timerover51
Deity
I was thinking of starting with a black and white outline map as you would have in a book, and then coloring it. How large an image would I need for a map of about 200 by 200 tiles?
- Thread starter Quintillus
- Start date
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- scenario editor
I was thinking of starting with a black and white outline map as you would have in a book, and then coloring it. How large an image would I need for a map of about 200 by 200 tiles?
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
The formula is
((32*T)+32) horizontal & ((16*T)+16) vertical, where T is the number of tiles you want.
for 200 x 200 that comes out to
6432 pixels horizontal by 3216 vertical.
The number needs to be exact or there will be problems in the editor. The editor has a built in calculator to help you plan in advance.
((32*T)+32) horizontal & ((16*T)+16) vertical, where T is the number of tiles you want.
for 200 x 200 that comes out to
6432 pixels horizontal by 3216 vertical.
The number needs to be exact or there will be problems in the editor. The editor has a built in calculator to help you plan in advance.
I can confirm Blue Monkey's answers. A line itself wouldn't be picked up, but if you filled in the land with a "base" color (whether it be for grassland, desert, etc.) and then colored the rest of the map in thick strokes, it would work. Occasionally certain areas may not be picked up both because the editor will go with whichever terrain (by colors) is most prominent in the diamond-shaped area that corresponds to a tile, and because certain terrains cannot border each other in Civ.
timerover51
Deity
Thanks for the information, Quintillus, but I think that I will simply go maps by hand. Besides my first objective, the Iron Dragon map, breaks down into six sections, and is 66 by 66 mileposts in size, so I will go with a 200 by 200 tile map, and do it by hand.
ronning
Warlord
probably the installation has been covered somewhere, right now Im looking at several files in folders... could you direct me to some post numbers or a readme file that covers the basic installation and where to place these folders?
ive looked around but the thread has a lot of content.
Thank you.
ronning
ive looked around but the thread has a lot of content.
Thank you.
ronning
There isn't really actually a traditional "installation", per se. The basic procedure is:
1. Unzip the download to a folder of your choosing (anywhere on your computer; it could be on a removeable drive too).
2. Double-click on the launcher.jar file.
Provided that a recent version of Java is installed, this will start the editor, at which point it will attempt to automatically locate where your copy of Civilization III is installed; if it is successful, it will load up the editor window; otherwise, it will ask you where Civ3 is installed.
If this does not work, it likely means you do not have Java installed, or have an old version. In this case, you can go to the first page of this thread, and search for "Java download links" (without quotes) in your web browser of choice to get links to the Java downloads for your operating system of choice. After Java is installed (and depending on the OS, a restart), double-clicking on the launcher.jar file should work.
In terms of images, after unzipping, your folder should look similar to the below (without the .zip or log.txt files):
launcher.jar is the one you want. The other folders are resources that the editor uses for its offline help, images on the help tab, and so forth, and can for all intents and purposes be ignored.
Good idea with including a readme file with the editor. I should start doing that.
Happy new year!
ronning
Warlord
Thank you I did update my java, and and I did get the editor to open.
No map appears, but I think I did see something about that in the thread text.
My question would be, the correct path to enter.
For example the UNITS 32 file does not match. Or should I copy my mod 32 to the Conquest folder, and set the path there?
No map appears, but I think I did see something about that in the thread text.
My question would be, the correct path to enter.
For example the UNITS 32 file does not match. Or should I copy my mod 32 to the Conquest folder, and set the path there?
I think you mean the Civ3 install path (correct me if I am wrong, and I can update this post). You can set/update this by going to the Options menu and then Editor Settings, which can also be opened with the Ctrl+P (for Preferences; Ctrl+S was already Save) shortcut as of 0.99.
You want this to be set to the location where Civilization III is installed. Typically, you want the other path, the Default opening directory, to be set to the location where Civ3 is installed plus "\Conquests\Scenarios", though this can be changed if you have scenarios saved elsewhere. In the screenshot of my settings dialog below, I have the Install Directory set to D:\Civilization III:
If you aren't sure where your Civ3 is installed, you can determine this by right-clicking on your Civ3 shortcut on the desktop or Start Menu, choosing Properties from the pop-up menu, and the value for "Start in:", without the quotes around it, is what you want for this. In the screenshot below of my Vanilla shortcut, you can see this matches the D:\Civilization III value:
If you are looking at the PTW/Conquests/Complete shortcut, you will have to leave off the last folder which will start it within the Civ3PTW or Conquests folders.
