Cruise missile tips

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by JonFitt
It's bizarre that they don't come preset as tactical missiles! You should be able to store cruises on battleships, aegis, and possibly even destroyer. As it is I can't get them to where I want them, you not even allowed to airlift them.

I think it is because of lack of programation to able a.i. to use them properly like civ 2. it give human an advantage but IMHO when you reach modern era a.i. are dead anyway with proper war, use bomber or cruise missile it wont change the fatality for a.i. If you mod , then it is more fun.

I tell you it is something to see a cruise missile start from an aegis and bombard 8 tile away look great.

 

[SunZsu]

CMs work pretty well as cheap arty ......... have had as many as 20-25 in a stack along w/ lots of arty, MA and MI ........ to attack cities, esp. those defended by MI in large pop. ctrs, hit with arty 1st, then bombers, then CMs last because the CMs can kill the MI after arty and bombers have knocked them down a few pts ..... after all bombers, arty, and CMs are used, then unleash your MA ..... might still loose a few, but if you had enough bombardment units, can usually take the largest of enemy cities w/minimal losses...... works particularly well when attacking enemy capital since caps fanatically defended - so kill them in droves before exposing your army! .....

SO SPEAKETH THE GREAT KHAN - DEATH TO ALL WHO OPPOSE HIS GLORIOUS HORDE!!!!

 

[JonFitt]

But how do you get them off continent?

 

[Crow T Robot]

Originally posted by JonFitt
It's bizarre that they don't come preset as tactical missiles! You should be able to store cruises on battleships, aegis, and possibly even destroyer. As it is I can't get them to where I want them, you not even allowed to airlift them.

You are right if you want the game to mimic every capability the naval units *ever* had. There is a *big* difference between the Dreadnoughts of the 1890s and the last Battleships ever built though. Over the course of their existance only a few (2) battleships ever carried cruise missles, and only for a few years years before they were retired (again).

Allowing CMs onto everything decreases the unique capabilities of some of the units, and if everything could carry CMs why build anything but Battleships?

Because of limitations of the attributes (capabilities) for units I could never get CMs onto transports for export to colonies AND onto ships, so when I revamped naval settings, I added a naval missile, the Harpoon, as a lethal ship to ship cruise missile (which it is).

These are *perfect* for the "AEGIS Cruiser" which in reality is a Guided Missile Destroyer (AEGIS is a weapons control system, not a vessel class). Set the AEGIS to carry 4 to 6 of these and patrol with a Battleship, and they can also replenish slower subs far from home if they need to. I also moved the AEGIS to be available around rocketry.

As an aside, the AEGIS graphic looks like a Cabin Cruiser to me and the regular destroyer IS depicted as having the AEGIS system (the very distinctive octagonal panel on the front). But I try not to sweat the small stuff.

If you add a new naval cruise missile, like the Harpoon, Popeye or even Penguin (or just make a copy of the CM), you can leave CMs as land based missiles and transport them (mine arent lethal to sea units). Then make the naval cruise missile able to fire from land, the AEGIS or nuclear sub.

What would be *really* nice and accurate, would be to add air superiority/SAM capability to destroyers making it able to help protect the fleet in that way.

That could maybe be done by creating a new plane with a range of 2 to 4 that bases only on the destroyer and with only the air superiority the capability. While neat, even if it worked, the AI would not figure out how to use it - they would base them in cities as cheap SAM systems.

 

[Crow T Robot]

Originally posted by JonFitt
But how do you get them off continent?

If you remove the tactical missile flag, you can move them by transport. This will normally keep them off of the nucler sub though. I suppose you might be able to add air lift capability, but I never tried this. It doesnt bother me to have to struggle to project power.

I tried to flag the CM as a tactical missile AND foot unit so it could go by transport or sub, but it never quite worked for me as the nuclear sub could then carry Tactical Nukes, CMs or Infantry.

I preferred to remove the Tactical flag so that CMs can move by transport, and simply create a new naval cruise missile for the nuclear sub and anything else you want to put it on.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by JonFitt
But how do you get them off continent?

If you move your transport to a coastal square next to your land, you can then move your CM onto the transport the same way as a normal unit. I have done ths many times and I have NOT modded any stats or abilities in the editor.

 

[Crow T Robot]

Correct,with no mods they can load into a transport, though I *thought* one of the patches changed that. However, it might be that a patch coincided with when I started the make mods to the CM and navy.

The bigger issue is that without the tactical missile flag the CM cant be delivered by naval units which is what many people expect. With the tactical flag, it cant be moved by transport.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by Tiamat


If you move your transport to a coastal square next to your land, you can then move your CM onto the transport the same way as a normal unit. I have done ths many times and I have NOT modded any stats or abilities in the editor.

Not with the latest patch, i try before my post because with some previous patch it was possible to move them into transport, but now no.

You have to mod the game as i said, and btw cruise missile dont have tactical missile abilitay as a default, hey guy , do some test before posting wrong information.

Edit: oups maybe when i gave them tactical missile abilty. it remove the ability to be transport by transport, i am not sure yet. But i much prefer to carry them with aegis cruiser than a transport, because with transport you cannot lauch them from it, you have to unload them on ground and then next turn use it. But with an aegis cruiser you can fire them from the boat ( like a tactical missile)

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

SunZsu's advice on CM use is sound.

