Creating wastelands & unsettled area

[Willgar]

Was wondering if there are any map scripts, game options or mods that create unsettled areas on the map. For example large expanses of desert or jungle that contain no resources?

I ask becuase every game i play (against the AI) seems to turn into a rush to claim every scrap of land. Followed by border conflicts. The tactical/strategy element of massing troops and setting off to war in distant lands is rare as every nation is squashed up next to each other.

I use only pangea maps as the AI does not handle other map types well - in fact, i have never seen a succesfull AI seaborne invasion.

Gratefull for any ideas or suggestions....

 

[Mailbox]

I believe the team was planning on eventually adding this but it would require a lot of AI work so that the AI wasn't completely ruined by the additions. In the XML, there are sections for terrain impassables so it wouldn't be too hard to add such terrains.

 

[Willgar]

Is related to the AI or is it just the map? Will the AI settle in a section of map with no additional resources like a 12x12 section of tundra, desert or plains with no access to fresh water?

 

[Morni]

Is related to the AI or is it just the map? Will the AI settle in a section of map with no additional resources like a 12x12 section of tundra, desert or plains with no access to fresh water?

At some point it probably will, and it probably won't vitalize it either.

 

[A_Hamster]

Was wondering if there are any map scripts, game options or mods that create unsettled areas on the map. For example large expanses of desert or jungle that contain no resources?

Not that I know of. However, a temporary solution would be to use Custom Game, select a map size one step up from what you'd normally play, and reduce the number of AI civs to what is typical for the smaller map size. (e.g. A standard size map has six positions, including your own. A large map has 8 places.) This will give all civs more elbow room, and the empty spaces will sprout barb cities. Now it won't give you the wastelands you want, but it will give you distance.

Also, not all map scripts generate the same size map. For instance, Terra generates a larger than normal "Standard" size map to allow for the New World and so players are forced to explore the seas. Similarly, Inland Sea has slightly larger map sizes. Don't remember exactly were I read this: it was either in the main Civ forum, or a strategy article in the Civ Academy. Anyway, playing a Large Inland Sea map with fewer civs will give you lots of empty space (and barbarian breeding grounds!)

 

[Halancar]

The creation map script (available there) is also good to create areas that remain unsettled, usually because they are only accessible by sea.

 

[Bitwise]

Creation and Perfect World also are nice since I've seen vast deserts and tundra which are unsuitable for most civs and frequently stay open for awhile.

 

[Alzara]

Yeah perfect world is great for this!

Al

 

[Amerigo Arturo]

Use the No Settlers option. The only new cities that will enter the game will be barbarian ones, you will have wilderness most, if not all of the game.

 

[Blackmantle]

Creation Mapscript on large or huge (especially huge) with a standart ammount of civs and wildlands + barbarian world will give plenty of Barbs and unsettled valleys. Just what you described even though the desert and jungle valleys still contain resources. (You have to handle the marine part of the game though if you play creation. Something not everyone likes... If you don't hate that part creation is greath.)
The games take way longer then though. (creation allready delays things quite tangiably on normal map sizes but on large and huge each game feels like an epic.)
This one also helps the AI since it reduces its expansion-frenzy a bit.


And if you really want some serious struggle against wildlife and barbs try Marnoks explorable Lairs and Villages (found in the following thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=272494).
Sadly AI is to weak to cope with that modmod right now so expect them to fall one by one quite fastly. The Monsters will make more than up for it anyways so not that big a loss right now until the AI is done in a good way.
Oh and bring some Archers (best with high city-defender and Drill.). In that Modmod they are indeed worth it, as is drill... (unlike in regular FFH2)
No warranty on surviving that though.

 

[Willgar]

Thank you for all the usefull suggestions I think i will try a no settlers option and see how that plays out. I have downloaded the map scripts as well and will have a little play with thoes as well.

 

[JanusTalaiini]

This is something that's always annoyed me, too. I like the idea of not having every square inch of land colonized. I either do the "no settlers" thing (and a few turns into the game open up the worldbuilder and dole about five settlers each or something) or use the "advanced start" option with about 4000-5000 points to allocate.

The only problem is that, eventually, barb cities will fill in the open space, and they get conquered, so in the end you still end up with everything covered, unless you turn off barbs.

 

[Amerigo Arturo]

I do no settlers, aggressive ai, no city razing, barbarian world, raging barbarians, advanced start, but only 720 points on a huge map. Those might not be the right names, but I think you got the idea. Most Civs start with 1-3 cities and late in the game, the big civs have only 15 and there is still some wilderness. Cities tend to be a lot more spread out.

