CTP2 vs CIV3: any thoughts?

[Locutus]

Originally posted by archer_007
1. Terrible Diplomacy, even if you where three times more powerful, the AI would not agree to any type of treaty.

As Dale, pointed out, modded CtP2 diplomacy is better (more realistic) than Civ3's diplomacy.

2. Highly unrealistic combat, 10 tanks losing to one spearmen just because he's in a city is stupid.

Are you sure you're not confused with Civ2? In both CtP1 and CtP2, modded or unmodded, it's mathematically impossible for a single Spearman to defeat an army of 10 Tanks. I bothered to do a little test for you: in unmodded CtP1 (which has the most 'unrealistic' combat system of the entire CtP series), in a mountain city with all possible defensive improvements and wonders AND with a fortification even in a pikeman vs 4 tanks battle the pikeman consistently couldn't do more than moderate damage to one of the tanks. I can assure you that Civ3's combat system is a *lot* less realistic than that. In fact, in a recent interview (see Apolyton Column 204), one of the Firaxians admitted they had deliberately made Civ3 combat unrealistic because otherwise strategic resources would be too unbalancing

3.PW, this is the dumbes idea ever.

What Martin said.

4.Way,way,way too much micromanagement. All the cities were like fussy babies.

Either you're joking or you never played Civ2. Either way, you obviously haven't discovered the empire manager screens and build queues yet, to name but 2 examples...

5.Turns were like 10 minutes long, and that was early game if you didn't know anyone else.

Hmm, even modded CtP2 (the 'heaviest' game in the CtP series) runs smoothly on my old P200, even with some of the animations enabled and TSRs running in the background. Civ3 even with all fancy extra's disabled on the same system optimized for gaming (no TSRs or anything of the kind) barely runs at all, turns take many minutes... What are you talking about?

No offense, but it sounds to me like you're just trying to justify to yourself the fact that you actually wasted money on Civ3...

 

[dalla_boo]

heh, I've played all the Mod's now and I gotta say that you people rock!!

Med Mod(ver.2.2 i think) : Pretty cool with its new* units and support thing but very annoying sometimes when i pay 50% of my production for those units. Another thing was 30-60 turns to build a settler, in Cradle I can push it up to 15 to 30 turns and still have a decent PW.
Otherwise awesome MOD.

And World at War(ver.1.04) : Wow! Awesome thing, very agressive, I got my ass kicked first 2 times I played it, I heaven't been beaten in this game for a long time.
Some units seems to be over-powered but thats about it.

Now I'm gonna check out Super Apolyton Pack and if I have time play that Game of the Month thing you have on Apolyton.

cheers

edit: it seems that I posted in the wrong thread...lol...I need sleep

 

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by dalla_boo

edit: it seems that I posted in the wrong thread...lol...I need sleep

Actual you just posted some thoughts about CTP2 and told us something about the modding ability of CTP2, that is a great feature of CTP2 and in this way it isn't in Civ3. So right thread.

-Martin

 

[fantasy_sports]

Civ 3 is a horrible slow game that is not worth buying and Call to Power 2 is much faster and much more realistic that civ3 or civ2.

 

[Frodo Bolson]

One thing I don't like about Call to Power II is that is I choose to play against 2 civilizations, they WILL be the Americans and the Scots. To see others, I must add more civilizations, but you can't play a game without americans or scots unless they are beaten.

And about diplomacy, I notice that in the early stages of the game they refuse everything, but when time goes on and I am more powerful the americans agree changes or agreements, but the scots remain saying "no". I think it's just they give a little personality to each AI leader.

 

[Morbius]

bwahahaha, the americans your friendly and understanding neighbors, but the scots are evil and aggressive.
right, its a u.s. american game i take it?

 

[Frodo Bolson]

If you want to be patriotic, try to make yourself a bit more presentable. You wouldn't like to make me think that Americans are ignorants that don't know how to write, right? Then, correct this details of yours

1) "the americans your friendly and understanding neighbors". That sentence has not meaning. Perhaps it can have if you add an ARE between "americans" and "your"

2) "its a u.s. american game " If that "its" is supposed to be a contraction of "IT IS", then you must write "It's".

3) "i take it?" What did you mean there? If I understand? Then, you should have to say "you", not "I" (and I'm not sure if the verb is correct), and when used to talk about the first singular person "I" always go in a capital letter. And you also should have placed a "," between this question and the sentence that was before.

What a shame, an ignorant indian teaching you how to write your own languaje.

 

[Immortal Wombat]

I don't think Morbius is american. I think he's poking fun at the american gaming industry making america the "good guys" all the time. I think...
oh, and 4) you spelt bwahahaha wrong. Its either "Bwuahahaha" or "Mwahahaha"

You can get random civilisations by playing at the third difficulty level or above, the first two will give you non-random civs.
The other way is to open userprofile.txt, find the line NonRandomCivs=Yes and make it NonRandomCivs=No. Then save the file and make it write-protected.

 

[6ajax9]

the fan boys and girls of Civ3 have such a hard time playing the CTP series because they are generally aged in that nasty pubesant stage of development and hate people pointing at them saying that they are different...

