Crowdfunding questions

[Valka D'Ur]

I have some questions about crowdfunding, specifically crowdfunding on FB. I don't want to do anything myself, but as co-admin of a Fighting Fantasy Gamebook group, I have to deal with it.

The group has opted to allow crowdfunding for gamebooks other than Fighting Fantasy, as many of us enjoy multiple types of that sort of RPG.

So my question is this: How much is too much? How often is too often? I'm asking because if it were solely up to me, the only crowdfunding I'd allow on that group would be for strictly Fighting Fantasy projects (sourcebooks, board games, other resources), and posts would be allowed sparingly. As in NOT multiple people posting every other day.

Obviously that's just my opinion. My co-admins have basically tossed me the ball of drafting new rules for crowdfunding, selling gamebooks and other materials, and the goal is to not alienate anyone while also not choking off the discussion threads because there are days when the group looks more like an eBay listing than a FB group.

Another goal is to avoid spam reports; someone already made spam reports even though the posts met the technical definition of being on-topic.

If it were a real forum, it would be easy to include everything (I saw how this was done on the first gaming forum I ever joined; there was an actual subforum for it and the owners assumed no liability for sales and trades that went sour - which very few did as participants were rated publicly as to how efficiently they kept up their end).

But this isn't a real forum, I'm still learning the back end of how groups work, and a decision needs to be made.

Obviously I want to make a fair decision, so I'm asking advice. I realize that the people who create the gaming projects need to make announcements from time to time, but how often is reasonable?

If you were part of a gaming group of this type, how much crowdfunding and selling would be okay and how much/how often would seriously annoy you?

 

[The_J]

TBH that depends a bit on how often this happens, and how often other interesting projects/topics appear.
Your most relevant goal is that this should not drown out the rest of what you have. You should not have only crowdfunding topics popping up.
...and there the advice already stops, since you need to first get an idea about this.
I'd let it run for a while without much rules (1 month?), and then decide something based on your new information.

 

[EnglishEdward]

IMO crowdfunding has to be focused on a specific topic.

If you don't want to have anything to do with it, don't.

It should be for those who want it to propose the rules and scope.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

TBH that depends a bit on how often this happens, and how often other interesting projects/topics appear.
Your most relevant goal is that this should not drown out the rest of what you have. You should not have only crowdfunding topics popping up.
...and there the advice already stops, since you need to first get an idea about this.
I'd let it run for a while without much rules (1 month?), and then decide something based on your new information.

It's already been going on for quite awhile (well over a month), and the reason I'm asking is because problems are being identified. I am asking for advice and suggestions from people who are more familiar with crowdfunding than I am (in general; I'm assuming this because of the nature of this forum) but aren't part of the solo-play gamebook fandom that Fighting Fantasy and similar gamebooks fall into (others are things like Grail Quest, Lone Wolf, Cretan Chronicles, etc. plus a lot of new indie projects)

IMO crowdfunding has to be focused on a specific topic.

If you don't want to have anything to do with it, don't.

It should be for those who want it to propose the rules and scope.

Would you recommend a poll, then? (I've never set one of those up on FB and have no idea how they actually work). I already know that there are people who think the current situation is okay - they're the ones posting every other day. Some of us would rather just discuss the books, and I have no idea who the people are who made spam reports. Obviously this needs a solution before the group gets in trouble with FB.

There are multiple crowdfunding initiatives going on there, for various gamebook and resource projects. Each is a specific, separate situation.

Basically, I'm asking you (plural you) to put yourself in the shoes of someone in a group like that. At what point would something like this annoy you? We've already booted around the idea of allowing people to post about this stuff on a specific day of the week and no other. Would that seem fair, or would 4-5 times/month seem too much?

 

[EnglishEdward]

I have limited experience of fund raising, so question the value of my response.

I'd limit the poll to your face book pages administrators as they will have to deal with any fallout.

Would suggest they encourage setting up separate pages for each crowdfund project.

جمع التبرعات لأغراض شخصية على فيسبوك: الإعداد والرسوم والعوائد

ابدأ حملة جمع تبرعات على فيسبوك لجمع تبرعات من أجل أغراض شخصية. يمكنك جمع التبرعات من أجل أغراض طبية أو رياضية أو للرحلات أو الطلاب أو الحيوانات الأليفة...

www.facebook.com

I'd limit posting on your own site to links to those separate pages and significant news.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The group has opted to allow crowdfunding for gamebooks other than Fighting Fantasy, as many of us enjoy multiple types of that sort of RPG.

