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Creating Every Possible Civ that Can Fit into Civ VI

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by clapyourhands, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. clapyourhands

    clapyourhands Chieftain

    Jul 16, 2017
    Mathematically speaking, there are ~20 colors that the game currently utilizes to distinguish civs from one another. One (black) is reserved for city-states when used as a background, and two others (navy blue and dark teal) are somewhat hard to distinguish from one another if they share the same icon color. This leaves 19 color options for the icon, and 18 for the background, for a grand total of 342 possible combinations. Well, 341 once you discount barbarians. At a rate of 1 alt leader for every 8 civs, that also meant about 30 new alt leaders, leaving 311 new civs (it ended up being 309 new civs with 32 new alt leaders). So of course I thought, "309 civs? I've seen far more ideas than that on this forum, we could easily fill out this set with room to spare!" And then sought to start filling it out, with icons. Full-blown abilities and the like would have even more insanity than this was. Civs that already have a popular mod for them just have the name of the mod creator in place of the icon so as to not re-invent the wheel, but I also didn't want to use the icons without permission either. Feel free to check out the mods if you want to see those specific icons.

    Spoiler Icon Table :

    Things I've learned from this:

    1. I was wrong, 309 is far too many. I hit the point of "I would be content if these were all the civs to ever be included in the franchise" somewhere a little after #100, thought I started grasping for straws at around ~#175, and really started grasping for straws around ~#250. I started creating lists of potential "if I run out of ideas civs" as I did my research, then ended up exhausting all of those as well and then some.

    2. With that said, there were far more than 350 polities that could make interesting civs. The bigger issue was where to draw the line between polities that morphed into or were conquered by another, especially when from a modern viewpoint they're viewed in continuity. Things get even more complicated when you consider states of semi-independence, like vassals that were left to their own devices or intra-polities that retained autonomy for centuries but were never independent. A lot of the polities I ended up splitting into their own civs versus keeping as a cohesive, era-spanning one ended up being nearly arbitrary.

    3. As a corollary to the above, the civs that had priority for alternate leaders were 1) vanilla civs, and 2) civs that represented either long periods of time or multiple different polities that were not split into their own civs. So the Mongols didn't get two leaders since many other khanates get their own representation, but Siam does because Ayutthaya and modern-era Siam are not given their own civs. It's not perfect, but with the allocated 30ish alt leader spots I tried to give each civ only 2 leaders at most.

    4. Technically speaking there are hundreds of people groups and indigenous tribes that were left out. However, there's only so much you can do to distinguish dozens of hunter-gatherer cultures from each other with 4 uniques per civ. I elected to give each region of North America at least one if not two NA groups, even splitting some regions into subregions (Alaska, Pacific NA, coastal CA, inland CA, Southwest, Baja, etc...), each region of Australia an Aborigine group, and other continents representation of either their largest or most well-known groups.

    5. As for modern nations, most regions have a modern representative, but similar to the last point there is only so much you can do gamewise to distinguish them. I tried to choose options that were either popular in mods, had something that might be interesting about them mechanically, or would cover a bit of the map that for whatever reason had no civ representing it. As a side note, if you were to color in a map with territorial ranges of each civ, there would be virtually no empty spots save for Antarctica, and even then that would be filled if you considered modern claims.

    6. Many color combinations are, to be frank, quite ugly. There's nothing that can be done about this fact, though, as by the constraints of the proposal there must be a civ for every color combination, regardless of clashing. Additionally, some color combos are very harsh on the eyes or illegible in their usual tone and required either lightening or darkening in order to alleviate this while still staying in the range of their name.

    7. Also color related, it is frankly impossible for every civ to have an ideal color combination in the absence of a jersey system. Of course this is a problem Firaxis has noted as the very reason the system was necessary, but it became painfully clear throughout this process. Once the reds/blues/yellows/whites/ started filling up, I started settling for maroon or pink for red; tan or brown for yellow; purple or teal for blue. Then those started running out of room, and around icon ~200 the color choices became near-meaningless. They tried to stay somewhat faithful if possible, but honestly no culture in their right mind would want Purple/Orange-Brown as their national colors unless its capital was Halloweentown (sorry, Palmyra).

