Criticism & Suggestions Appreciated

[MikeEdward]

Don't get me wrong. I have won on Prince before.

But I would say 50% of my starts end up like this one. After my iron mine got annexed by a neighboring city as a result of cultural influence, I threw my hands up.

I love Civ. I have been playing for 10 years, and I do read this forum often.

I would appreciate some tips and best practices on how I can avoid getting winding up in this hopeless spot at year 1300 BC.

Thank you.

 

[carl corey]

Well, I can't see your save right now, but:
- is your neighbour creative? If yes, you should have expected his borders to expand faster. That means, a very early attack on him, especially if he can take your only Iron/Copper/Horse resource. If not, than you don't need to worry that much. But you still have to attack him.
- try building Stonehenge. It's very doable on Prince (I'm playing at this level too) and it gives you a nice cultural boost. If you have a religion, spread it to the outer cities. You might also want to build a Library in them, even if it won't help much with research, since Libraries also give you culture.
- don't build cities near capitals, or religious holy cities. They will most certainly out-culture you no matter what you do. On the other hand, if you can reach a holy city, take it! Same with the capital, though my experience tells me AIs will put other cities between you and their capital anyway.

I'll try to take a look at the save tonight, but I hope you'll receive other advice by then.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I would appreciate some tips and best practices on how I can avoid getting winding up in this hopeless spot at year 1300 BC.

First reaction: you wandered all over creation and settled there ?!

Second reaction: you are expansive (cheap granaries) and financial (commerce bonuses) and you don't have any cottages anywhere?

Third reaction: there seem to be an awful lot of trees lying around, suggesting that you've been building your workers and settlers by hand (stunting growth).

Fourth reaction: you lost a settler? ow.

Starting with a development plan that reflects your traits would probably be a good place to start.

 

[MikeEdward]

This is the sort of help I need.

How do you guys prevent settlers from getting eaten by animals? Do you always escort them with a warrior?

Also, do you guys usually settle within a few spaces of where your settler starts the game, or do you wander around a lot before you set up your first city? If I wander a lot, I'm more likely to lose the settler, and fall behind during those important early years.

Also, when you say I've been building them by hand, are you suggesting that I should instead use the worker to chop the trees and help speed production?

In this game, I was going for bronze and Iron-working early to help gain a technological advantage to build swordsman faster to help defeat a neighboor early.

 

[Rathelm]

A lot of players are fond of chopping trees to speed early production. I'm not a big fan of chopping because I like the +health bonuses from trees, but if you have a lot of health resources then no worries. I don't usually escort settlers, but what I do, do is make sure that there is a warrior already at my settlement position. You should always make sure there is no Fog of War along your path, otherwise escort.

 

[Pantastic]

How do you guys prevent settlers from getting eaten by animals? Do you always escort them with a warrior?

I preposition a warrior/archer/axeman most settlers, generally I'll build the garrison unit, then have it walk into place while the settler builds. This lets me keep an eye on the area a bit better and slows down the barb/animal spawns. By sending the garrison first, I can let my settler zip on to the spot with double moves.

In this game, I was going for bronze and Iron-working early to help gain a technological advantage to build swordsman faster to help defeat a neighboor early.

Swordsmen are not really early; generally by the time you get iron working, iron connected, and a good number of swords built, your opponents have good cultural defense or even walls. Axemen (with an occasional spear to kill chariots if you're playing WL) are much better if you have bronze you can get to, you can have a bunch of axemen rushing at them way before you could have swordsen. CR axes maybe with flanking chariots (if you have horses) make short work of archers.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

How do you guys prevent settlers from getting eaten by animals? Do you always escort them with a warrior?

Yes, or something stronger. They might not always be together (the warrior can reduce some of the risk by busting fog).

Also, do you guys usually settle within a few spaces of where your settler starts the game, or do you wander around a lot before you set up your first city?

Most maps (though not all of them) adjust the starting locations to make sure that they are fair, which usually means that the starting location is much better than what you will find near by (using the AIs definition of better); I only move about if I can see a clearly superior position, or if I'm trying to cater to a particular kind of start.

Also, when you say I've been building them by hand, are you suggesting that I should instead use the worker to chop the trees and help speed production?

Chopping trees will help, as will improving tiles. Think about your research order, and try to make sure that you have a plan for what you are building.

In this game, I was going for bronze and Iron-working early to help gain a technological advantage to build swordsman faster to help defeat a neighboor early.

You can go faster if you take the time to tie your shoes before you start running. Also, you have to be willing to surrender some of your ambitions to circumstances: fighting the map makes the game much more difficult.

 

[Moonsinger]

But I would say 50% of my starts end up like this one. After my iron mine got annexed by a neighboring city as a result of cultural influence, I threw my hands up.

Don't worry about the little thing like that! It's really no big deal and I'm sure Egypt will pay for it later.

