Critique my space race tech order

[futurehermit]

Here is how I currently tech for space race. I try to have 15 cities before 1500 AD (asap really) and to have some nice commerce cities. I monitor diplomacy and try to avoid any further warring.

After liberalism, I go for democracy for CE civics and SoL.

Then I go steel-communism to get a heavy-lifting city set up with IW.

Then I go industrialism-rocketry to get aluminum hooked up and Apollo in my heavy lifting city.

While Apollo is building, I go for computers to get labs set up, at least in my production cities. I start specializing further heavy-lifting cities as my tech needs diminish.

Then I just tech for space parts, with fusion as the last part.

I've beelined the Space Elevator before and didn't have a lot of success tbh.

I'm thinking of trying to get a golden age triggered involving the GE from fusion, which would mean having 1-4 specialists ready in time, depending on how many golden ages I've already triggered.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm trying to win monarch/normal/standard sub-1800. I'm winning consistently right now 1875 +/- 25 years.

 

[madscientist]

Here is how I currently tech for space race. I try to have 15 cities before 1500 AD (asap really) and to have some nice commerce cities. I monitor diplomacy and try to avoid any further warring.

After liberalism, I go for democracy for CE civics and SoL.

Sounds good

Then I go steel-communism to get a heavy-lifting city set up with IW.

Then I go industrialism-rocketry to get aluminum hooked up and Apollo in my heavy lifting city.

Industrialism is fine, I would hold off rocketry (unless you need the militray) until you get radio/computers. The lab speeds up the apollo research alot saving quite a bit of time.


Then I just tech for space parts, with fusion as the last part.

I get fusion ASAP (before genetic/ecology) for the GE to ruch the Space elevator or a golden age as you suggested, but get him earlier.

I've beelined the Space Elevator before and didn't have a lot of success tbh.

I'm thinking of trying to get a golden age triggered involving the GE from fusion, which would mean having 1-4 specialists ready in time, depending on how many golden ages I've already triggered.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm trying to win monarch/normal/standard sub-1800. I'm winning consistently right now 1875 +/- 25 years.

I have gotten quicker at getting the space launch on Prince/Marathon/Huge by holding off building Apollo until I have aluminum and laboratories; popping the fusion engineer earlier; try to get all three expensive parts being built at the same time (or at least 2 and ecology) and using other great people to pop a golden age. Patience on researching rocketry is the key I think.

 

[madscientist]

OK, I am messing up on breaking into the quotes but I think you know what is your writing and mine

 

[futurehermit]

Lol, ok, thks for the tip. I didn't realize that labs speed up the apollo. I guess I will go computers before industrialism-rocketry then. Thanks!

 

[madscientist]

You still need aluminum from industrialism since that speeds up Apollo research also.

 

[futurehermit]

Yep, I always go industrialism before rocketry.

 

[lilnev]

After Democracy, Assembly Line is the next key tech (or sometimes Astronomy, but I can often trade for it). Get those factories and coal plants up! Railroad is good too for the production boost to mines. I don't usually bother with Communism -- it's a dead-end tech, and Free Market is fine economically. State Property can give you a production boost via workshops, but the space race is more research-limited than production-limited, so I don't feel it's needed.

After Assembly Line and Railroad, I'm never sure about the order of Rocketry/Industrialism/Computers. I think it may depend on trading possibilities. If I have a spare GE I'll generally go for the Space Elevator, but it's not crucial.

Fusion should not be your last tech -- that engine takes a long time to build. Fusion comes before Genetics, which comes before Ecology (which has the cheapest of the late parts). You should have several parts all finishing around the same time, ~5 or 6 turns after Ecology.

peace,
lilnev

 

[Validator]

I don't think that tweaking your late game tech and build order is going to shave more than a few turns off your spaceship launch date. To get to a pre-1800 launch I think you're going to need to do more early.

The only times I've launched in the 1700s I've taken out my neighbors early, one with axes or an early UU, another with swords/cats and another with maces/trebs. Getting a good-sized continent all to yourself by 1200-1300 with 25 or so cities which you then proceed to cottage spam will do a lot to help your spaceship launch date.

 

[madscientist]

Validator has a point. Teching is a lot faster when you get lots of beakers from lots of cities withou worrying about rivals. The research order is still valid but the fast you kill your rivals and absorb their cities the faster you will get to space.

 

[Sgt.Cooper]

well if ur playing space focus complety onthe techs and such u need for it build a lot of cites little military and dont get very much involved in foriegn matters if u can no or free religionunless most or all of the civs hav the same religion

 

[carl corey]

I don't think that tweaking your late game tech and build order is going to shave more than a few turns off your spaceship launch date. To get to a pre-1800 launch I think you're going to need to do more early.