The Map enabled check box also has to be checked for the map to display, but as that is enabled by default I don't think you'll have to change its value.
Let me know if this doesn't work and we can follow up more - I typically check for thread updates every day or two.
You want this to be set to the location where Civilization III is installed. Typically, you want the other path, the Default opening directory, to be set to the location where Civ3 is installed plus "\Conquests\Scenarios", though this can be changed if you have scenarios saved elsewhere. In the screenshot of my settings dialog below, I have the Install Directory set to D:\Civilization III:
If you aren't sure where your Civ3 is installed, you can determine this by right-clicking on your Civ3 shortcut on the desktop or Start Menu, choosing Properties from the pop-up menu, and the value for "Start in:", without the quotes around it, is what you want for this. In the screenshot below of my Vanilla shortcut, you can see this matches the D:\Civilization III value:
If you are looking at the PTW/Conquests/Complete shortcut, you will have to leave off the last folder which will start it within the Civ3PTW or Conquests folders.
The Map enabled check box also has to be checked for the map to display, but as that is enabled by default I don't think you'll have to change its value.
Let me know if this doesn't work and we can follow up more - I typically check for thread updates every day or two.
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Working with the current version (.99.1) & enjoying it. Giving it a workout in a practical situation - making the Calradia map for tedros91. A few comments so far:
As I said, I'm enjoying it.
The way rivers are placed is the only major stumbling block to a good workflow. But the work is starting to flow! Keep up the good work!
- The drop down menu problem seems to be solved.
- The redraw/refresh rate seems a lot faster.
- Drawing rivers seems needlessly cumbersome. Click tile, click buttons, click tile, click buttons. The "connect the dots" method used in the firaxis editor feels more intuitive.
- Working with a transition area that is a mix of grass, plains, tundra, forests, hills, mountains. The editor won't let me place tundra if it's too close to a plains tile - or vice versa. Maybe I'm just used to the firaxis editor automatically changing surrounding tiles, but I'd rather place terrain & let the program adjust.
- No Undo? Ctrl-z didn't work.
- When I save by overwriting I get a double warning - first I have to confirm it to the OS (Java?) then in a dialogue with the editor. OTOH I can quit without any warning about unsaved changes. Not complaining, just saying.
As I said, I'm enjoying it.
The way rivers are placed is the only major stumbling block to a good workflow. But the work is starting to flow! Keep up the good work!
It's interesting that the redraw rate seems to be a lot faster; I don't think I've changed anything related to that for awhile. It could be the newer version of Java being more efficient behind the scenes. Although it's possible that if you were several versions back, there may have been a change shortly after that one which I'm not recalling. I'm also glad the drop-down problem is solved - that is related to the newer version of Java.
I do agree with the rivers. I originally implemented it the way it was because I was frustrated with a lack of precision at times in Firaxis's editor when trying to get rivers to flow a particular way in a small area. But Firaxis's method is better for longer river placement. So I think having both options would be best. And I do have an idea on how to implement it - essentially it would use, instead of the current algorithm to determine which isometric tile was clicked on, a different one to determine which tile edge you are closest to. Perhaps with a "maximum distance from center" requirement so you don't wind up with rivers all over the place when clicking and moving from one tile to another.
I've also thought about adding a Firaxis-style "change surrounding tiles as necessary" paining option. I think Firaxis does it with a "if the surrounding tile isn't valid, change it to grassland if land; coast if sea" method, which may be the best way to go starting out.
I don't currently have Undo as it would require storing the previous state, which could include a number of affected tiles. It's possible, but not trivial, and it might be a good idea for me to research undo systems in general first. I added the auto-save functionality in part because it can partially alleviate this - it isn't as good as a robust Undo system, but does provide some measure of fallback.
