Culture...

AnyKeyz

Chieftain
Joined
May 7, 2007
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Good day

In my Beyond the sword games, the CPU will often win on me the last turn before my space victory or a few turns before my domination victory

Culture victory is the only winning type I haven't experimented. I read tutorials regarding how to win a cultural game (get liberalism first, go the radio, mass media, decrease all bars except Culture).

I never raise my culture bar. How can you follow other civs in techs without Science to the max.

Culture is a complete mystery to me (except for the monument (french word) that are useful at the beginning of a new game).

What is my question ? I don't know, I just don't know how to use the culture slider efficiently
 
culture slider usually isn't good unless you have nothing left to research for culture. One reason is that for cultural victory you only need high culture in 3 cities. That means in every city BUT those three your commerce is being wasted.

Here is a some simple strategies for culture...

GET CULTURAL BUILDINGS. give them pretty high building priority for your cultural centers.
Go for wonders. But not too much in your capital. If you just have 1 or 2 in your capital they make it to 25000 pretty easily, because your capital buildings pumps out 4 culture from turn 1.

3 cities should reach 25000 about the same time. So build units and other practical things in your capital while you build wonders in other cities. Any culture above 25000 is a waste.

Don't sacrifice tech for culture until very late. Liberalism gives you +100% culture with free speech. You lose out on culture AND tech if you slow yourself down in getting this.
Likewise there are modern buildings and wonders that give fantastic culture(broadcast towers and wonders), if you weren't able to get enough medieval buildings, or were in a hostile environment so you had to keep up in military tech and missed out on cultural buildings.
A late cultural win is still much earlier than space race, and is probably much safer than a rushed cultural victory.

Religions are cultural boons, if you get 3-4+ you are in good shape(another reason why tech stays important until liberalism, grabbing religions). Cathedrals give +50% culture. You need 3-4 temples to be able to build one, so you have to make sure you do that.

When you are on the home stretch go into super culture mode. Stop all research, build army for defense if needed. Your 3 main cities produce culture with hammers, and THIS is when you use your GNP for culture(and gold), and set all specialist to artists. If you have universal suffrage keep in mind you can always use gold to rush cultural buildings or wonders in cities that need them. If you got lots of early culture buildings and religions, you can skip broadway etc. and go into super culture mode earlier.

Great artists and great engineers are very good for culture. You still might want a great scientist for teching. I think great prophets aren't that useful, although they are not horrible as you can build the religion wonder, which only gives +4 culture and +1 GP, but if you get a large amount of money for the religion wonder it equals out. Merchants are the worst. So here's a list of great people you should get.

1-2 scientists, academies give culture and boost research, or rush to liberalism.
1 great prophet, some culture + money.
Many great engineers and great artists. Engineers are better midgame, artists are better late game(the great work rushes to a victory quicker than a wonder's culture would)
0 great merchants, I think.
Keep in mind, you can still use 1(maybe 3) specialists for a wonder age to good use. So you don't have to be SO careful about avoiding merchants, prophets, and scientists, like if you want/can build the colossus, go for it. And one merchant in a city with all the financial buildings(capital) never hurts.

So basically cultural victory is simpler than you think. Build buildings that make culture, and be smart about developing culture equally in teh cities. Everything else is mostly the same. Dont worry about the slider, just go as normal with using it for science.
 
I never raise my culture bar. How can you follow other civs in techs without Science to the max.

You can't. But why do you need to? Just make sure you've got enough troops and enough friends so that you aren't likely to get invaded, and you are fine. And because at that point all your other cities are "idle", you can focus them on troop production if necessary.

One of the things that's semi-unique about Cultural (it can also be true for Diplomacy) is that you don't have to be winning to win with it. Sounds counter-intuitive, and it is, but it's true. You can slide down the points scale, you can tank your research, and it doesn't matter, because points and research aren't relevant to your situation.

What is my question ? I don't know, I just don't know how to use the culture slider efficiently

You don't really want to change it until you've got all the tech you need to get. That can vary depending which strategy you're going for. Personally I prefer the "as little as possible" tech research system, so I stop after getting Democracy. Other people prefer to go on to Radio, and others prefer to focus on getting Corporations. All of those will work, it's just a matter of how you want to play it.

Bh
 
I'd suggest that there are lots of variables to consider - and several ways to pull off a Cultural win, so best not to follow a single 'cookie cutter' strategy. I'd recommend to keep reading strategy guides and demonstration games (e.g. in the succession games forum) for ideas.

3 cities should reach 25000 about the same time. So build units and other practical things in your capital while you build wonders in other cities. Any culture above 25000 is a waste.

Note that this will vary depending upon game speed; 25,000:culture: is Legendary at Quick speed, 50,000:culture: at Normal speed, etc.
 
Good day to you, too, AnyKeyz!

