Cultural Victory Elimination Thread (no SS)

[enKage]

I think last votes gave me no choice. I wanted to upvote Georgia, but fuinally:
Alex: 6-3
This is a warmonger, that benefits from constant war with half odf the world, pillage economy + conquest is his strength and it ends up you will finish science victory earlier even when you focus on culture victory.
Genghis: 4+1
This is OTOH one of the best civs in game and the beast early warmonger (mining > wheel and CoL->foreign trade is all youu need to take the whole continent). You can build theatres alone or use chariot tanks and cavalry tanks to take them from neighbours before you even unlock drama. Unlike other warmongers Genghis have fantastic transition from ealy conquest to any kind of victory, including tourism.
There are a bunch of civs left with no unique culture improvement, no strong bonuses at all, weak at early war, so I don;t see a reason for another anti Mongol crusde yet. It would be a joke finishing before Phoenicia, Ele/England, Fred, Gandhi, Poland, Inca, Indonesia, Mali, Cree, Arabia and especially Scotland and Netherlands. All this civs have no cards for CV. Genghis has one (shared with Aztecs and Sumeria) - dirty cheap theatres from neighbours and is stronger civ in genral than most mentioned

Alexander/Macedon [3]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [12]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [17]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [9]
Frederick/Germany [12]
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [5]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [12]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [17]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [9]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [18]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [18]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [4]
Saladin/Arabia [15]
Seondeok/Korea [7]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [21]
Wilhelmina/Netherlands [16]

 

[Amrunril]

The Inca (9 +1) are an incredibly powerful generalist civ. Their infrastructure bonuses can put you on a good path to any victory type, including culture.
The Mapuche (17 - 3) have a strong, though situational, UI. Unfortunately, the rest of their bonuses are rather weak and disjointed. If this were an effective civ overall, culture would be a strong direction for them, but as it stands, I think you'd be better off with a strong generalist civ, or even one focused in a different direction.

Alexander/Macedon [3]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [17]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [9]
Frederick/Germany [12]
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [5]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [12]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [10]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [18]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [18]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [4]
Saladin/Arabia [15]
Seondeok/Korea [7]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [21]
Wilhelmina/Netherlands [16]

 

[hhhhhh]

For the record, the current fastest deity standard speed culture victory of Magnificent Catherine is T72 (on a Lakes map revealed to the player with Kandy and Hong Kong), and since it's done on streaming the end game is a little sloppy. Now I'm hoping someone can do a T65 culture victory with her.

Not sure who to downvote tbh, but here we go. I second the comment that we need to copy upvote/downvote out of the list. The list at the end is readily copiable to the next voter.

Qin Shi Huang/China [19] (18+1) You can win culture with just Great Wall, and you also get bonus on early wonders. And eureka/inspiration are good.

Saladin/Arabia [12] (15-3) Good faith generation, but not many culture victory related bonus other than that.

Alexander/Macedon [3]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [17]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [9]
Frederick/Germany [12]
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [5]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [12]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [10]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [18]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [4]
Saladin/Arabia [12]
Seondeok/Korea [7]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [21]
Wilhelmina/Netherlands [16]

 

[Hokie Fan]

Alexander/Macedon [6]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [17]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [9]
Frederick/Germany [12]
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [4]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [12]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [10]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [18]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [4]
Saladin/Arabia [12]
Seondeok/Korea [7]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [18]
Wilhelmina/Netherlands [16]

Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [18] (21-18). I don't believe Canada should be second in the rankings right now or anywhere near Russia, Pericles or some of the other good civs. When I played Canada, I spammed about 10 national parks with the Mountie and the impact on my overall tourism was marginal. Yes, you get cheap national parks, but it comes in the late-ish game only after you've already had a painful early game (Canada has no useful early game bonuses in my opinion. The lack of being able to be targeted by a surprise war can be a malus because it takes away your ability to take AI cities without grievance penalties). Maybe my game was the exception, but even with 10 national parks as Canada, those national parks only made up about 10% of my total tourists. The problem with a national park spam strategy (and thus Canada) is that there are no policy cards or wonders that provide massive boosts to national parks. Cristo, for example, makes two seaside resorts just as good or better than one national park. Likewise, for GWs, there are two policy cards that offer good boosts to both yields. For national parks, there's nothing.

Pericles/Greece [19] (18+1). Theater square are the meat and potatoes of most tourism games and Pericles gets them cheaper, which is fantastic for culture in the early game. I don't think much needs to be said about his late game leader ability because it will always be a huge boost to culture allowing you to race through the end game civics. With both an early game and late game bonus, Pericles should be one of the top civs.

