Cultural Advice Sought

[tetley]

Every time you generate a great scientist, God kills a great artist.

Actually, there's a trick I recently discovered that would have completed this game the 3 turns sooner:

Complete 2 Great People at the same time. i.e. if two GP reach 300/300 on exactly the same turn, you get them both. I don't know if the game increments the counter twice, though. I also don't know for sure if this applies for two cities, i.e. if different cities complete a GP on the same turn. I know if the same city completes 2 GP, it does it. That'll save you a cool 100 GPP.

The Hanging Gardens is important for your trade routes. The value of every single trade route is calculated in large part by the population of your capital. Though I suppose if you're going for cultural win, you might not have all that many trade routes. Also, as CYZ said, it enables you to have more GA specialists.

 

[S.K. Ren]

@tetly: Same city, yes. Multiple cities? No sadly. On my recent almost win on deity I had it lined up for 3 GEs and 2 GS to finish at once and it evaluated my Capital first, gave me my GS and GE then incremented the counter stopping the others from spawning.

Also I've been wondering. People recommended a GE for PT, Cistine, Louvre and one other wonder I'm forgetting but I cant think of where to get them. You can get 1 from HS (Spent on PT) and 1 from Liberty finisher (Spent on Louvre) but the other two? I don't even get Metal Casting till after Archaeology.

 

[CYZ]

@tetly: Same city, yes. Multiple cities? No sadly. On my recent almost win on deity I had it lined up for 3 GEs and 2 GS to finish at once and it evaluated my Capital first, gave me my GS and GE then incremented the counter stopping the others from spawning.

Also I've been wondering. People recommended a GE for PT, Cistine, Louvre and one other wonder I'm forgetting but I cant think of where to get them. You can get 1 from HS (Spent on PT) and 1 from Liberty finisher (Spent on Louvre) but the other two? I don't even get Metal Casting till after Archaeology.

Building stone henge first is a good way, it has GE points.

I wonder, is it possible to spawn a GA, GE, GS and GM all at the same time in one city?

 

[S.K. Ren]

@CYZ: Only problem is that Im ALWAYS running GA specialists so +1 GE ppt vs +3/6/12 GA ppt doesn't work that well. Not to mention whatever city has Oracle/PT will have +3 GS ppt (and this is before modifiers). I just don't see any natural GEs appearing. Maybe from a CS but getting it early enough to matter messes with the optimal policy path.

 

[Tiber4321]

@CYZ Building the Hanging Gardens makes a world of difference for Egypt/cultural. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Murky]

I tried a cultural game as Persia. I was one policy away from CV when I won the DP. I had allied a bunch of city states. A runaway Siam AI built the U.N. What was so weird is that the AI had something like 25000+ gold and could've easily out bought all the cities states just before completing the UN but it didn't.

 

[CYZ]

@CYZ: Only problem is that Im ALWAYS running GA specialists so +1 GE ppt vs +3/6/12 GA ppt doesn't work that well. Not to mention whatever city has Oracle/PT will have +3 GS ppt (and this is before modifiers). I just don't see any natural GEs appearing. Maybe from a CS but getting it early enough to matter messes with the optimal policy path.

You're right ofcourse. I think I wait too long before using specialists.

I suppose you're going to have to hard build at least a few of those wonders. Which you should have time for (I've had plenty of times when there was nothing to build besides wonder i didn't really want).

I suppose if you have a few cities you could put all GE wonders in one city, and get a workshop up there asap to work the specialist slot, not sure if that's optimal though.

 

[Kaosprophet]

You're right ofcourse. I think I wait too long before using specialists.

I suppose you're going to have to hard build at least a few of those wonders. Which you should have time for (I've had plenty of times when there was nothing to build besides wonder i didn't really want).

I suppose if you have a few cities you could put all GE wonders in one city, and get a workshop up there asap to work the specialist slot, not sure if that's optimal though.

In practice, I think trying to juggle it would just end up in failgold more often than it's worth unless you're playing below your level. Something to watch for when the opportunity presents itself, but not something to sweat trying to make happen.

 

[Banman]

I think you'll find that if you can get HG in place, the population boost can be channeled into production as well --> I always get a nice hammer boost that way by focusing on production tiles when I'm cranking out wonders. HG enables the city to keep growing even when production-focused. (plus it helps with GA production)

 

[tetley]

I wonder, is it possible to spawn a GA, GE, GS and GM all at the same time in one city?

It should be theoretically possible, and if you manage to get out 3 in the same turn you will save yourself 300 GPP. That's a pretty sweet deal even if the counter increments 3 times. e.g.

GE on turn 1: 100/100
GS on turn 2: 200/200
GA on turn 3: 300/300
next GP: 400

vs.:
GS on turn 1: 100/100
GE on turn 1: 100/100
GA on turn 1: 100/100
next GP: 400

Your 4th GP will take 400 GPP either way, but if you pop the first three out at the same time you only have to invest 100 GPP for each (300 total), whereas if they come out successively it will take 600 GPP total. That means more Great People and earlier. Earlier GA means earlier landmarks.

 

[orangecape]

You can get all four great people in a single turn in a single city if you want. I did it a few times just for lulz. The game will definitely increment the increasing cost for each one though.

As has been said above though you can't do the same trick over multiple cities, all the GP must be produced in a single city simultaneously.

 

[tetley]

If you pop all 4 at once, you save yourself 600 GPP (100+200+300). That's not a small amount. It's worth some micro to get that. But it would involve un-working some specialists and put them on food tiles instead so as to postpone some Great People, and that would eat into your savings somewhat. And it probably doesn't make sense to postpone GE's or GS's too long so you can get a quicker Great Merchant.