There is a confirm-overwrite warning when saving to an existing filename, but I don't recall seeing two
. Then again, while I've tested functionality within the editor on OS X 10.9, I'm not sure I've tried saving there, so your idea about the second warning being OS-related is possible.
There is an option in the Settings to confirm quitting (which should be on by default on a fresh download). It doesn't actually know whether there have been any changes and simply prompts on every exit, but it does prevent the situation of accidentally clicking the close icon and losing work.
Thanks again for the feedback - it's both useful to have someone else's real-use-case perspective on it (I've worked on the editor a lot more than on actual mods by this point), as well as encouraging that it is being used enough to have this good of feedback. I've been working on a different side project the past week or two for variety's sake, but will be getting back into it before too long.
I do agree with the rivers. I originally implemented it the way it was because I was frustrated with a lack of precision at times in Firaxis's editor when trying to get rivers to flow a particular way in a small area. But Firaxis's method is better for longer river placement. So I think having both options would be best. And I do have an idea on how to implement it - essentially it would use, instead of the current algorithm to determine which isometric tile was clicked on, a different one to determine which tile edge you are closest to. Perhaps with a "maximum distance from center" requirement so you don't wind up with rivers all over the place when clicking and moving from one tile to another.
I've also thought about adding a Firaxis-style "change surrounding tiles as necessary" paining option. I think Firaxis does it with a "if the surrounding tile isn't valid, change it to grassland if land; coast if sea" method, which may be the best way to go starting out.
I don't currently have Undo as it would require storing the previous state, which could include a number of affected tiles. It's possible, but not trivial, and it might be a good idea for me to research undo systems in general first. I added the auto-save functionality in part because it can partially alleviate this - it isn't as good as a robust Undo system, but does provide some measure of fallback.
There is a confirm-overwrite warning when saving to an existing filename, but I don't recall seeing two
. Then again, while I've tested functionality within the editor on OS X 10.9, I'm not sure I've tried saving there, so your idea about the second warning being OS-related is possible.There is an option in the Settings to confirm quitting (which should be on by default on a fresh download). It doesn't actually know whether there have been any changes and simply prompts on every exit, but it does prevent the situation of accidentally clicking the close icon and losing work.
Thanks again for the feedback - it's both useful to have someone else's real-use-case perspective on it (I've worked on the editor a lot more than on actual mods by this point), as well as encouraging that it is being used enough to have this good of feedback. I've been working on a different side project the past week or two for variety's sake, but will be getting back into it before too long.
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Good to hear that the feedback is useful. none of the shortcomings are deal-breakers. With the long rivers (4 Amazon/Mississippi/Nile length on this map) I can stand to use the technique of shifting to the firaxis editor to draw them. What you've provided certainly works for making any needed adjustments after that. Undo is certainly a whole ball of worms technically, I understand that. Just a bit frustrating - being able to immediately undo the last thing done has become so automatic. It's definitely either the OS or Java giving the second warning - appearance of the dialogue box is "Mac-style" rather than "Editor-style". As to placing incompatible terrains - like the other situations it's a matter of convenience. I almost always know I'm transforming surrounding tiles when I'm doing so. It's convenient when changing a region. Truth be known, going back & sorting out which of them to keep & which to edit can be a pain When all I wanted was to change one or two tiles. The way things stand I just need to change surrounding tiles first manually - a different approach rather than a problem.
Bottom-line: every shortcoming reported is requested improvement rather than necessary to function. Rather have you work on other more critical parts of the editor. Hopefully people using it for other aspects of scenario building will provide feedback on things beyond mapping.
Bottom-line: every shortcoming reported is requested improvement rather than necessary to function. Rather have you work on other more critical parts of the editor. Hopefully people using it for other aspects of scenario building will provide feedback on things beyond mapping.
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
"Save as you go". Worst scenario - I finally heard the call to dinner at the end of an epic 20 hour programming session. Turned off the computer. Then realized I had lost about the last 18 hours of work by doing so. Fortunately, after a day of mourning, rest and eating, I was able to write a more elegant program in a mere 5 hours. & learned to "save as".
Karl der Grosse
Chieftain
where to download?
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Link is in OP (first post)
Karl der Grosse
Chieftain
Really?