 

[Jewelrunna]

Alexander/Macedon [3]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [18]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [9]
Frederick/Germany [12]
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [2]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [12]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [10]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [19]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [4]
Saladin/Arabia [12]
Seondeok/Korea [7]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [18]
Wilhelmina/Netherlands [16]

Cyrus/Persia [18] (17 + 1): Boosting Cyrus again, because they're just far too good at Culture Victories. Really they're just as good, if not better at the CV than Russia. The TL;DR version of the argument I made in my last post goes as follows: the Pairidaeza is the single best Tourism boosting tool in the game, and supercharges all the assets by which you win a Culture Victory.

Genghis Khan/Mongolia [2] (5 - 3): Why is Genghis still here? I get that there's some trade route memes you can go for as Mongolia, but that's even more niche than Tomyris getting faith from Kurgans or Victoria using her extra trade routes or faster-built IZs to help spam wonders. Neither of those two gets strong bonuses to Tourism, but it's at least more than Genghis. And I say that as someone who's won a Culture Victory as Genghis: you really don't have much going for you.

And even though I'm not voting for them (because I want Cyrus to win), why exactly is Scotland so low? They get Tourism from the Golf Course (which also boosts Appeal, which is really important for a Culture Victory), and their bonuses towards Production and earning Great Engineers helps them wonder-spam They're actually pretty good at Culture Victories all things considered! They're at least better than Korea, Macedon, Nubia, India, and others. I really don't understand why they've been dogpiled so!

 

[Weraptor]

Seondeok/Korea [4] (7-3) Not much going on for Korea on the cultural front.
Cyrus/Persia [19] (18+1) Conquer a lot of space and fill it up with theatres, holy sites, unique palaces and national parks. Outstanding move.

Alexander/Macedon [3]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [19]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [9]
Frederick/Germany [12]
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [2]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [12]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [10]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [19]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [4]
Saladin/Arabia [12]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [18]
Wilhelmina/Netherlands [16]

 

[Francel]

Alexander/Macedon [3]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [19]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [9]
Frederick/Germany [9] (12-3) - Some of the city states are next to useless, but there are other city states for which conquest is the last thing you want. An extra military card? Are there any military cards that help a lot with culture wins? I'm scratching my head. Maybe limes? (+100% walls) Their one other perk - the extra district - might help you get a faster theater square a handful of times. However, Germany already wants to make industrial zones, commercial zones, and encampments, plus competition for any other districts you want. The population cap isn't the only barrier. Building everything you want still takes time.
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [2]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria [15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [13] (12+1) - If you saw my post in the screenshot thread, you'll know I've been playing Poland. Maybe it's recency bias on my part, but having a military card slot auto converted to wild card slot is "almost" as good as Greece's Plato Republic perk, unless you're in a state of war, of course. Furthermore, their relics get a boost. You could do a lot worse than going for reliquaries, Mont St Michel, and monastic isolation with Poland. Culture bombing may not be especially helpful, but it sure is fun. Sukiennice makes your international trade routes, which you'll certainly want for culture victory, just a bit better.
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [10]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [19]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [4]
Saladin/Arabia [12]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [18]
Wilhelmina/Netherlands [16]

 

[JesseS]

Eleanor/England [6] (9-3) As noted before, a loyalty bonus from having great works isn't the same as a bonus towards generating great works. There are minimal cultural bonuses in England's kit, just a cheap harbor and some extra strategics to sell to the AI.
Pericles/Greece [20] (19+1) Pericles is a cultural powerhouse. The acropolis is half-price, with an easy +2 adjacency, and extra envoys. Pericles then turns all of these extra envoys directly into absurd mid to late game culture. The extra wildcard policy slot is just generally useful too.

Alexander/Macedon [3]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [19]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Frederick/Germany [9]
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [2]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [13]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [10]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [20]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [4]
Saladin/Arabia [12]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [18]
Wilhelmina/Netherlands [16]

 

[Hogimus]

Alexander/Macedon [3]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [19]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Frederick/Germany [9]
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [2]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [13]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [10]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [20]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1] (4-1) As others have pointed out, no real bonus to culture.
Saladin/Arabia [12]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19] (18+1) Most definitely should end up near the top. National park spam is crazy good, especially if you've planned for it from the beginning, and despite a previous post implying there are no bonuses to National Parks, there is in the form of the "Wish you were here" era dedication, which doubles national park tourism. Because parks give era score every time you build one you are guaranteed golden ages after you get mounties. Also, @Hokie Fan , 10 parks seems like you aren't building enough parks. If you average 10-12 cities in a play through, that's barely even a park per city. I usually end up with at least 25 parks, at 2-4 parks per city. I mean, why wouldn't you? That's why they have tundra bonuses and hockey rinks, so you can settle in tundra mid-game to build cities just for national parks.
Wilhelmina/Netherlands [16]

 

[Zaarin]

Pachacuti [11] (10 + 1) I don't think he's top tier, but he doesn't deserve to be so low yet. Mountains are ideal for national parks, and his strong production bonuses give him an edge for grabbing valuable wonders (particularly Machu Picchu, which means those same mountains are now giving him adjacency bonuses to Theater Squares).

