Cultist from OO too imba?

[GePap]

not if you use waterwalking with the cultists and approach from the water, then they have to have a navy to defend against it. Oh they have a navy? Just summon the big squid creature to protect your Cultists while they spam on the Tsunami, easy as pie! And yes, Tsunami can hurt your own units, but if you play it smart, you can position the Cultist so he can hit a city without hitting the tile your units are on too.

Tsumani has the same range as Maelstrom, so theoretically the enemy can bring over some air mages and strike back with maelstrom against you, weaking you enough to then attack, with say, fireballs or a fleet.

I agree that Tsunami is very powerful, but a good player (or good AI) would know how to deal with the situation.

One thing I dislike about Tsunami is that if there are any units from other civs in range, using the spell is a diplomatic nightmare. There have been plenty of times I wanted to use Tsumani but didn't because it would cause a war with a third party I was not interested in being at war with at the time, including vassals or mine.

 

[PacoDeth]

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but doesn't Tsunami do an incredible amount more damage that Maelstorm? At least from my in game experience it does.

 

[Lt_Kain]

Don't forget also that tsunami pillage every square of coast ..

 

[GePap]

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but doesn't Tsunami do an incredible amount more damage that Maelstorm? At least from my in game experience it does.

The issue I brought up is that a good player could counter your strategy regarding the use of Tsunami, and as others have noted, Tsunami won't be of any use if the core enemy cities sit inland away from any lakes, at which point Tsunami is useless, while something like Malestrom or fireballs still work.

 

[Lt_Kain]

Yes but in the meantime the enemy is destroying your coastal cities and destroy your amenagment so, you wont be able to build a fleet or things like that .. Nice to have only inland city and you do what after that ? you retake the city and build in it again ? i am not sure that it is possible to counter this strategy unless you attack directly his empire.

 

[Amuro]

Yes but in the meantime the enemy is destroying your coastal cities and destroy your amenagment so, you wont be able to build a fleet or things like that .. Nice to have only inland city and you do what after that ? you retake the city and build in it again ? i am not sure that it is possible to counter this strategy unless you attack directly his empire.

THe only way to counter tsunami is to go yourself octopus and build plenty of cultists ...that what I call balanced...

 

[GePap]

Yes but in the meantime the enemy is destroying your coastal cities and destroy your amenagment so, you wont be able to build a fleet or things like that .. Nice to have only inland city and you do what after that ? you retake the city and build in it again ? i am not sure that it is possible to counter this strategy unless you attack directly his empire.

Actually, the simplest thing to do is hold your army in reserve away from your city, out of the range of Tsunamis. If they happen to then take the City, you counterattack, and destroy the units in your own turn.

Again, you talk as if this were an inevitable strategy. For one, I have never seen the AI use it in any of my .31 or .32 games, and second, I have never used it myself, if only because I don't favor water maps, and if I chose OO, I do so for Hemah and the culture boost, given that OO temples give you the most culture.

I don't see the big issue with a strategy I have never seen, and which I can think of several ways to counter.

 

[Amuro]

Actually, the simplest thing to do is hold your army in reserve away from your city, out of the range of Tsunamis. If they happen to then take the City, you counterattack, and destroy the units in your own turn.

Again, you talk as if this were an inevitable strategy. For one, I have never seen the AI use it in any of my .31 or .32 games, and second, I have never used it myself, if only because I don't favor water maps, and if I chose OO, I do so for Hemah and the culture boost, given that OO temples give you the most culture.

I don't see the big issue with a strategy I have never seen, and which I can think of several ways to counter.

Yes but you have to play a MP game to understand what LT Kain is trying to say. ANd hold in reserve an army isn't a stupid idea but each time you do this you retake your city with all the buildings to rebuild so....

 

[PacoDeth]

WOW, I mean WOW! Hold army in reserve? Try to take your own city back? Pretty much rebuild it from the ground up again? Not to mention if your opponent decides to just raze your city, then where does that leave you?

And honestly, you have no business posting your opinion of a characteristic to the game if you have never witnessed it yourself

You're making me want to play a game against you, I'll take Luchuirp, focus on getting OO Cultists for Tsunami and Fireballing Golems, and you can abandon your cities on the coast and leave your units "in reserve". In the mean time, I will just raze all of your outter cities, kill your production, swamp the borders with Tsunami casters and easily summoned 15strength squid creatures for protection. Till I can build up enough force to take whatever is left of your cities inland.

Just because the AI doesnt do it, doesn't mean it can't happen or it won't be a huge problem from a human player. There's alot of things the AI doesn't do that a human player can and will do.

In the game with my friend, he went OO to test out the religion and it's spells, and I went dwarves. With only two cultists, you could reduce the strength of the entire stack of units in a city, and any boats around to about 1 or 2 strength. I then easily rolled up with some fireballing golems and killed every single unit I sent a fireball at. The OO player summoned those squids (is it Kraken?) and thats all he needed to protect the cultists/priests while they safely waterwalked around. If any ships came near, he would just Tsunami them down in health, then attack with either the Kraken, or the Cultist itself!

 

[Lt_Kain]

Don't forget all that it was in a game with 3 others player, i am not playing against AI. The solution "become an Oo religious guy" to counter it is an interesting solution but lets just say that it is not very roleplay.
"To kill this guy, i must become him" long live Chtulu ! Then why we should continue to do war if you agree with my religious ...

Someone in MP can try to take Oo and rush cultist : 3 cultists some boats and warriors will be enough to raze all coastal cities of an enemy

 

[hbar]

Maybe there should be a building like the old coastal fortress that reduces tsunami damage as well as increasing defense from amphibious assaults. Maybe auto-firing on adjacent ships with gunpowder? You'd still get pillaged, but if your fleet was intact, you could at least counterattack with any number of the strats posted here