CTP is far removed form Civ3... modded CTP that is.. it is a far more mature and celebreal game that is not affraid to tackle historic subject matter that the mainstream wishes it could pretend never happened..

The mods that are available for CTP2 are works of art!... the sheer work that has been put in to them by the modders is something else!... what champions they are..!

Yeah Civ3 introduces a few good odds and sods.. but it still feels like it was made for teenagers.. i want my meglomania taken seriously!

200+ workers per turn???.. ah good, its time for my root canal work..

Manuvering my large ungrouped invasion army through an enemies territory???.. no no take your time with those plyers mr torturer its not like ive got anything better to do!

If you havent played CTP with any of the mod communities work installed, you havent played CTP.. start with the Apolyton pack v2.0... and you tell me if the A.I doesnt crush you like a worm..

 

[Raw is War?]

Out-of-the-box civ3 is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!! better than out-of-the-box CTP, I hate CTP. That said i can't compare Civ3 to modded CTP as i haven't played a modded CTP.

Edit: I now realise that you meant CTP2 which I haven't played, so no comment there.

 

[Ville]

Civ 3 is better IMHO

 

[Dale]

Originally posted by Raw is War?
Out-of-the-box civ3 is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!! better than out-of-the-box CTP, I hate CTP. That said i can't compare Civ3 to modded CTP as i haven't played a modded CTP.

Edit: I now realise that you meant CTP2 which I haven't played, so no comment there.

Civ3 may beat CTP2 out of the box, but at least I could play MP with CTP2. With Civ3 you have to buy a whole new game (PTW) and then it's STILL buggy!

So, MP civ playing:
CTP2: $5 bargain bin
Civ3 & PTW: $80 + $45 = $125.

Read the maths!

Then:
CTP2 + Mods (I play SAP2 & WAW) = AI not cheating obviously and a good game (WAW AI still kicks my but)
Civ3 + Mods = What mods? Oh..... you mean those puny little mods that you can write with the "editor"?

Oh, and MP still works with CTP2 + Mods. Where's Civ3 + Mods MP?

 

[Martin Gühmann]

Dale, actual he is talking about CTP1, but nevertheless you points are also valid fo CTP1 and Civ3. When it comes to MP CTP1 is the game to go. But even the MP features of CTP2 out of the box are much better then the ones of Civ3 out of the box.

And finally to all of you out-of-the-box-players don't tell me Civ3 is much better then CTP2 while you are using the latest patch. A patch is a file out of the internet and not out of the box if you want to compare out of the box games then CTP2 is much better then Civ3. If you start using patches then, you have to accept that you can also use mods to improve a game.

-Martin

 

[Ville]

Originally posted by Dale


1) Civ3 may beat CTP2 out of the box, but at least I could play MP with CTP2. With Civ3 you have to buy a whole new game (PTW) and then it's STILL buggy!

2)So, MP civ playing:
CTP2: $5 bargain bin
Civ3 & PTW: $80 + $45 = $125.

Read the maths!

3)Then:
CTP2 + Mods (I play SAP2 & WAW) = AI not cheating obviously and a good game (WAW AI still kicks my but)
Civ3 + Mods = What mods? Oh..... you mean those puny little mods that you can write with the "editor"?

Oh, and MP still works with CTP2 + Mods. Where's Civ3 + Mods MP?

1)PTW is quite bugfree with latest patch
2)Civ3 was about 40€ for me and PTW less than 30€
3)Some great mods for Civ3: DyP, TAM, MEM, TETurkhan ToT, Balancer etc.

I still say that Civ3 is better + =

 

[Solver]

Ville, consider this. Only a year after the Civ 3 release, MP appeared - and it took two patches after that to work right for most people. Geez.

Yes, there are good mods for Civ 3, but people don't play modded MP. Besides, you can't imagine how greater CtP2 mods are. Those can change ANYTHING. Civ 3 players are raving that there's no fixed diplomacy. Hah. CtP2 mods can do (and there are mods that have done) things like radiation after nuke blasts (units lose health in range), migration (well, migration), and many others.

 

[Dale]

ville:

1)PTW is quite bugfree with latest patch

We've been talking "out of the box" not patched. "Quite bugfree" still implies there's more bugs after the patch. Both CTP2 and Civ3 fail in that respect.

2)Civ3 was about 40€ for me and PTW less than 30€

That's still 70 euro for one game. CTP2 still kicks its but for price. Oh, and my prices are Aussie prices.

3)Some great mods for Civ3: DyP, TAM, MEM, TETurkhan ToT, Balancer etc.

You can't do a tenth as much modding as you can in CTP2. Can you rewrite an ENTIRE model from within the game using the built in scripting language? Well? Was that a very tiny sheepish "no"? CTP2 it's very easy to rewrite an entire model in the game, I had the first diplomacy rewrite out a few months after the game was released so I know how easy it is.

 

[Solver]

Right... to Dale goes the credit of the first mod I've installed for CtP2 I guess... made diplomacy MUCH better.

 

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Ville

1)PTW is quite bugfree with latest patch

And I thought you talked about Civ3 out of the box.

Anyway with the release of the CTP2 source code the fans will make shure that CTP2 is finished and bug free. Yes it is confirmed it is just a question of time.

-Martin