Frederick [6] (9 - 3) Frederick's production bonuses and extra districts could be used building wonders and Theater Squares, but he gets better synergy out of using it on war and science.

Alexander/Macedon [3]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [19]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Frederick/Germany [6]
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [2]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [13]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [11]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [20]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1]
Saladin/Arabia [12]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[JJOne]

Genghis Khan/Mongolia [3](2+1) A strong domination civ can pillage its way to culture victory. A whole lot of improvements give pillage faith to buy rock bands or national parks. And the khan's cavalry is tougher than any other, so can pillage more...
The same could be said about Alexander, except he sort of needs to conquer some cities to get that hellenistic fusion going..
Cyrus/Persia [13] (16-3) taking him down a bit, since the pairiwhatever is not nearly as nice as the great wall of China.

Alexander/Macedon [3]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [13]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Frederick/Germany [6]
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [3]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [13]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [11]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [20]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1]
Saladin/Arabia [12]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[fredrikslicer]

Genghis Khan/Mongolia [3]
Cyrus/Persia [13]

Alexander/Macedon [3]
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [14] 13+1 = 14 Does deserve to stick around for a while with regards to his Civ Ability which generate culture as well as his unique improvement
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Frederick/Germany [6]
Gandhi/India [12]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [0 - Eliminated] 3-3 Pillage as a mechanic for Cultural Victory is one of those things one does to wing a victory diverting existing gains for a win but not anything all that compared to the ones that have actuall culture and tourism related qualities otherwise Shaka would still be in the race since he can do a lot with military as well Eliminated
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [13]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [19]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [11]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [20]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1]
Saladin/Arabia [12]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

Moderator Action: Corrected scores in brackets --NZ

 

[xaiviax]

Did Canada got from 18 to 20 in post#29? (Checked for missed point correction, didn't see one.)

Alexander/Macedon [0 Eliminated] (3-3) Not saying much, but would rather have any of the other single digit civs for culture.
Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [14]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Frederick/Germany [6]
Gandhi/India [12]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [13]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [20] (19+1) All the multiple above stated reasons, plus built in advantages in the Nobel competitions.
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [11]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [20]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1]
Saladin/Arabia [12]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[EmJayLambert]

Downvote: Saladin [12 - 3 = 9] too many other things going on to worry about Culture & Tourism.

Upvote: Pericles [20 + 1 = 21] so much to like about this guy's Culture game. Acropolis for more GWAMs for Tourism, and the extra Wildcard slot will really help.

Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [14]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Frederick/Germany [6]
Gandhi/India [12]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [13]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [20]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [11]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [21]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1]
Saladin/Arabia [9]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[Dantesedge]

I apologize that I wrote so much in my last post. I was trying to explain why I thought Jadwiga, Tamar, and Lautaro were about equal as the "back up" cultural civ and why I ultimately chose Tamar to upvote, but by writing next to Jadwiga and Lautaro as well, must have created a lot of clutter. My apologies.

Jadwiga/Poland [14] (13+1) I'm going to throw a vote to Jadwiga tonight only because I'm surprised that she was targeted this early. Yes, her cultural strategy is pretty narrow... but at least she has a cultural strategy unlike some of the other civs left on this list. If the cards fall correctly, it's a pretty powerful cultural strategy too (think Khmer-Lite). I hope she sticks around a bit longer.

Frederick/Germany [3] (6-3) Come the Hansa, he can build wonders and TS a little quicker than other civs that don't already have a bonus to culture-based production... and that's it.

Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [14]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Frederick/Germany [3]
Gandhi/India [12]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [14]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [20]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [11]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [21]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1]
Saladin/Arabia [9]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[Baigan]

Frederick/Germany [0] (3-3) ELIMINATED Using your extra district slot for a TS is possibly the most marginal boost to CV that any civ has.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [18] (17+1) The OG for CV. Not as good as more recent contenders but deserves plenty of upvotes.

Fixed Cyrus.