What does this mean? Are you talking about selling products for money? Or asking for money with giveaways as rewards?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

What does this mean? Are you talking about selling products for money? Or asking for money with giveaways as rewards?

Let's say you want to create something and sell it, but you don't have enough $$$$ for the upfront expenses. This thing, whatever it is, is something that you think - and hope - will be popular and that people will want it enough to chip in to help you with the upfront expenses. So you set a financial goal of how much you need, a deadline for when you need it, and as a thank you to the people who will hopefully help you, you decide on a few exclusive thank-you gifts to give them at certain stages of the process.

It's like the producers of a Star Trek fan film trying to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars to rent equipment and facilities, pay whichever actors need to be paid (if they use anyone registered with SAG, there's a minimum amount that has to be paid, as per the rules of that guild; they can't just donate their time for free), pay for the effects, pay for a ton of whatever else.

It's a similar thing for a game or gamebook, except this time it's people and stuff involved in getting the thing created, illustrated, edited, published, and marketed. Hopefully at some point you'll break even. Actually turning a profit would be gravy. You're hoping that your fellow gamers will see that your project is worth a few dollars to help you, and most crowdfunding has tiers - the more you donate, the higher the qualities of the extras you could receive (sometimes those include being listed in the credits as a donor, or you might get a copy of some exclusive thing that was created just for the donors).


Anyway, the only way to get the fundraising going is to let people know and keep them updated. That's fine as long as it's not too pushy. And that's where the problem has come to pass in the FB group. Some people are pushing this too much, and it's become anywhere from mildly annoying to some members, and at least one person reported one of the current projects to FB as spam. Too many spam reports and FB can and does shut groups down if it thinks we're letting those spam posts through - even though it's on-topic for us.

What we need is that medium place between allowing the game creators to publicize their projects, update their progress, but not so frequently that it annoys the hell out of everyone who isn't involved in it.

This is why I'm asking people here. We're all gamers of some sort or other here. I personally have never participated in crowdfunding either as a creator or donor. I do know what my own tolerance level is for looking at it (and I have zero interest in the non-Fighting Fantasy games that are being advertised, but it was a decision made before I joined the admin team that these would be allowed as long as it's a game that's similar to FF - for instance, we wouldn't allow anything like D&D because that's a completely different type of RPG).

I am asking for suggestions, opinions, advice, etc. on what your (plural 'your') tolerance level would be. Imagine someone was crowdfunding some Civ thing and kept posting about it in OT (pretend for the sake of this analogy that it would actually be allowed). At what point would you say, "Enough already, this is really annoying me, and I'm gonna report it as spam!"

Or would your tolerance level of this sort of thing be zero? That's a valid opinion, too.

One of my colleagues suggested once a week. But once a week per project could still result in a deluge of crowdfunding posts. I realize that part of the way these things work is that they have to keep donors in the loop - communication is critical so people don't start to think that the person has just taken their money and run off with it (this happened in a notorious situation with one of the Star Trek fan film projects).

 

[Birdjaguar]

Thanks, typical crowd sourcing but for multiple different products developed by multiple people. Without some formal structure I think it will be chaos.

My first thoughts:

Step 1, know what you are dealing with:

• Has it been successful so far?
• How much money has been raised so far?
• How many individual donors have given money?
• How many projects have been completed and delivered to customers?
• How many projects are being crowdsourced now?
• How many are in the works to be marketed in in the next 3 months?

Step 2: know what you options are

• Can crowd sourcing posts be physically separated from the main discussion areas? (sub groups?)
• Can they be highlighted (diminished) when next to non crowd sourcing posts?
• Can members have an option to see or not see such ads?
• Will people just do it anyway?

Step 3: Ask the people who are being asked to give:

• What do they think about the volume and frequency of ads.
• Ask them if they are satisfied with the products being delivered

The last step is to figure out the organizational structure needed that answers the following:

• Who gets to crowdsource?
• How often?
• How many projects can be advertised per day per week?
• Are there money limits?
• Who manages the money/accounts to prevent fraud?
• Tax issues for sales? Tax issues for people getting the money?
• This will be a business if it is ongoing and it needs to be run like a business.