    8. In keeping with the Civ VI design philosophy the icons are as simple as possible, with a leaning towards plant and animal motifs. To keep things distinct I tried to keep lions, dragons, and eagles to a minimum (ie: for Austria I went for the edelweiss instead). For a specific outlier, the dragon was far too iconic for Bhutan, but I was unable to simplify it for the icon; if it were to appear in Civ VI as a city-state or the like, I'd expect a still-full-bodied, but stylized version; I just don't have the skill to draw it that way.

    You could squeeze in maybe ~25 more civs/leaders if you separate navy blue from regular blue and utilize the combos with black that the CS's don't already use, and maybe a few more by separating the hues of gray (though the light grays are hard to read with the light colors, and the same for the dark grays and dark colors). But honestly there isn't much to represent other than, as I said before, various indigenous groupings and ancient cultures.

    Spoiler Icon Origins :

    Switzerland: Not mine
    Denmark: From the Vikings scenario
    Soviet Union: Flag
    Spain: NA
    Moldavia: Coat of arms
    Albania: Coat of arms
    Mexico: From Mexico City CS
    Moor: From the Black Plague scenario
    Nepal: Flag
    Korea: NA
    Maori: NA
    Indonesia: NA
    Morocco (Alt): Flag
    Spain (Alt): NA
    England: NA
    Yugoslavia: Coat of arms
    Murri: From the Outback Tycoon scenario (New South Wales, it's a kookaburra)
    Barbarians: NA

    Mongolia: NA
    Armenia: Not mine
    Chola: From the Nirvana scenario
    Colombia: Condor
    Normandy: Not mine
    Mali: NA
    Portugal: Rooster
    Morocco: Flag
    Ragusa: Coat of arms
    Greece (Alt): NA
    America (Alt): NA
    Acadia: Flag of Acadiana
    Hawaii (Alt): Hibiscus
    Burgundy: From the Yonne coat of arms
    Malta: Coat
    Goth: From a gothic brooch
    Portugal (Alt): Rooster
    Hun: Civ V

    Genoa: Genoa lighthouse
    Haida: Salmon/whale
    France (Alt): NA
    Navarre: Coat of arms
    Aram: Modern flag
    Latin: Coat of arms
    Amis: Bamboo
    Tatar: Modern flag
    Faroe: Ram
    Sicily: Wheat triskelion
    Powhatan: Squash/pumpkin
    Comanche: Modern flag
    Hawaii: Hibiscus
    Byzantium (Alt): Labarum
    England (Alt): NA
    Poland: NA
    Etruria: Pendant motif
    Beothuk: Iron tool design

    Wales: From Cardiff CS
    Scythia: NA
    Poland (Alt): NA
    Tongva: Mission bell
    Navajo: Modern flag
    Karenni: Modern flag
    Yaqui: Flag
    Rwanda: Coat of arms
    Bosnia: Coat of arms
    Wabanaki: Dreamcatcher
    Talamanca: Toucan
    Assam: Figurine
    Sassanid: Not mine
    Minoa: Motif from 'Prince of Lilies'
    Deseret: Beehive
    Philistine: Fly
    Nubia: NA
    Iroquois: Four Direction symbol

    Kongo: NA
    Pueblo: Zia
    Kongo (Alt): NA
    Siam: Not mine
    Serbia: Double-headed eagle
    Brunei: National emblem
    Jamaica: Pineapple
    Brazil (Alt): NA
    South Africa: Coat of arms
    Xiongnu: 'Stag with eaglehead' figurine
    Kievan Rus: National emblem
    China (Alt): NA
    Muisca: Parrot
    Khotan: Silk butterfly
    Laos: White parasol
    Russia (Alt): NA
    Nubia (Alt): NA
    Russia: NA

    Anangu: Uluru
    Songhai: Not mine
    Bahrain: Flag
    Kyrgyz: Flag
    Sri Lanka: Flag
    Bhutan: Flag
    Ireland: From Armagh CS
    Cherokee: Modern flag
    Netherlands: NA
    Miskito: Coat of arms
    Netherlands (Alt): NA
    Madagascar: Merina Kingdom flag
    Maratha: Figurine
    Pala: From the Nirvana scenario
    Aragon: Coat of arms
    Novgorod: Stag
    Noongar: Snake design
    Belgium: From Brussels CS

