[R&F] Cree UU Okihtcitaw - Any use for it?

[CPWimmer]

With that free promotion, they are useful for getting through that thick band of jungle/rain-forest if you happen to get an equatorial start.

However, they don't really make me want to build more of them than my normal 1 or 2 scouts. In many cases I'd rather have the warriors for future swordsmen, or just stick to my mostly slinger army as normal.

 

[CPWimmer]

Not really a negative one. It can provide 4 era score when you find yourself 1~4 points short to a golden age. Unlike Aztec Eagle Warriors or Roman Legions, this UU does not have other usages and do not happen to appear on an upgrade line or so, so if you already have enough points you can save this 4 points for the next era or so. It also does not cost much. So you can consider it a very flexible 4 era points. (In Contrary, Samurais, Berserkers, etc's era points are costly.)

I love this. The straight to the point, game mechanics of it all. 40 production for 4 era score. I assume that once you build your one and only Okihtcitaw you stick it somewhere as a garrison for the normal mechanical benefits you can derive from that, or do you proceed to actually scout the map with it?

 

[OneMoreTurnPerTile]

I'm still on my first play with the Cree, but I have some thoughts on thisUU. Making it your first build will all but guarantee a golden age because of the UU era score and the improved scouting - more goody guys, more likely to meet other civs, more likely to find a natural wonder first, etc. However, doing so made it much more difficult to get a good era score for medieval and even though I ended up with 3, original build + huts, I found that I routinely overestimated their strength and got them into bad position with barbs. With more practice, their maybe more useful as escorts for traders and early settlers.

 

[Morningcalm]

Interesting. They're not strong enough (in my hands) to take out AI cities without Slinger/Archer support. Maybe that's because of AI combat bonuses (or my own tactical inefficiencies). I haven't tried them on their own against a City State. And against humans, I suppose their extra movement could make for a faster rush. I find it hard to imagine getting enough of them built fast enough to take someone down unless they've completed ignored building a defence force, but I haven't played multiplayer, so not sure what the standard opening gambits are.

I should add that I did use archers! It helped that there was no encampment to overrun, just walls and units. Also, I was suzerain of Kabul, which gives extra XP when I attacked.

 

[acluewithout]

The Cree should start with a free scout in addition to their warrior. It’s not about needing to buff them; it would just be fun and really distinctive.

Do scouts really not benefit from Agoge? That’s a bit rubbish. I guess Scouts are usually pretty cheap though...

 

[Trengilly]

The Cree should start with a free scout in addition to their warrior

The Cree are pretty powerful already -- they should start with a scout INSTEAD of the starting warrior. But then I guess that would mess up the ERA points for building your first unique unit. Or just make it the same price as a regular scout. There was really no need to make it so expensive.

 

[Peserwin]

They can be incredible. You basically need just one promotion to be superscouts if you go for Terracotta Army. Yeah, I build them!

 

[Mojo85]

The production cost should be lower but a lot of people are upset a scout isn’t as strong as a warrior. If it were and had the movement speed then it would be way overpowered

 

[Art Morte]

The free promotion is nice, especially in larger maps. The extra strength is almost useless, though.

 

[Zike]

I really don't see the point.

In multiplayer theyre a flat out downgrade because they cost more production meaning other people get their scouts out faster.

In single player Diety I tend not to build many/any scouts anymore, getting the Archery boost and maybe a second warrior to kill barbs (with +7 promotion after a few hits) is far too important. Even more so with the cancer unit every turn spam RAF added.

The first promotion level is also by far the easiest to get. I mean on online speed its 2 attacks with a warrior for example, on standard its not much more. Afterwards barb xp goes down to only 1.

Maybe could chase down barb scouts with them before they alert camp? Sounds useful if it works.

 

[Grothee1]

If they were able to benefit from the oligarchy buffs they would be far more useful. As it is even if you manage to get the +20 strength promotion they will be quickly outmatched by promoted and/or oligarchy buffed swordsmen.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

If they were able to benefit from the oligarchy buffs they would be far more useful. As it is even if you manage to get the +20 strength promotion they will be quickly outmatched by promoted and/or oligarchy buffed swordsmen.

I just think that if people want to boost them, we should stop trying to make them offensive rush military units and instead buff them to be better scouts (as they're supposed to be). Cree's already good enough. Extra sight, extra movement, cheaper, just an overall buff to the scout card would help.

 

[Dustbrother]

They can be incredible. You basically need just one promotion to be superscouts if you go for Terracotta Army. Yeah, I build them!

This is pretty interesting. I wonder how powerful they become when massed and rushing for Terracotta army.

I'm on my first play through with cree on deity. I always rate mobility pretty highly on deity and they are VERY mobile. Being able to redeploy across your empire in about two turns is golden. Also they are ninja barb scout blockers. They don't have a lot of punch but you do have a lot of map control. When fighting early game you're almost never going to lose them because they can disappear into woods when damaged. In my current game where I'm boxed in by two aggressive sims with a hostile city state they're making warriors look like static defense.

 

[Frostburn]

In terms of usefulness, It's somewhere between a War cart and a U-Boat

 

[Pythakoreas]

By far their best utility is IMO...

It comes at Ancient along with Mekewap. Era score for both and better combat strength means possibly more ruins will be uncovered without your scout dying. Better chance at Golden Age by Classical.

 

[Grothee1]

I just think that if people want to boost them, we should stop trying to make them offensive rush military units and instead buff them to be better scouts (as they're supposed to be). Cree's already good enough. Extra sight, extra movement, cheaper, just an overall buff to the scout card would help.

It would need to be worth the extra production cost as an extra turn or two of scouting time is incredibly valuable.

 

[Rayyy]

Played my first R&F game as Poundmaker on deity and my rush of UUs went very well... With the policy card doubling the xp and the free promotion it's pretty easy to farm xp stalling in the apropriatte terrain around enemies cities, attacking and retreating w/ guerrilla promotion until you get Ambush and Oligarchy. Conquered Indonesia (5 cities) pretty quick, only had to handle warriors and archers, w/o having any ranged units to help. Once you get Ambush and Oligarchy you can face the next tier of units up to knights (bait and run). Was able to conquer Norway (50+ city strength) facing berserkers and knights. It's doable but requires more patience. Later was able to upgrade and build corps/army out of them keeping it very useful until late game. No complains about the UU, enjoyed a lot.

 

[Frostburn]

I think they should lower the cost to that of a normal scout and they would be perfectly balanced as a Unique Unit

 

[Pietato]

Played my first R&F game as Poundmaker on deity and my rush of UUs went very well... With the policy card doubling the xp and the free promotion it's pretty easy to farm xp stalling in the apropriatte terrain around enemies cities, attacking and retreating w/ guerrilla promotion until you get Ambush and Oligarchy. Conquered Indonesia (5 cities) pretty quick, only had to handle warriors and archers, w/o having any ranged units to help. Once you get Ambush and Oligarchy you can face the next tier of units up to knights (bait and run). Was able to conquer Norway (50+ city strength) facing berserkers and knights. It's doable but requires more patience. Later was able to upgrade and build corps/army out of them keeping it very useful until late game. No complains about the UU, enjoyed a lot.

So they do benefit from Oligarchy?

 

[godotnut]

Too weak, really? I just played two games in a row on Emperor where they easily took out my nearest neighbor, leaving me their cities and land. They felt OP.

Three of them and a warrior can easily take out your nearest neighbor, using a rush strategy. That promotion is a free heal, which is quite powerful early on.