Cultural Diversity

[regalman]

Hi, I wanted to say that I love this mod and its purpose, and I was thinking that the cultural diversity could be going even further, by replacing, for example, the advisors and era splashes with cultural specific ones, like in the example posted here, where I made the Chinese ones. What do you think?

That's a splendid idea! It would propel this modification to new heights of fame and use!!

 

[TPangolin]

I'm not convinced (maybe I'm just not a big fan of those particular choices).

 

[JFD]

Hi, I wanted to say that I love this mod and its purpose, and I was thinking that the cultural diversity could be going even further, by replacing, for example, the advisors and era splashes with cultural specific ones, like in the example posted here, where I made the Chinese ones. What do you think?

Sure, that could be something that I could consider and implement, but I'm not sure I envy the amount of time or effort it would take to find all the necessary resources. I'll look into it for the current groups, and see how long it takes to get done, before I make my assessment.

 

[Crixler]

So this mod looks like pretty much the greatest thing ever.
Haven't tried it yet, might wait until it's more complete, but I am excited to see it progress.

Here's a potentially neat idea, though I have no idea if it's possible or not: Adding "Random Steppes", "Random Eastern", etc. options to civ selection. 0 A.D. does (or is at least planning to, I think) something like that, and it seems pretty cool.

 

[JFD]

It would certainly be a nice idea, but not possible without making the mod a pseudo-DLC, I expect, which is a bit involved.

Currently, I'm thinking CulDiv needs to be stripped down and re-thought.

The first of these will be the removal of the [intent to do] the Papal States, Japan and HRE groups. These will be separated into a different mod called Piety and Prestige (already in the works), which will form an integral part of SovRev, and which contains within itself special mechanics for the Papacy, Holy Roman Empire, Mandate of Heaven and the Shogunate, as well as the core State Religion component.

I will keep this thread posted on other thoughts as I flesh them out.

 

[JFD]

Culture Groups:

• Arabic - Commercial, Scientific, Spiritual
• Bharata - Innovative, Philosophical, Spiritual
• Central-European - Commercial, Diplomatic, Innovative
• Colonial - Commercial, Industrious, Militaristic
• Eastern-European - Defensive, Expansive, Spiritual
• Graeco-Roman - Expansive, Pagan, Philosophical
• High-American - Administrative, Militaristic, Pagan
• Mandala - Administrative, Diplomatic, Innovative
• Mesopotamic - Administrative, Pagan, Scientific
• Northern-European - Militaristic, Pagan, Seafaring
• Oriental - Defensive, Philosophical, Seafaring
• Pacific - Commercial, Nomadic/Expansive, Seafaring
• Steppe - Expansive, Militaristic, Nomadic
• Sub-Saharan - Commercial, Militaristic, Spiritual
• Tribal-American - Diplomatic, Expansive, Nomadic
• Western-European - Commercial, Industrious, Seafaring
• Unnamed group for the Soviet Union, Mussolini and Hitler, and DJSHenninger's or Viregel's soviet civs - tentatively Socialists - Expansive, Industrious, Scientific

Tech Rates: Each group will have a different tech rate, corresponding to their historical, scientific peak and low. This will hopefully create greater disparity between technological progresses amongst civ groups. These rates will stabilise after a civ has industrialised.

Unique Cultural Traits: Every cultural group possesses inherent qualities that will change the way in which they are played, as significantly as possible. This will, in effect, take the form of a Unique Ability shared between civs, but with the intent that it actively directs, rather than passively motivates.

Shared Cultural Traits: In addition to their unique traits, each group is assigned three Cultural Traits, which offer shared benefits. Think Civ IV's traits, but for the cultural groups.

• Administrative
• Commercial
• Defensive
• Diplomatic
• Expansive
• Industrious
• Innovative
• Militaristic
• Nomadic
• Pagan
• Philosophical
• Scientific
• Seafaring
• Spiritual

 

[Krajzen]

[*]Unnamed group for the Soviet Union, Mussolini and Hitler, and DJSHenninger's or Viregel's soviet civs - tentatively Socialists - Expansive, Industrious, Scientific
[/LIST]

Maybe simply Totalitarian? Fits and remains ambiguous while don't hiding the fact that we are speaking about... abnormal states

 

[Viregel]

Wait, I'm confirmed to be doing the Soviet civs now? Damn. Better make a start then...

 

[JFD]

Maybe simply Totalitarian? Fits and remains ambiguous while don't hiding the fact that we are speaking about... abnormal states

Brilliant. Thank you. I've amended the OP with that name.

Wait, I'm confirmed to be doing the Soviet civs now? Damn. Better make a start then...

Well, it would keep the group from being exclusively composed of my civs

 

[Crixler]

One thing I'm wondering is if civs that aren't part of any of those culture groups (fictional civs, or brand new ones that simply aren't added yet, etc) would be more or less balanced compared to those that are part of a culture group.

The new group list looks good!

 

[JFD]

It's difficult to say, but mod authors will be able to add support internally where I do not (but I will try and include as much support myself as possible).

 

[TPangolin]

I love all the Cultural groupings bar the Colonial one. Maybe it's just me - but I dont necessarily see civs like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Philippines really adhering to the whole Militaristic sort of image, especially when combined with those other traits. I can definitely see them fitting into a Diplomatic/Scientific/Commercial setting though. Diplomacy especially for Canadian and Aus diplomats, alongside SA's peacekeeping efforts and Philippines' UA with Rizal as a leaderhead. Scientific in the sense that Canada, Australia and NZ each have an extremely high amount of inventions and Nobel Laureates per capita and Commercial to suit the high amounts of Tourism and trade that all these countries receive, alongside Rizal's trade based UA.

