Critiques of Unique Powers

[Blasphemous]

This is a thread intended to criticize UPs that you find to somehow be wrong - too weak, too powerful, unhistorical, etc.
I have three to start with:
Germany's Blitzkrieg - reflects a very limited period in German history, makes Germany a prime candidate for military domination around the world from the moment they get Gunpowder, and doesn't reflect a far deeper more recurrent theme in German cultural history in the last few centuries, which is great academic achievement.
Rome's Infrastructure - doesn't quite do enough to enable Rome to create a sprawling empire. My suggestion is that all Roman non-military units and all Roman Praetorians travel at 4x on roads (in or out of roman territory), and Praetorians can construct roads (but nothing else). This will be about as strong (it gives the ability out of territory and gives Rome more roadbuilders, but limits what units get the bonus) and at the sime time better reflect history and better allow Rome to create a huge infrastructure of roads and use it to expand.
Persia's Satrapy - mainly benefits them later in the game and seemingly always allows them to create an enormous all-engulfing world empire. Simply unbalanced.

EDIT: Oh, there was a fourth:
England's Royal Navy - the Royal Navy was known for quality, not quantity. It should produce ships at normal speed but all of their military naval vessels should start with Drill I and Drill II, establishing naval supermacy for England.

 

[mitsho]

I second slightly Blasph in "England" and "Rome". Why not give Persias less corruption to Rome? Wouldn't that fit well. It'd help creating the Roman empire but it still would be difficult for Rome as they are sourrounded by other civs (unlike Persia) and thus still would have to fight their way out.
Egypts Power seems rather weak. Why not give them the ability to build temples without religion? (for balancing reasons perhaps only as long as there is no religion present in whole Egypt?). This would make the Pyramids again more useful for the Egyptians.
Persia could get - although not so historical - Rome's lesser power of keeping a large empire (the road bonus helps somehow in keeping it ).

mitsho

 

[Blasphemous]

I don't think any early civ should receive the bonus Satrapy now gives. Its main benefit is later in the game when you can get much farther much quicker. Rome would have little use for no distance maintenance until the colonial age.
I like mitsho's idea for Egypt. Give them a special Egyptian Temple building that's just a regular temple only it can't be built in a city that has any religion in it. It's really a pretty nice, hefty bonus for them.

 

[Gunner]

Hmm, lets see.

I like the current implementation of Rome's ability pretty much. I don't think that letting Praetorians build roads would really help that much. On an unrelated note, I think it would be amazing if Praetorians were renamed to Legionaries. It bugs me every single time I see Praetorians refered to like this.


I agree with Blas that England, Germany, and Persia all should be changed.

You've all heard my previous proposal that Persia be given Vassalage at the start of the game and be given the ability to draft Immortals from the start.

Giving Drill I and Drill II to England for all naval units sounds like a good idea to me.

I'm not sure exactly what bonus should be given to Germany, but a change from the current one would be in order. I'm not as conviced as Blas that it necessarily needs to be a scientific one though. I think that some type of bonus to Germany's gunpowder infantry would be good, as the country has been known for its elite forces since about that time. You could call it "Superior Training" or something like that. What type of academic bonus would you suggest for Germany Blas?

 

[Barak]

I conquer with my learned colleagues regarding England Germany and Persia (Rome as well)

 

[Blasphemous]

What type of academic bonus would you suggest for Germany Blas?

One option is simply cheaper universities (as there are some very, very old German universities), and it could go along with more from the universities (say an extra 5%) or perhaps +10% in cities with a university per 20% invested in . Another option is that universities give +1 or even +2 (to great scientist of course).
There are all kinds of things that can be done, really.

 

[Gunner]

I think that for the Germans you could easily go with either a military power or a scientific one. Since I don't know which would be better I'll just throw out what I currently think would be the best for each option.

For a military bonus I would give all German gunpowder infantry the Pinch promotion (+25% vs. guns) for free.

For scientific I would make German universities produce +50% and +1.

In the end I think I would go with the military bonus I outlined. The reason for that is that in a few short weeks Warlords will come out, which will give each nation a unique building. We could then easily make Germany's unique building an improved university without using up its civ power.

 

[Blasphemous]

I just feel even military supremacy that Germany is known for is the result of a cultural focus on education and academics.
Perhaps we can think of some kind of UP that gives Germany extra points, and even more in industrial-era wars.

 

[Barak]

I think 50% bonus to universities is too much. Perhaps cities with universities produce 20% more ?

 

[Blasphemous]

Okay, here's a solid suggestion:
German Barracks give +1 (non-specific), German Universities give +2 (scientist). And at the same time we tweak the Panzer to give Germany a bigger military advantage in the World Wars' era.

 

[Lachlan]

Good idea ! For Rome I want praetorians able to take enemies roads et move 2 per turn ...

Ainsi we can create Roman Empire !

