thinking 4th City 3E from Cap. It has 2 Grass River tiles which could have at least 1 farm, can share Pigs, can use horses. Seems best spot to east for city 4
• In Nottingham, once I have the AXE built, guess another axe while we tech Pottery
• Thinking of chopping settler in London for city 4
• After Pottery then writing I think. With Axes don't need HA's or Archers I don't think right now

Lots of potential options here, also looks like everybody hates Korea and Asoka right now (have put Diplo screen in screenshot)

 

[krikav]

3E of capital looks good, but I would want the east more scouted before making such a choice, perticuallarly the coast by the gold.
Might be better to push west or north-west first too, before filling up in the east which seems to be secured backfill area?
Horse by the western sheep makes that spot abit better too.

 

[crashmon]

Will take a few turns to chop out settler, and will have axe next turn, so should be able to get over there for scouting soonish, so can make a call then

Pretty sure Korea is to the west, as that is where his scout came from, think all others are north of Asoka

 

[sampsa]

It will take 6T at least before your axe reaches the gold spot, so you can't settle 4th before that I guess. I think you should start the settler in cap next turn though, after warrior is done. I'd switch immediately, but the settler is out the same turn no matter what thanks to overflow. I would not put any chops towards the settler I think, just not that urgent. I think now, before pottery is done and workers are occupied cottaging, would be a nice time to connect the southern city with a road (pig-corn-stone-x). An issue though, since you have hunting, connecting copper means you can no longer build warriors and all partial warrior are transformed being towards a spear. No big deal, you can get the one out in York before that.

Pottery is due in 8T I think so I'd plan the worker actions so that the road is done and pigs improved by then. Not sure about tech after pottery. Writing is an option, but so is myst-masonry.

 

[sampsa]

You can also go horse-sheep first, in which case the road should go that way I guess. It's a bit of a -drain as no river, but I think you can take it as pottery is so close anyway.