    Canton: Flag of Guangzhou
    Italy: Not mine
    Pontus: Unknown, from Total War
    Siam (Alt): Not mine
    Cornwall: From Duke of Cornwall flag, simplified
    Sikh: From religious symbol
    Arabia: NA
    Chumash: From Chumash rock art
    Khmer: NA
    Uzbek: Cotton
    Funj: Branding mark
    Phyrgia: Phyrgian art
    Champa: Plumeria
    Muscogee: Eye-in-hand symbol
    Arevaci: Relic
    Sao: Simplification of horse-riding figure
    Hyksos: Art motif
    Dene: Bear paw

    Light Green
    Mossi: Mossi antelope mask
    Numidia/Berber: Not mine
    Tunis: Tunis Coat of arms
    Zulu: NA
    Brazil: NA
    Oman: From Muscat CS
    Zapotec: Relic
    Tarascan: Glyph
    Tupi: Feather
    Sami: Sami sun symbol
    Azerbaijan: National emblem
    Lesotho: Flag
    Guanche: Figurine
    Burundi: Flag
    Lombard: Flag
    Haiti: Coat of arms
    Caral: Caral site pattern
    Zimbabwe: Zimbabwe bird

    Dark Green
    Hungary: NA
    Yucatan: Yucca
    Lithuania: Horse from coat of arms
    Benin: Leopard mask
    Australia: NA
    Ethiopia: Not mine
    Arabia (Alt): NA
    Hausa: Hausa people emblem
    Livonia: From the Poland scenario
    Chuvash: Flag
    Iceni: Triskelion
    Olmec: Olmec head
    Nakh: Nakh carpet pattern
    New Zealand: Kiwi
    China: NA
    Abkhazia: Flag
    Caddo: Modern flag
    Larrakia: Modern flag

    Norway: NA
    Castile: From the Black Death scenario
    Iceland: Not mine
    France: NA
    Philippines (Alt): Not mine
    Sumeria: NA
    Montenegro: Coat of arms
    Burma: Not mine
    Cree: NA
    Mapuche: NA
    Ghaznavid: From the Nirvana Scenario
    Greenland: Coat of arms
    Iga: Shuriken
    Kimberley: Baobab
    America: NA
    Khazar: Proposed modern flag
    Cuba: Phyrgian cap on coat of arms
    Prussia: Eagle

    Light Blue
    Chile: Flag
    Ainu: Flag
    Japan (Alt): NA
    Argentina: From Buenos Aires CS
    Sweden: NA
    Boer: Wagon
    Tuva: Kyzyl flag, simplified
    Burma (Alt): NA
    Nicaragua: Flag
    Sweden (Alt): NA
    Ajuran: Gazelle horns
    Mari: Mari lion
    Harappa: Harappa script
    Seulucid: Not mine
    Greece: NA
    Finland: Coat of arms
    Modoc: Wapato leaf
    Amalfi: Amalfi lemon

    Kazakh: Kazakhstan flag
    Aztec: NA
    Panama: Coat of arms
    Yupik: Yupik mask
    Philippines: NA
    Ethiopia (Alt): NA
    Galicia: Modern flag
    Samoa: Crux
    Yakut: Proposed modern flag
    Rapa Nui: From Rapa Nui CS
    Metis: Canadian Metis flag
    Kalinago: Seashell
    Taino: Not mine
    India (Alt): NA
    Mercia: White wyvern
    Sibir: Siberian Tatar flag
    Calusa: Alligator
    Tlingit: Totem head

    Dark Teal
    Moravia: Coat of arms
    Vietnam: Chim Lac
    Swahili: Not mine
    Egypt: NA
    Gaul: Not mine
    Arakan: Rakhine state seal
    Akkad: Not mine
    Maya (Alt): From Palenque CS
    Maya: From Palenque CS
    Vietnam (Alt): Chim Lac
    Pandya: Two fish symbol
    Babylon: From Babylon CS
    Mughal: Ashoka chakra
    Egypt (Alt): NA
    Taiwan: Flag
    Bavaria: Coat of arms
    Cucuteni: Art motif
    Oyo: Yoruba Opon Ifa board

    Persia: NA
    Sardinia: Coat of arms
    Persia (Alt): NA
    Guarani: Modern flag
    Buganda: Coat of arms
    Tahiti: French Polynesia flag
    Cuman: Coat of arms
    Kenya: Flag
    Costa Rica: Tree frog
    Parthia: Assur temple art
    Hiva: Hiva mask
    Tonga: Tonga headwear
    Fuegian: Sea lion
    Byzantium: Labarum
    Angola: Angola sun
    Kunin: From Outback scenario (wombat)
    Bactria: From Hephthalite tamga
    Chimu: Fabric pattern