 

[DSChapin]

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me for Germany to have a military advantage: though it really only historically makes sense for the period from 1740-1940, they were a remarkably successful military power through most of that period.

I rather liked the idea that Praetorians could build roads (but not other improvements).

 

[OzzyKP]

I'd think it goes back further than that even. Recall the Germanic tribes that brought down the Roman Empire. No offense to Germans on here, but I really do associate Germans with war more than anything else.

How is science more appropriate?

 

[Elhoim]

Rome's Infrastructure - doesn't quite do enough to enable Rome to create a sprawling empire. My suggestion is that all Roman non-military units and all Roman Praetorians travel at 4x on roads (in or out of roman territory), and Praetorians can construct roads (but nothing else). This will be about as strong (it gives the ability out of territory and gives Rome more roadbuilders, but limits what units get the bonus) and at the sime time better reflect history and better allow Rome to create a huge infrastructure of roads and use it to expand.

Better UP in my opinion.

 

[Arkaeyn]

I'd think it goes back further than that even. Recall the Germanic tribes that brought down the Roman Empire. No offense to Germans on here, but I really do associate Germans with war more than anything else.

How is science more appropriate?

I don't have a specific problem with the German UP being military, as they generally, with the exception of Napoleonic times, were a superior military force. However, I think the problem lies with the specificity of the UP, the Blitzkrieg. It's a model of a specific German tactic for basically a five-year period, from the Spanish Civil War until the snows of Russia. Meanwhile, the Germans are in the mod for 1200 years. That's a bit more than 5.

The power is also annoyingly overpowered - I end up with musketeers deep in my territory after just two turns.

 

[OzzyKP]

I noticed that non-Romans get the Roman bonus when traveling on Roman roads with an open borders treaty.

 

[Elhoim]

I noticed that non-Romans get the Roman bonus when traveling on Roman roads with an open borders treaty.

One more reason to leave it for Praetorians only.

 

[SilverKnight]

Rome's Infrastructure - doesn't quite do enough to enable Rome to create a sprawling empire. My suggestion is that all Roman non-military units and all Roman Praetorians travel at 4x on roads (in or out of roman territory), and Praetorians can construct roads (but nothing else). This will be about as strong (it gives the ability out of territory and gives Rome more roadbuilders, but limits what units get the bonus) and at the sime time better reflect history and better allow Rome to create a huge infrastructure of roads and use it to expand.
Persia's Satrapy - mainly benefits them later in the game and seemingly always allows them to create an enormous all-engulfing world empire. Simply unbalanced.

EDIT: Oh, there was a fourth:
England's Royal Navy - the Royal Navy was known for quality, not quantity. It should produce ships at normal speed but all of their military naval vessels should start with Drill I and Drill II, establishing naval supermacy for England.

Agree with all of these. What should Persia's UP be? I like Germany having a militaristic UP, but it should be one that reflects the whole history of German warfare (from Roma invasion to modern wars).

SilverKnight

 

[Blasphemous]

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me for Germany to have a military advantage: though it really only historically makes sense for the period from 1740-1940, they were a remarkably successful military power through most of that period.

I'm led to believe Germany's military prowess (the barbarian invasion aside) was a side-effect of the great emphasis on education, including military education and prestigious military academies.

I'd think it goes back further than that even. Recall the Germanic tribes that brought down the Roman Empire. No offense to Germans on here, but I really do associate Germans with war more than anything else.

How is science more appropriate?

The barbarian invasion should be represented by Germany's starting units. Give them a very big bunch of warriors with a scattered few archers, axemen, and swordsmen, and that should do the trick. They'll overwhelm the Romans by sheer force of numbers (and remember they'll have the help of a few Praetorians), and later establish their own culture.
The biggest constant in German cultural history, as far as I can see (and I have definately been brainwashed by Goethe Institut), is a great emphasis on academics and culture. The German language has changed remarkably little in the last few centuries, unlike the English language (hardly anyone here could understand this paragraph if it were read out in the English of 1750 CE, Germans don't even need help understanding Gotthold E. Lessing's work, written in that same era), all this because there has been so much writing going on in Germany for so long (in England, until the industrial revolution, priests and monks were the only ones who could read and write, pretty much).
Science and military are just symptoms of a greater theme - german culture emphasizes academics. Just give them a UP that makes their Universities much more useful, maybe their Barracks too (to represent prestigious military academies), and that will be historically correct. My favorite option right now is to add the following:
Barracks: +1, +1 (non-specific)
Universities: +1, +2 (scientist), +5%
and at the same time boost the Panzer to give that extra edge in the World Wars era.

 

[DSChapin]

If you want to represent academics making them better at war, then maybe Barracks should give extra XP, or some such? Not sure if that would be overpowered.
Of course, maybe Great Generals will open up some new ideas for a military UP, anyway.