The only times I've launched in the 1700s I've taken out my neighbors early, one with axes or an early UU, another with swords/cats and another with maces/trebs. Getting a good-sized continent all to yourself by 1200-1300 with 25 or so cities which you then proceed to cottage spam will do a lot to help your spaceship launch date.

It's either that or having a medium-sized territory and lots of trading buddies. Otherwise as others said you're limited by research anyway. The problem with that is of course that you have to know what everyone's research path is so that you complement their research. Sooner or later you'll have to research on your own anyway instead of helping the AIs have their own Space Race victory.

Anyway, my best Space Races are in the 1890s, so I'm probably not the person to ask about "early Space Race". Latest try was a Computers beeline with Peter on Monarch but I only won in 1900 despite having a huuuuge research rate.

 

[futurehermit]

Hey guys, thks for the advice. I think I'll try going for a larger empire (25 is 10 more cities than I normally gun for) and make some of the tweaks lilnev and others suggested.

I'll let you know if I manage a sub1800 launch. It's nice to know that 1850-1900 is a respectable time frame though.

 

[uberfish]

0) Get the land.

1) Get biology+democracy to max out cities and grow cottages fast. If you can trade for democracy/its prerequisites by going biology first, do that.

2) Get assembly line+computers. Take whichever tech boosts your weaker point first to avoid getting bottlenecked on either research or production.

3) Depending on difficulty level and how well the AIs are doing you may be able to trade for steel/railroad/combustion/industrialism (or download them from the Internet) at this point and save some time, if you're miles ahead of the AI you are stuck having to research them yourself.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

My earliest launch is 1802 - two turns off a sub-1800's launch.

Early war to kill one opponent and then vassalize a second gave a large empire. Beelined democracy, then State Property, then Computers, then Assembly Line, then Industrialism, then Rocketry, then Robotics, then Fusion, then remaining space techs. Used engineer from fusion for space elevator and late game golden age from saved GP.

Made the stupid mistake of not building a laboratory in my Ironworks city. The other problem was that my Ironworks city still had 3 turns to go on the engine when I got the last tech. So my HE city had to build the last part. Better micromanagement could probably have shaved a couple of turns off.

 

[futurehermit]

Thanks uber, I normally delay biology, but I can see how it would be very helpful. I will try not to delay it in my current game with Wang, which is actually going quite well. I wiped out Monty early without crippling my econ and I am in the process of wiping out Saladin. It's 750AD. I have 2 other AIs on the continent. I'm going to see how things are time-wise and city-wise once I finish Saladin and then decide if I will take out another opponent. I figure if I do, no one can catch me, but the question is: what will be faster: 1) spending x years taking out an opponent during the renaissance era and then developing a larger empire later; or 2) start developing an empire that is already the largest x years sooner. I guess trying to get a sense of how many years x is would help a lot there.

 

[futurehermit]

My earliest launch is 1802 - two turns off a sub-1800's launch.

Early war to kill one opponent and then vassalize a second gave a large empire. Beelined democracy, then State Property, then Computers, then Assembly Line, then Industrialism, then Rocketry, then Robotics, then Fusion, then remaining space techs. Used engineer from fusion for space elevator and late game golden age from saved GP.

Made the stupid mistake of not building a laboratory in my Ironworks city. The other problem was that my Ironworks city still had 3 turns to go on the engine when I got the last tech. So my HE city had to build the last part. Better micromanagement could probably have shaved a couple of turns off.

That sounds similar to how I've approached things myself. How many cities did you have when you stopped expanding?

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Probably around 20.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Thanks uber, I normally delay biology, but I can see how it would be very helpful. I will try not to delay it in my current game with Wang, which is actually going quite well. I wiped out Monty early without crippling my econ and I am in the process of wiping out Saladin. It's 750AD. I have 2 other AIs on the continent. I'm going to see how things are time-wise and city-wise once I finish Saladin and then decide if I will take out another opponent. I figure if I do, no one can catch me, but the question is: what will be faster: 1) spending x years taking out an opponent during the renaissance era and then developing a larger empire later; or 2) start developing an empire that is already the largest x years sooner. I guess trying to get a sense of how many years x is would help a lot there.

I stopped warring around 1000AD. You need a long peace to build up your economy. If you have at least 20 cities I wouldn't fight a third war.

Not sure biology helps much if you are running a CE (which I was - also with Wang). I delayed biology also - mainly because I was hoping someone else would research it so I could trade. They never did unfortunately - I was so far ahead in tech it wasn't funny.