    Frisia: Flag
    Korea (Alt): NA
    Kuninda: Triratna, on coins
    Khitan: Pagoda of Tianning Temple
    Rome: NA
    Jimma: Oromo flag
    Saba: Sabaean inscription
    Nri: Palm frond
    Rome (Alt): NA
    Sulu: Flag, simplified
    Phoenicia: NA
    India: NA
    Iroquois (Alt): Modern flag
    Malaysia: Not mine
    Iroquois: Modern flag
    Mycenae: Mycenaean octopus
    Palmyra: Gazelle
    Ryuku: National emblem

    Canada: NA
    Japan: NA
    Genoa: Coat of arms
    Austria: Edelweiss
    Papal States: Coat of arms
    Georgia: NA
    Luba: Figurine
    Saudi: Flag
    Ottoman: NA
    Scotland: NA
    Seleucid: Not mine
    Inuit: Inuksuk
    Texas: Bull with lone star
    Venice: Venetian lion
    Assyria: Not mine
    Brittany: Flag
    California: Bear
    Botswana: Zebra

    Bulgaria: From Preslav CS
    Timurid: Flag
    Romania: Eagle
    Manchuria: Imperial Seal
    Bohemia: Coat of arms (lion tails)
    Manx: Coat of arms
    Ottoman (Alt): NA
    Afghanistan: From Kabul CS
    Israel: Star of David
    Uyghur: Emblem, simplified
    Dakehl: Beaver
    Tibet: Not mine
    Frank: From Black Plague scenario
    Vandal: Unknown, from Total War
    Pirate: Jolly Roger
    Elam: Dove relic
    German: NA

    Ashanti: From Kumasi CS
    Nabatea: From design on tomb
    Palawa: Tasmanian devil
    Epirus: Unknown, from Total War
    Inca: NA
    Northumbria: Coat of arms
    Hittite: From Hattusa CS
    Toltec: Modern flag
    Bornu: Kanem flag
    Tehuelche: Modern flag
    Illyria: Flag
    Shoshone: Civ V
    Lydia: Coin face
    Punt: Proposed hut design
    Mississippi: From Cahokia CS
    Inca (Alt): NA
    Germany (Alt): NA
    Blackfoot: Buffalo

    Conclusion: In terms of visual clarity the game can support over 300 distinct civs. For the sake of quality, it really shouldn't get anywhere near that.
    Meluhhan, raen, Bradypus and 7 others like this.
  2. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Chieftain

    Sep 27, 2017
    This really is impressive, I probably would've struggled with getting near 300 different civ icons and color combinations! As you've mentioned I'm sure you've gotten close to 400 if you included some more like Choctaw and Dahomey but I certainly couldn't blame you for not doing so since you've done more than enough as it is! Thanks for all the hard work and for the explanations behind each icon, its pretty helpful!

    Also, thanks for teaching me some new things. I didn't think that the rooster was a popular symbol for Portugal or that there is a proposed new Yakut flag.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
    679x and Jkchart like this.
  3. Jkchart

    Jkchart Chieftain

    Jul 13, 2016
    So Firaxis has their work cut out from them!

    Seriously though - I hope they see this and take some inspiration from this for some cool-new choices for any they have yet to decide on (either for DLC or a 3rd Xpack). This is amazing.
  4. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

    Jan 9, 2016
  5. 679x

    679x Chieftain

    Mar 30, 2017
    Wow, that looks like it took a long time to do. Impressive indeed!
  6. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

    Jan 30, 2018
    Seems a very time-consuming way of saying the Romani shouldn't be in the game... ;)

    Seriously though, quite impressive. You aren't kidding about grasping at straws haha. I actually think that we will ultimately have a higher alternate leader ratio than what currently exists, given how easily developed and obvious an alt leaders pack seems. But overall, even sixty civs seems an extremely generous estimate, and this only makes it more clear how a rough admissions line needs to be drawn, and past a certain point the choices between equivalents just don't seem worth the resources.

    Also, the devs need to change Indonesia's colors. The Maori are literally right there next to them. On the map.
  7. Bradypus

    Bradypus Chieftain

    Feb 26, 2019
    Finally there's hope. I hope the developers find some inspiration here. Many of these civs I have never heard of before.

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