Don't get me wrong - Commercial/Industrious/Militaristic works fantastically for America, Gran Colombia, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Buccaneers, Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay, Boers, Yucatan and Chile but I think a Diplomatic/Scientific/Commercial would be far better suiting to Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Philippines, Rhodesia, California and perhaps Union US.

 

[RawSasquatch]

I agree with you on the Colonials for sure (though I could also see Rhodesia as Commercial/Industrious/Militaristic, especially before I could see them as Diplomatic). Also, where would North Africans go? Would they still get labeled as "Sub-Saharan", or smushed into Arab, or what?

 

[JFD]

I agree with you on the Colonials for sure (though I could also see Rhodesia as Commercial/Industrious/Militaristic, especially before I could see them as Diplomatic). Also, where would North Africans go? Would they still get labeled as "Sub-Saharan", or smushed into Arab, or what?

I do not agree. Industrious should not be substituted mainly because of its scarcity, and Militaristic suits modern nations with highly trained, professional standing armies perfectly well, even where those armies don't see active engagement. Plus 'merica is the predominant party within the Colonial group, and concessions should be made to lean that fact in its favour. The Diplomatic trait will mostly be to do with City-States (options with other civs are limited), anyway, so the synergy with Canada and the Philippines are not actually as it might seem.

For North Africans it's going to be a case by case basis, I think; as it is with most civs that don't easily fit into one of the pre-defined groups, or which conflict with the theme of the group (Lithuania and Armenia for instance). Morocco and other Islamic civs fit easily with the other Arabic civs, but civs like Carthage and the Garamantes are better off with Graeco-Roman and... suggestions for the latter?

Also, now that DJSHenniger has brought his civs to CivFanatics, support for his civs will be included. However, I'm a bit unsure of where Pakistan and Azerbaijan might fit.

 

[COF]

Where do you think you'll put Persia?
Graeco-Roman?

 

[JFD]

Mesopotamic. Fits perfectly; the Persian Empire was one of the best administered empires in history; unlike the Roman which was split in half and collapsed because of overextension. Missing out on expansive is a shame, though. I'm wondering if I should substitute Scientific for Expansive, but I should probably figure what Scientific does before making any final decisions. Oh, and plus it has to cross Mesopotamia to get to the Graeco-Roman world

Incidentally, I've changed the Tribal-Americans to Diplomatic, Nomadic, Spiritual, for now, Seafaring is now Maritime to give me a bit more freedom, I may want to give the Totalitarian civs Militaristic and it'd be nice to fit a third Defensive group somewhere (only trait assigned twice). The best I can come up with is Sub-saharan, but I'm not sure which of their traits would be best substituted.

For reference, Defensive: These Culture Groups have doubled effectiveness for their defensive buildings when at war and any captured cities of theirs are in resistance for as long as they remain at war with the offending power.

It is the least engaging of the shared traits, but with defense-orientation I don't think there's really any way around it, and don't feel it's that bit a problem. The elicits the right about of impenetrability for me, though.

 

[COF]

Missing out on expansive is a shame, though. I'm wondering if I should substitute Scientific for Expansive, but I should probably figure what Scientific does before making any final decisions.

Nah, I think that Scientific fits perfectly here.

 

[JFD]

Hi, I wanted to say that I love this mod and its purpose, and I was thinking that the cultural diversity could be going even further, by replacing, for example, the advisors and era splashes with cultural specific ones, like in the example posted here, where I made the Chinese ones. What do you think?

Did you have any other splash screens that could be used? I have a few possibilities: https://imgur.com/a/dlTV2.

If anyone is interested in helping find different era splash screens for the different culture groups, that would make this a more profitable endeavour. Because of the difficulty in finding suitable artwork, it probably would be best to trim down the list for this intent; e.g. Mesopotamic and Arabic civs would get the same splash screens, which is sensible anyway.

If anyone does find any, please make a note of the author so that they can be afforded proper credit, too, and regard any explicit withholdings of usage.

And, of course, they don't all have to be cities. A nice picture of the Golden Liberty would do for Eastern Renaissance, I think.

 

[COF]

Did you have any other splash screens that could be used? I have a few possibilities: https://imgur.com/a/dlTV2.

If anyone is interested in helping find different era splash screens for the different culture groups, that would make this a more profitable endeavour. Because of the difficulty in finding suitable artwork, it probably would be best to trim down the list for this intent; e.g. Mesopotamic and Arabic civs would get the same splash screens, which is sensible anyway.

If anyone does find any, please make a note of the author so that they can be afforded proper credit, too, and regard any explicit withholdings of usage.

And, of course, they don't all have to be cities. A nice picture of the Golden Liberty would do for Eastern Renaissance, I think.

http://imgur.com/a/VfJ6e
I found some here, sadly forgot the authors. But I found almost all of them on DevianArt (most of the stuff was furry hentai but hey, I found stuff).
A google reverse search will probably solve that issue.

 

[JFD]

http://imgur.com/a/VfJ6e
I found some here, sadly forgot the authors. But I found almost all of them on DevianArt (most of the stuff was furry hentai but hey, I found stuff).
A google reverse search will probably solve that issue.

Woah, those are fantastic! Thanks. I'll reverse search them, no problem.