The 'start.zip' link goes NOWHERE; it brings up a blank page - in my Firefox 42 - that is blank.
The 'start.zip' link goes NOWHERE; it brings up a blank page - in my Firefox 42 - that is blank.
Nathiri
Commander
Should be one of the click here buttons.
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Don't know what's going on. On the 4th everything worked fine. Today Launcher does nothing. Tried trashing the whole editor folder, emptying trash, restarting, fresh download & install. Still nothing. I click-start it like I would any other application, but nothing. I keep the older editor versions (& associated files) in a separate folder. .98 opens just fine & successfully opens the Calradia biq.
Only thing I can think of is that some weirdness with the Java version problem we never fully sorted out is causing this. But it may be something entirely different.
Only thing I can think of is that some weirdness with the Java version problem we never fully sorted out is causing this. But it may be something entirely different.
Really?
The 'start.zip' link goes NOWHERE; it brings up a blank page - in my Firefox 42 - that is blank.
It isn't actually attached to the first post; the start.zip is a utility to help with occasionally launching issues on Windows. I should remove that from the first post and host it elsewhere since I can see how that attachment could be mistaken for the download. Update: Done.
Instead, you can download it from the this Downloads Database entry, which is linked to in the text of the first post.
It does sound likely that it may be related to Java versions - that's the one key difference that would cause 0.98 (and earlier) to work, but not 0.99 (and later). Can you look at the log for 0.98 and check what's listed for the last line that includes "Java runtime version" (without quotes around it)? Searching for that backwards from the end should find it. It should be 1.8.something, but it may somehow have been reverted. If it's 1.6.something (or 1.7 or 1.5), then somehow an old version became the default again.
The alternative would be to try firing it up via the command-line from the Terminal, since that would print out any error messages, but at this point I think the Java version is the most likely cause and should be investigated first.
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Excerpt from .98 log on Jan 6:
Equivalent excerpt from .99 log on 8 Jan:
I'm willing to do any troubleshooting you need. OTOH is there any reason I shouldn't use the Ver .99 editor for practical purposes in the meantime - only using firaxis-safe terrain, not even any landmark needed for this map - since it starts up without the launcher?
Looking in the .99 folder there was no log. Tried starting Launcher. No Dice. Just for grins decided to try opening the .99 editor directly (this works with .98 although I use the launcher as a matter of course). Opened fine, the initial "directory location" dialogue came up, I was able to load and examine the Calradia biq.
Equivalent excerpt from .99 log on 8 Jan:
As you can see, it's running the newer java version, but the launcher is not working. So the problem is something in the launcher, not the editor itself.
I'm willing to do any troubleshooting you need. OTOH is there any reason I shouldn't use the Ver .99 editor for practical purposes in the meantime - only using firaxis-safe terrain, not even any landmark needed for this map - since it starts up without the launcher?
The only downside to starting it directly is that doing so limits the editor to whatever the system default for Java memory is. Not all that long ago, that was often 128 MB or even 64 MB, which was often not sufficient for drawing maps. I think this has been upped with newer versions of Java, so you may well be able to get away with this now. The launcher's main purpose is to work around the old, low limits.
There is an option in Options -> Change Special Actions -> View Memory Usage Info to see what the maximum that the program can use is. If it's 1 million KB or higher (1 GB+), then you should be fine (and yes, I probably should switch it to MB). 512 MB should be fine too, except for the particularly small zooms. Once you start getting around the 256 MB region is where it might get dicey in some areas. I'd be curious what this gives you when the editor is started directly, as if it's high enough, it may be time to retire the launcher. On Windows, with 8 GB of system RAM, I'm already getting about 1.75 GB when launching directly, which is actually more than the launcher is configured to give it (1 GB). If OS X also gives that a ceiling of 1 GB or more, and with Java 8 now required, the launcher would be obsolete. The value may vary depending on how much RAM you have installed as I understand it, so noting that would also be useful for perspective.
What would be most useful with troubleshooting the launcher issues is to start a terminal, navigate to the folder where the editor is located, and then running:
Code:
java -jar launcher.jarAnd seeing what it outputs. If there's some sort of technical error message, that would be useful to know.
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