I too also use CM to finish off those pesky AI ships bombarding my shores. I find that making 4 cruise missles is faster than making 1 carrier and then all the planes for that carrier.

 

[Civanator]

the last time i got CM's i could load them on transports. Also a really good tip is to shoot them while on the transport. YES it can be done. Right click on the transport and clikc "Wake Cruise Missile" and then click bombard and attack a ship or unit. I use this tactic often to protect my transports.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by Civanator
the last time i got CM's i could load them on transports. Also a really good tip is to shoot them while on the transport. YES it can be done. Right click on the transport and clikc "Wake Cruise Missile" and then click bombard and attack a ship or unit. I use this tactic often to protect my transports.

There is so much change through patch, this ability to fire from a transport is new IMO, because i try before with 1.16 and it didnt work.

Do you still have to move CM into transport or it can be loaded as a regular ground unit?

 

[JonFitt]

So let's recap, what can a CM do in the fully patched unmodded version? Can it be carried by any units?

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by JonFitt
So let's recap, what can a CM do in the fully patched unmodded version? Can it be carried by any units?

If you have a game in modern era, try to move a cruise missile into a transport, dont try to load it from a city, it may not work, but if you move it into the transport it may work. But for sure with a tactical flag i am no able to load it into transport, only nuclear sub( which got this ability by default) and aegis cruiser ( which i mod to carry 4 units and or tactical missile).

 

[Tiamat]

Okay, I just tried it again. I am using 1.29f unmodded and I was able to move a CM onto a transport. You can't load them if the transport is in a city, but you can unload.

However, if the transport is on any water square, I am not able to bombard after waking the CM up. So, Civinator must have modded either the transport or the CM in his version or is using a different patch.

Hope this helps everybody.

 

[royfurr]

Originally posted by Crow T Robot


You are right if you want the game to mimic every capability the naval units *ever* had. There is a *big* difference between the Dreadnoughts of the 1890s and the last Battleships ever built though. Over the course of their existance only a few (2) battleships ever carried cruise missles, and only for a few years years before they were retired (again).

Good point.

Allowing CMs onto everything decreases the unique capabilities of some of the units, and if everything could carry CMs why build anything but Battleships?

Exactly!

Because of limitations of the attributes (capabilities) for units I could never get CMs onto transports for export to colonies AND onto ships, so when I revamped naval settings, I added a naval missile, the Harpoon, as a lethal ship to ship cruise missile (which it is).

Here, Crow T Robot, is my question. Based on your suggestion in a previous thread on this topic, I do like you do: save CM's for land based work (no lethal sea attack either) and added the Penguin Anti-Ship Missile for at-sea work on the Perry Class (renamed as "Missle Frigate"), AEGIS and Nuc's. My inquiry- is Harpoon another NEW UNIT or did you just re-name Penguin?

To add a little additional detail, instead of making the range 6 like the Tactical (Nuke), I made it 5 (CM and Penguin)- this way its longer range then Fighters, shorter then bombers, allowing for duels between ships and land based sites. I debated decreasing the cost but didn't want to devaule Naval units (by having cheap anti-naval units), so left it at 60. Finally, I kept the capacity down- just one for AEGIS, and two for both Nuke Submarines and the Missle Frigate (Perry Class, Dark Sheer's unit- renamed). I want to need logisitics (at sea replentishment)- I will allow Transports to carry CM, wish I could figure out how to have them carry but not fire Penguins, and separately will add the modern transport unit ("Cruise ship" looking unit) and call it Troop Transport- and NOT be able to carry anything but troops/arty/mech etc.- NO missles.

What would be *really* nice and accurate, would be to add air superiority/SAM capability to destroyers making it able to help protect the fleet in that way.

AGREED! I wish a naval ability to defend itself, at least a bit, against air and missle attack existed (outside of Carrier based Air Superiorty against aircraft). WW2 Anit-Aircraft cruisers (eg. the USS Juneau and its class) carried an awesome amount of radar controlled 5 inch guns and 40 mm AA. They WERE able to knock down significant numbers of attacking aircraft. Less of couse than CAP fighters could, but still a stastically significant number. Historically, attacking Naval Air suffered fairly high casuality rates against ships. The Japanese suffered 29 losses out of 350 attacking Pearl Harbor- where they had pretty much complete tactical surprise and a significant experience and tech advantage in machines and pilot ability. Thats almost 10% losses! Losses approaced 30% or so per attack in the carrier battles in the first two years of the war. So ships could cause significant aircraft losses whilst defending themselves.

BTW, I've not noticed this, but does anyone know if Air Superiorty missions will oppose Cruise Missle attacks?? This would somewhat represent Phalanx anti-missile defences. Not the same as a true native ship based defensive ability (or a real Phalanx, which is not an aircraft), but better then nothing and another reason to build CV's and Naval Airpower.

 

[Civanator]

No i didn't mod my game. I loaded it on a transport and shot a ship.

 

[kb2tvl]

I use cruise missles to down battle ships when I dont have a ship/port on that coast. I will use either arty for a single ship or a tatical nuke for a stack of ships and the use cruise missles to sink them from there.