Create a civ that cannot declare war or conquer cities

[Temppu]

Can I comment on the kit itself? rather than the civ and ability choice?
It is a nice idea to try shut down one victory route completely and focus on the others.

But the point is, your Switzerland is currently pointing to no where, except for sitting peacefully.
Take reference to Kongo. They cannot win religiously but they have got fierce cultural advantage and also edge in other routes.

Sure, you sure did bring up important issues. This set is not my design, but i find the civ ability interesting in the way it compromises restrcting city locations to avoid getting DoWs. However, the civ would need some bonuses, because not being able to DoW kind of balances the set already.

On an additional note, does Conden heretic, or whatever the name of combat units killing religious units, require DoW? If not, any civ with the ability to avoid getting DoWs has strong inclination to religious victories.

 

[Turrdy]

It would depend on which leader they pick though. I'm not really interested in any of the Swiss leaders I've seen suggested or used in mods, Dufour, Guisan, Zwingli included.

I think the only civ-VI-worthy leader would be William Tell, maybe not a real and true head of state like say a king of some sort, but he has a lot of character. Comparable to Cathrene de Medici or Gilgamesh...

But i don't think Switzerland made a very good non-war-civ. It's only since recently (in historical context) that it's dedicated to neutrality. In medieval times there were a lot of wars where Switzerland played a part. Nevertheless it would fit nicely in a R&F spot concerning the new mechanics. For example since Switzerland is influenced by all its neighboring countries (some parts speak German, some French, some Italian) the swiss people still did hold together and did not change their loyalities to those countries.

A nice special ability would be that swiss cities who'd lose loyality wouldn't flip into free cities but always remained swiss, but with some drawbacks like no or lowered growth, production, science, and culture output.
Another possible trait would be bonuses to commercial/science/cultural alliances but not being able to make military alliances.

many ideas!

 

[Siptah]

I think the only civ-VI-worthy leader would be William Tell, maybe not a real and true head of state like say a king of some sort, but he has a lot of character. Comparable to Cathrene de Medici or Gilgamesh...

But i don't think Switzerland made a very good non-war-civ. It's only since recently (in historical context) that it's dedicated to neutrality. In medieval times there were a lot of wars where Switzerland played a part. Nevertheless it would fit nicely in a R&F spot concerning the new mechanics. For example since Switzerland is influenced by all its neighboring countries (some parts speak German, some French, some Italian) the swiss people still did hold together and did not change their loyalities to those countries.

A nice special ability would be that swiss cities who'd lose loyality wouldn't flip into free cities but always remained swiss, but with some drawbacks like no or lowered growth, production, science, and culture output.
Another possible trait would be bonuses to commercial/science/cultural alliances but not being able to make military alliances.

many ideas!

I like it, just without Tell and it‘s been 500 years since 1515, no? It‘s pretty long in my opinion, compared to others. (Even if it is not true). Although the first 332 years were filled with a lot of civil and religious wars instead of „peace.“

 

[Guandao]

I like it, just without Tell and it‘s been 500 years since 1515, no? It‘s pretty long in my opinion, compared to others. (Even if it is not true). Although the first 332 years were filled with a lot of civil and religious wars instead of „peace.“

How much do you want your home country to become an official Civ in Civ6?

 

[Siptah]

How much do you want your home country to become an official Civ in Civ6?

I think Switzerland has several options for rather unique abilities and play style, that's why I want it. I'm not Swiss by the way.

 

[steveg700]

From the perspective of verisimilitude, I would suggest shifting focus from a civilization that cannot make war to an alternate leader. Civilizations that would never wage war no matter how much their survival was on the line might be something of a specious pursuit. A leader whose policy advocated peace at all costs would be a lot easier to contend. Basically, any leader trying to promote economic prosperity avoids war, because the first order of war is to cancel debts with the enemy.

 

[steveg700]

I think the only civ-VI-worthy leader would be William Tell, maybe not a real and true head of state like say a king of some sort, but he has a lot of character. Comparable to Cathrene de Medici or Gilgamesh...