Amanitore/Nubia [12]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [17]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Gandhi/India [12]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [14]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [20]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [18]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [11]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [21]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1]
Saladin/Arabia [9]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[bbbt]

Amanitore/Nubia [9] 12 - 3 - I'm assuming Nubia has been hanging in here based on general overall strength and the district discount, but she doesn't have anything specific for culture victories.
Cyrus/Persia [18] 17 + 1 - The OG of alternate approach culture victories with the Pairidaeza ability to boost the appeal of neighboring seaside resorts sky high (and contributing it's own culture). Maybe not what he once was in today's faith based economies (and rock band victories), but still a significant cultural force - and the Pairidaeza can create a lot of faith generating tiles with earth goddess as well.


Amanitore/Nubia [9]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [18]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Gandhi/India [12]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [14]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [20]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [18]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [11]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [21]
Peter/Russia [23]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1]
Saladin/Arabia [9]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Peter/Russia [24] (23+1) Is having more GWAMs than you have spaces for really a bad thing for cultural victory? Of course not. The new Work Ethic is also fantastic, since you can build theatre squares and their buildings, as well as all the great cultural wonders, and that's mostly because of Work Ethic of course, but Russia can leverage that belief like no other. Tundra forests are high on appeal, and with Mother Russia, you'll have a huge swath of territory for national parks. Top it off with a huge faith pool to buy waves of rock stars to finish it off.

Saladin/Arabia [6] (9-3) Arabia is an amazing civ for 4 out of 5 victories. Mamluks and Grandmaster's Chapel for Dom, madrasas and religious bonuses for science, religion is self-explanatory, and now pagoda spam for diplo. Culture is just where they don't shine, and that's fine.

Amanitore/Nubia [9]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [18]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Gandhi/India [12]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [14]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [20]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [18]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [11]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [21]
Peter/Russia [24]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1]
Saladin/Arabia [6]
Seondeok/Korea [4]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Peter/Russia [24]
Saladin/Arabia [6]
Amanitore/Nubia [9]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [18]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [15]
Eleanor/England [6]
Gandhi/India [12]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [14]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [20]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [18]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [11]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [21]
Peter/Russia [24]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1]
Saladin/Arabia [6]
Seondeok/Korea [5=4+1] Why is this one at 4? Shall be at 40 if Canada has such many points.
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16=19-3] Negative guy shall go first.

Question: I remember many people claiming Tomyris being overwhelmingly strong in every aspect of the game, and they claim that they have "already know" this since 2016.

Where is she? I can't find her.

 

[TCBB]

Wilhelmina got lost, again.

Seondeok/Korea [6] (5+1) For once I agree with Lily. Seondeok always gets voted down very fast in these threads, even though she is unambiguously the best Civ in the game. I suspect it’s because people think she is too powerful, therefore they don’t enjoy playing her, therefore they take out their anger here via downvotes. Anyway: Korea’s unbelievable science output definitely translates into culture victory. You get super fast access to Flight and to Radio; you get first pick of any tech-tree wonders, including Eiffel Tower; and you get other generally good bonuses tied to the tech tree much faster, for example high production from Apprenticeship/Industralisation. Much the same can be said about Scotland, too, though his bonus obviously isn’t as powerful early doors as the Seowon.

Eleanor/France [12] (15-3) I’ve always considered both Eleanors to be among the weakest Civs in the game. Freleanor is obviously better at cultural victory than Engleanor, but she’s still not amazing. France’s base kit essentially revolves around wonders (the Chateau is weak, IMO, and too situational); but wonders are not a huge source of tourism anyway, and France’s bonus is only tied to certain eras. At least Catherine (BQ) can use her powerful spies to steal gold or great works, both of which can aid a culture victory; Freleanor has nothing in this department except a loyalty gimmick. Engleanor should obviously be eliminated first, but Freleanor shouldn’t be far behind.

Amanitore/Nubia [9]
Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
Catherine/France (Mag) [20]
Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
Cyrus/Persia [18]
Dido/Phoenicia [16]
Eleanor/France [12]
Eleanor/England [6]
Gandhi/India [12]
Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
Gitarja/Indonesia [16]
Gorgo/Greece [16]
Hojo Tokimune/Japan [17]
Jadwiga/Poland [14]
Jayavarman/Khmer [18]
John Curtin/Australia [11]
Kristina/Sweden [20]
Kupe/Maori [17]
Lautaro/Mapuche [14]
Mathias Corvinus/Hungary [16]
Menelik/Ethiopia [20]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [18]
Montezuma/Aztec [13]
Pachacuti/Inca [11]
Pedro/Brazil [17]
Pericles/Greece [21]
Peter/Russia [24]
Poundmaker/Cree [12]
Qin Shi Huang/China [19]
Robert the Bruce/Scotland [1]
Saladin/Arabia [6]
Seondeok/Korea [6]
Tamar/Georgia [16]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [18]
Trajan/Rome [16]
Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16]
Wilhelmina/Netherlands [16]