 

[CYZ]

I think for culture victory you're best off going for GA+GE+GM. That's basicly a landmark, wonder and cultural CS ally all at once. the GS is not so needed most of the time. Then again, if you can plan these 4 GP to pop all at the right time so you can use the GS to pop a tech that will free up a Wonder for your GE to rush...

Well, that'd would be some insane micromanagement. Wouldn't be fun for me. Still, perhaps I'll experiment a bit to find out if such a strategy is usefull for a culture victory.

Best way to do it seems: Stonehenge first for GE points, then you need to get library+market+temple asap to be able to work the specialists slots on time. You can still build other wonders in the process, but not too many of one GP type or they will catch up with stonehenge GP generation.

 

[tetley]

Yeah, I wouldn't expect popping all 4 at once to be very common. Not even 3. But 2 should be, and when you can get 3 or 4, the payoff is nice.

I don't find GM's very valuable on large maps. 500 gold in the second half of the game is not that much, and the 30 influence is worth 250 gold.

 

[bhavv]

Every time you generate a great scientist, God kills a great artist.

Please, think of the artists.

Not for me


Link to video.

^^ Emperor difficulty.

Everytime I generate a great scientist, God also gives me a great artist, great engineer, and great merchant

I wonder, is it possible to spawn a GA, GE, GS and GM all at the same time in one city?

Indeed it is, see the video above

 

[DaveMcW]

Everytime I generate a great scientist, God also gives me a great artist, great engineer, and great merchant

Oh no, you killed 3 great artists at once.

 

[bhavv]

I can only do it with 2 cities on Emperor difficulty, never training a single settler or worker in the capital and it requires a very lucky riverside start with marble, lots of food and production and lots of empty grasslands for great person improvements, but you can always use worldbuilder if all you want to do is have some fun with it. I dont bother doing it OCC because I want the Liberty finisher.

On King I can do it with 4 cities, and I didnt try monarch, just went straight up to emperor.

Just build 2-4 cities based on difficulty and spam wonders, making sure that the GP points are kept equal, and get specialist buildings up asap (Temple > Market > University > Workshop > Bank > Windmill etc), and keep the specialist slots micromanaged.

Theres a GP progress information bar at the bottom of the menu which you need to make sure GP production is synced, and obviously just go for a culture win.

I prefer doing it with Sejong because the UA helps you tech faster with all those specialists and settled GPs, and Hwachas provide impenetrable defence.

Just use a couple of archers until then, get barracks / armoury / military academy done plus himeji castle, and just 2-4 hwachas keep you safe for a long time, and upgrade them or rebuild artillery later on.

Maybe you can have the second city build 2 more settlers actually, but thats very slow and you have to get Monument > Colosseum > Library > Temple built in each before acoustics. My first two archers also had to be trained in the second city, no time to make any units in the capital. With 2 cities and enough luxs I skipped colossums as chichen Itza and Notre Dame gave enough happiness.

 

[S.K. Ren]

@tetley: That's all a matter of speed. On slower speeds that 600 gold is immense while on higher speeds that 30 influence while it isn't a lot, still helps when you need to save your money for more expensive things. Also the best way to get an 'early' GM is on a water map to get both Great Lighthouse and Colossus in the same city.

 

[bhavv]

@tetley: That's all a matter of speed. On slower speeds that 600 gold is immense while on higher speeds that 30 influence while it isn't a lot, still helps when you need to save your money for more expensive things. Also the best way to get an 'early' GM is on a water map to get both Great Lighthouse and Colossus in the same city.

Nah you dont need those wonders, they are too much of a waste. Mausoleum + market is enough, later topped up with Notre Dame, Big Ben and Pentagon, plus a bank and stock exchange.

My build order was (requires riverside flat grassland start with marble and some stones):

Monument
Granary
Start Temple of Artemis
Switch to Watermill
Resume Temple of Artemis
Mausoleum
*Rush buy stone works asap
Great Library
Hanging Gardens
Oracle
Pick one of Stonehenge (unlikely by now), Pyramids, Great Wall, or Angkor Wat (this ones the most likely to get). Sync the constuction completion to equalize GS and GE points.
*Rush buy stable if it will give you a production boost (at least 2 pastures), otherwise temple
Market
Hagia Sopia
Chichen Itza
Rush buy or build University
Rush buy or build Workshop
Rush buy Aqueduct
Manage specialist slots during all of this to sync a quad GP pop.
National Epic
Rush buy or build Garden
National College

You can get all that done by around 50 BC - 100 AD with the correct start. National college has to be delayed a lot to get other stuff done, but if playing Sejong you will be fine for tech with your UA. Archers are trained in your second city.

On lower difficulties up to king, you also slot in two settlers somewhere.

Building stone henge first is a good way, it has GE points.

Temple of artemis is better.

 

[Tabarnak]

For the current emperor GOTM(33) i used the capital to generate a great scientist and 2 great engineers. But not every turns. This let this city to grow large enough for Utopia and work landmarks. I didn't build the HG that time, but letting 3 other cities at producing great artists instead right after i bulbed 4 museums from legalism. I have not waited for representation to settle cities but at my big surprise it gave me superior benefits than waiting for this policy probably because i could generate more units and buildings early. With some conquests, i managed to get 800+ cpt which is i think pretty decent. Had 10 cities in the BCs total(4 of mine + 6 puppets).

4 cities is no doubt the sweet spot for optimal culture games and that is for every difficulties. For sure, more you play at high levels less you have chance to conquer so easily and catch every needed wonders.

I didn't build Oracle though. I litterally forgot about this wonder