But i don't think Switzerland made a very good non-war-civ. It's only since recently (in historical context) that it's dedicated to neutrality. In medieval times there were a lot of wars where Switzerland played a part. Nevertheless it would fit nicely in a R&F spot concerning the new mechanics. For example since Switzerland is influenced by all its neighboring countries (some parts speak German, some French, some Italian) the swiss people still did hold together and did not change their loyalities to those countries.!

Well, let's draw a distinction here. The Swiss of the middle ages played a part in wars as the mercenary pikemen elite. They didn't wage wars specifically because they were selling their services to all sides. They got out of the soldier-for-hire business because they were so successful at it that there were battles where it was the Swiss butchering the Swiss. What that leads to is the epitome of war weariness. Of course, this all suggests that Switzerland is better off as a city-state whose units can be levied. Having said that....

But the point is, your Switzerland is currently pointing to no where, except for sitting peacefully.
Take reference to Kongo. They cannot win religiously but they have got fierce cultural advantage and also edge in other routes.

A focus on wealth generation lends itself to any victory condition.

 

[halfhalfharp]

A focus on wealth generation lends itself to any victory condition.

Where is the "wealth generation" are you referring in the kit? Did I miss anything in it?

 

[steveg700]

Where is the "wealth generation" are you referring in the kit? Did I miss anything in it?

Well, that kit was pretty much a loose sketch, so not much to miss, but I was just musing. I mean, Switzerland *should* have an economic focus, right?

 

[Kyro]

I would argue for such a Civilization to be created if non-warmongering strategies are actually efficient, but the inability to declare even protectorate wars or conquer other cities is a such huge handicap in Civ 6 that I'm afraid no amount of unique ability consistent with what the game has implemented is going to make up for that limitation.

 

[halfhalfharp]

Well, that kit was pretty much a loose sketch, so not much to miss, but I was just musing. I mean, Switzerland *should* have an economic focus, right?

Indeed, the Swiss bank must be a part of it if we are talking about Switzerland. If I am proposing, maybe something like "Every bank in other known civ increases Swiss GPT"?

I would argue for such a Civilization to be created if non-warmongering strategies are actually efficient, but the inability to declare even protectorate wars or conquer other cities is a such huge handicap in Civ 6 that I'm afraid no amount of unique ability consistent with what the game has implemented is going to make up for that limitation.

I suggest quite the opposite.

Although actively declare war and conquer city sounds difficult, especially when you seek a military confront to solve your problems, being declared war is still possible.

We can add a auto-defensive pact with your patronized city-states/allies that can be achieved by some other means,
e.g. a common religion forces you ally with a civ/city states.

This can still allow you to protect your interests.
What I am trying to say is, you can design the kit to balance everything, or even bend some rules to fit the kit.
It is always possible as long as you keep the mind open.

 

[Phrozen]

Here is my shot at a Swiss Civ.

Swiss Confederation. The Swiss are unable to capture enemy cities or declare war except a war for reclaiming their own cities. When war is declared on the Swiss each Swiss city produces one free melee unit. When the Swiss become Suzerain of a city state they gain half that city states faith/science/gold/culture/production generation as well the suzerain bonus depending on the type of city state.

Unique Unit: Swiss Pike. Available at Mercenaries. Cheap to buy with gold. If moved into other players territory that the Swiss are not at war with the unit becomes that players unit for 15 turns and the Swiss get a lump sum of 150 gold.

Unique Building: Swiss Bank. Cheaper to build than a regular bank. Gets +.5 GPT for every Great Person expended globally.

Leader: Henri Guisan

Leader Unique Ability: Reduit National. When war is declared on the Swiss: Swiss units gain +5 combat bonus on hills, ignore ZOC on hills, and gain an additional +5 defense bonus if next to a mountain.

Invade the Swiss at your own peril!

 

[Kyro]

Indeed, the Swiss bank must be a part of it if we are talking about Switzerland. If I am proposing, maybe something like "Every bank in other known civ increases Swiss GPT"?



I suggest quite the opposite.