Here is what your world look like when I took over (may be 1 or 2 turns after):

Here is what your world look like a little bits later (note: you get your iron back):

Here is what I think you should do next:
1. Mine the gold
2. Put cottages on all of those floodplains
3. Rush swordmans and throw a party on Egypt.
4. Don't forget to build 3 spearmans to guard each of your city (since I saw some chariots running around).

//edit: Just to be clear, I meant 1 spearman per city, not 3 per city. Actually, you don't even have to defend your capital.

5. The citizens of Elephantine are waiting to welcome you. They have resources that will be good for your empire.

I'm 100% sure that your game can be win at this point: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/16062/1156356800.civ4savedgame

Note: Sorry, I didn't do much. I could have managed your empire better, but since this isn't my game, I hope you understand.

PS: This game is really fun! I will have to play on this level more often. It's definitely more fun than my usual settler level.

 

[douglas_21]

If your worried about trees, and early expansion- culture, get Cathy. Practically made for chopping settlers (producing them, not cutting them with swords), she has Imp/Cre. Imperialistic for +50% settler production (30 shields not 20 from trees), and Creative for automatic border expansions!

 

[LingLinsRevenge]

MikeEdward,
Read this thread.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=170306&page=1
There is SO much to consider, and the discussing / thinking about city placement is excellent.
But, build that first city in first or second turn, as stated above. And never losing a settler! Pre position garrison, escort with chariot, pre build roads is you have extra worker turns (Suboptimal, as workers have lots to do in early game).
In fact look to capture a worker from AI. If you can get two from a rival in the early game, that civ will be crippled. The second city is very important as it is your first city where you should have full control over where to place.
Good luck
Matthew

 

[Argoth]

PS: This game is really fun! I will have to play on this level more often. It's definitely more fun than my usual settler level.

You usually play on settler?

 

[Moonsinger]

You usually play on settler?

There really isn't anything wrong with the settler level. For example, why not build an empire that can withstand the test of time and may the fastest player to generate at least 2000 gpt (gold per turn) win. It's really not as easy as it sounds.

 

[MikeEdward]

If your worried about trees, and early expansion- culture, get Cathy. Practically made for chopping settlers (producing them, not cutting them with swords), she has Imp/Cre. Imperialistic for +50% settler production (30 shields not 20 from trees), and Creative for automatic border expansions!

This is a very good point. My next couple games, I am switching to Cathy. I think it fits with my style of play better.

 

[MikeEdward]

Here is what your world look like when I took over (may be 1 or 2 turns after):

Moonsinger, how did you get York from a size 1 to a size 4 city so quickly, and how did you expand it's cultural power so that it re-gained the Iron mine?

I really appreciate your help.

 

[dalessi12]

Yeah and what the heck is that 2 tiles south of London? Is that a town on top of the silk? You must have played a bunch of turns then. And would you "plantation" over that town when you get calendar? If so why build/work it? If not, why not (because you have multiple silk?)?

 

[voek]

I can't understand why London hasn't got a mine yet with two forest hills within the fatcross. Now prob. a forest is being worked which is much more inefficient then chop the forest (and build something nice for yourself) and mine the hill(s).

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Yeah and what the heck is that 2 tiles south of London? Is that a town on top of the silk?

The graphics tend to wonk out when you put a cottage on top of a resource.

 

[Moonsinger]

Moonsinger, how did you get York from a size 1 to a size 4 city so quickly, and how did you expand it's cultural power so that it re-gained the Iron mine?

To get York from 1 to size 4, I farmed the rice while building the obelisk and the Jewish Monastery to expand its cultural power. London is still at size 4 because it spent most of the time building 2 workers. You had only 1 worker, so I built 2 more the old fashion way (no chop rush). Now that London has sheep, I'm sure it can be easily grow to size 7.

I really appreciate your help.

No problem! I'm glad I can help. You have a good game going there. Your next mission is to conquer Egypt, let's have some fun on that. That probably will be the only war that you need to fight. After that, you will have enough city and land to win the game peacefully (if you want to). Have fun and please consider to post another save around 10AD and 500 AD to show us how you are doing.

 

[Moonsinger]

I can't understand why London hasn't got a mine yet with two forest hills within the fatcross. Now prob. a forest is being worked which is much more inefficient then chop the forest (and build something nice for yourself) and mine the hill(s).

Sure, it's important to mine the forest hills, but since the city is growing, that can wait. It's more important to work the sheep and put up some cottages first. Once London grows to size 6, you can mine the forest hills and start pumping out swordmans. For some reason, I like to get as many cottages up running as soon as possible...the rest can wait.

 

[Moonsinger]

Yeah and what the heck is that 2 tiles south of London? Is that a town on top of the silk? You must have played a bunch of turns then. And would you "plantation" over that town when you get calendar? If so why build/work it? If not, why not (because you have multiple silk?)?

I love building cottage on top of resources (assuming I get multiple resources of the same type, of course) --- an instant money making machine!