 

[JanusTalaiini]

Ooooh, that sounds fun! I'm gonna try a game like that.

 

[Mailbox]

By messing with this code in the Handicap file

<iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianCity>110</iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianCity>
<iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed>25</iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed>
<iBarbarianCityCreationTurnsElapsed>30</iBarbarianCityCreationTurnsElapsed>

I believe you can remove barbarian cities from the game. I think that setting them all to -1 will remove barbarian cities from the game.

 

[Willgar]

Played a no settlers game with Barbarian world and it didnt work out as well as i hoped. Some rival civs were still stuck with only 1 city - 300 turns into the game. A quick look at the map in world builder and it seems that too few barb cities spawned. Think i need to experiment with the various options and scripts.

Think will try Amerigo's suggestion next.

On a side note, like i think many of the fans of this mod do, i started thinking about how to create this desired mechanic. two ideas came to me and was wondering if anybody could give feedback on them:

1) Create a terrain type called scrub or maybe wasteland. This terrain is generated in large swathes across the map and settlers from Human players and other AI factions cannot found a city on it.This terrain provides 1food, 1hammer and cannot have any improvements untill it is vitalised. If the scrub is within the cultural zone of a faction, a worker can vitalise this wasteland into plains but very slowly.

However, barbarian settlers can found a city on this land and they receive 2food, 1hammers, 1 gold from it. Although they also cannot build any further improvements.
I think this would create buffer zones of "hostile" territory between factions and capturing these barbarian outposts would not be valuable.

2) The other mechanic i was think of is only allowing the foundation of cities within your factions cultural boundry but with a 3 square minimum between cities. (2 square for certain factions like the devillo/barbs and 4 square for kuriocates)

3) Another idea was giving settlers only at timed intervals - turn 1, 10, 25,50, 100, 150, 200, 250 etc. These intervals maybe be scaled for different factions.

4)or based on techs: Each time you reaserch a tech, there is a 25% chance you generate a settler but this seems too random. Again, this percebtage different for each rach (higher for the low tech races, lower for the high tech races)

Anyway, just armchair dreaming but fun to imagine these type of things...

 

[Blackmantle]

No settlers + Barb-World or anyway (save advanced start) will not work because (i belive, might be wrong) that barb cities start appearing only after a certain number of cities per civ on average are founded / conquered (1,5 or 2 times civs at game start?).
So you absoloutely have to go advanced start + no Settlers to have barb cities start spawning. (otherwise only the Barb starting Cities from barb world will be there until some of them at least are taken...)

And after trying creation you will see that this is just what you want to have / describe. Without any code-juggling and change to the mechanics involved. (if the map doesn't break. Which it still does about one times in ten sadly. But restart isn't all that difficult and time consuming.)

Oh and in Marnoks explorable Lairs mod Settlers can be gained in tribal villages if i remember correctly. So no-settlers works there as well. (still perhaps not a good idea to restrict everyone to just one cite and at least advanced Start reccomended. Otherwise AI Civs will vanish to fast because of the rampaging monsters everywhere.)

 

[JayThomas]

No settlers + Barb-World or anyway (save advanced start) will not work because (i belive, might be wrong) that barb cities start appearing only after a certain number of cities per civ on average are founded / conquered (1,5 or 2 times civs at game start?).

That's what I thought. My last luchuirp game was a lagre, perfect world, raging barbs and barb world. When things got started, My first settler was right next to barb city culter zone. I could see another one just SE of the position.

Needless to say, I made tracks away from that scene, then rushed the 3 stooges and never a a problem. (didn't need settlers for a while either.

So I don't know the actual criteria for when barb cities appear.

 

[Willgar]

Oh and in Marnoks explorable Lairs mod Settlers can be gained in tribal villages if i remember correctly. So no-settlers works there as well. (still perhaps not a good idea to restrict everyone to just one cite and at least advanced Start reccomended. Otherwise AI Civs will vanish to fast because of the rampaging monsters everywhere.)

Thanks for that tip Blackmantle - I downloaded Marnoks modmod and up to turn 200 at the momemnt. It's a fantastic little modmod! I never use advanced start normally and i didnt in this game but i think it is needed.

Hippus just got overrun at turn 190 and wiped out. Went to check what had killed them and my scouting party got killed by a barbarian minotaur (combat 5) and a wraith...

Using this mod, i certainly have "wildlands" seperating the factions - i just hope that my rivals can last long enough for me to conquerer them.

 

[Marksman77]

A bit late answer, but I found that highlands or great plains combined with less than standard number of AIs give plenty of space between empires. Much more than pangea.