Although actively declare war and conquer city sounds difficult, especially when you seek a military confront to solve your problems, being declared war is still possible.

We can add a auto-defensive pact with your patronized city-states/allies that can be achieved by some other means,
e.g. a common religion forces you ally with a civ/city states.

This can still allow you to protect your interests.
What I am trying to say is, you can design the kit to balance everything, or even bend some rules to fit the kit.
It is always possible as long as you keep the mind open.

Even if you could protect your city state allies, missing out on free cities and districts from conquering is such a huge handicap you will need to make that Civilization get free cities and districts some other way to make up for it.

How would you propose that a Civilization who can't conquer be on par with a Civilization that does?

The way I see it the change will have to be so drastic the developers simply won't do it.

 

[Guandao]

I think Switzerland has several options for rather unique abilities and play style, that's why I want it. I'm not Swiss by the way.

Oh REALLY!? You're not Swiss!!!!

So you're just a non-Swiss living and working in Switzerland?

 

[Morningcalm]

Oh REALLY!? You're not Swiss!!!!

So you're just a non-Swiss living and working in Switzerland?

I mean, I'm a non-Swiss living and working in Switzerland; it's not *that* unusual. XD

 

[Guandao]

I mean, I'm a non-Swiss living and working in Switzerland; it's not *that* unusual. XD

It's just that Siptah seemed "European" to me by the way he types. I thought maybe he was ethnically Swiss like my former High School French teacher (who's originally from Fribourg).
Maybe "ethnically Swiss" isn't the right word, since there are at least four different languages spoken in Switzerland.

 

[halfhalfharp]

Here is my shot at a Swiss Civ.

Swiss Confederation. The Swiss are unable to capture enemy cities or declare war except a war for reclaiming their own cities. When war is declared on the Swiss each Swiss city produces one free melee unit. When the Swiss become Suzerain of a city state they gain half that city states faith/science/gold/culture/production generation as well the suzerain bonus depending on the type of city state.

Unique Unit: Swiss Pike. Available at Mercenaries. Cheap to buy with gold. If moved into other players territory that the Swiss are not at war with the unit becomes that players unit for 15 turns and the Swiss get a lump sum of 150 gold.

Unique Building: Swiss Bank. Cheaper to build than a regular bank. Gets +.5 GPT for every Great Person expended globally.

Leader: Henri Guisan

Leader Unique Ability: Reduit National. When war is declared on the Swiss: Swiss units gain +5 combat bonus on hills, ignore ZOC on hills, and gain an additional +5 defense bonus if next to a mountain.

Invade the Swiss at your own peril!

Oh this is a good one. Well balanced and all wealthy. The leader ability is a well-noted reference to their terrain advantage that stops many powers from rushing in.
Though... I expect it can lean more to one of the other victory routes.
You know, being rich cannot really give you science/faith/tourism as money is not really that useful in Civ 6.
It sounds nice anyway.

 

[Turrdy]

It's just that Siptah seemed "European" to me by the way he types. I thought maybe he was ethnically Swiss like my former High School French teacher (who's originally from Fribourg).
Maybe "ethnically Swiss" isn't the right word, since there are at least four different languages spoken in Switzerland.

well, 2 million people living in switzerland are not swiss. that's 1/4 of the whole population!

 

[Draco84]

What if this civ could not declare war, and also can not capture cities (except capitals).

You may do the following for captured cities:
raze (no warmonger penalty)
liberate

I'm not sure who the civ would make sense with this ability.

 

[Greywulf]

A player may choose to never declare war no matter which civ/leader they play as, and it wouldn't make sense for a player to be unable to declare war ever in a game of Civilization. It's not like any of the civs are incapable of war, even if they are focused on peace and avoid war as much as possible.

They could provide more benefits to a particular civ for not being at war, or more penalties for declaring war, which would discourage the player from doing so. Also, they can program that civ as an AI to be far less likely to declare war, and to be more focused on diplomacy...Could even be part of their agenda. Surely this would be sufficient enough for this idea of a civ that avoids war.