Culture is generated through two ways that are very similar.

1) You get flat culture rates. Monuments give you +1 culture, Libraries give you +3 culture, etc.* Specialists give you culture (which can be boosted by building a wonder.)

*Note, there is a bug in the current version of BtS (and maybe others) where the buildings don't display how much flat culture they generate when you are building them. Once you've build the building, however, it shows you how much culture it is producing in the city info screen. This is very annoying.

2) You get % culture rates. Cathedrals are the most common building here and grant a nice +50% bonus, here. Though there are others. Broadway, Broadcast Towers, etc. And as mentioned above, free speech nets you 100% bonus to culture in all cities.

Levgre makes some good points, but I'm going to pick on him a little bit. (Please don't get too mad at me, Levgre. ;) )

culture slider usually isn't good unless you have nothing left to research for culture. One reason is that for cultural victory you only need high culture in 3 cities. That means in every city BUT those three your commerce is being wasted.

This is mostly true, though not entirely. The Colosseum and Theatre generate bonus happiness in cities if you raise your culture bar up. This can be a nice way to combat unhappiness for whatever reason, though usually doesn't help all that much because it's usually only one city with a few unhappy people, rather than a few cities with 1 unhappy person each.


GET CULTURAL BUILDINGS. give them pretty high building priority for your cultural centers.
Go for wonders. But not too much in your capital. If you just have 1 or 2 in your capital they make it to 25000 pretty easily, because your capital buildings pumps out 4 culture from turn 1.

3 cities should reach 25000 about the same time. So build units and other practical things in your capital while you build wonders in other cities. Any culture above 25000 is a waste.

Ideally you'd want all 3 cities to hit legendary culture at the same turn. This won't happen, but it should be your target. Usually I find that I have 1 city hits legendary culture very early, (typically my capital) and I have two cities that take about another 20-40 turns afterwards to hit Legendary culture. If one of the last 2 cities are significantly closer than the other, I'll use my great artist (that I've been saving) to make a great work in the lower of the two cities.

Don't sacrifice tech for culture until very late. Liberalism gives you +100% culture with free speech. You lose out on culture AND tech if you slow yourself down in getting this.
Likewise there are modern buildings and wonders that give fantastic culture(broadcast towers and wonders), if you weren't able to get enough medieval buildings, or were in a hostile environment so you had to keep up in military tech and missed out on cultural buildings.
A late cultural win is still much earlier than space race, and is probably much safer than a rushed cultural victory.

Religions are where your true cultural bonus comes from, if you get 3-4+ you are in good shape(another reason why tech stays important until liberalism, grabbing religions). Cathedrals give +50% culture. You need 3-4 temples to be able to build one, so you have to make sure you do that.

Cathedrals are a bit weird. I think I have them figured out, but I could be wrong. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. To build the first Hindu Cathedral, you need to have built 3 Hindu Temples. To build your 2nd Hindu Cathedral, you need to have built 4 Hindu Temples . Etc. This is why a Spiritual leader is superior to a creative leader when it comes to winning a cultural victory. Each religion you have nets you 1 culture per turn. If you can grab 3 religions, and spread the religions to all cities in your empire, that's 3 culture per turn before multipliers (as opposed to 2 culture per turn before multipliers with Creative.)

I'll say it again. Spiritual is greater than Creative. With Spiritual you should have no problem founding 2 to 4 religions throughout the game. Another bonus is you can produce missionaries in you high production cities really fast, and spread your religion(s) to your newly founded cities for 1 culture per turn per religion, negating the need to build a monument in a fresh city.

Creative = 2 culture per turn
Spiritual = 1 culture per turn per religion, + access to more religious buildings (each temple is worth +1 culture and each cathedral is worth +50% culture.)

When you are on the home stretch go into super culture mode. Stop all research, build army for defense if needed. Your 3 main cities produce culture with hammers, and THIS is when you use your GNP for culture(and gold), and set all specialist to artists. If you have universal suffrage keep in mind you can always use gold to rush cultural buildings or wonders in cities that need them. If you got lots of early culture buildings and religions, you can skip broadway etc. and go into super culture mode earlier.

Definitely good advice.

Sometimes you will generate more culture in your last 50-100 turns of the game than rest of the game. If you do it properly, you get a TON of culture near the end of the game.

Great artists and great engineers are very good for culture. You still might want a great scientist for teching. I think great prophets aren't that useful, although they are not horrible as you can build the religion wonder, which only gives +4 culture and +1 GP, but if you get a large amount of money for the religion wonder it equals out. Merchants are the worst. So here's a list of great people you should get.

1-2 scientists, academies give culture and boost research, or rush to liberalism.
1 great prophet, some culture + money.
Many great engineers and great artists. Engineers are better midgame, artists are better late game(the great work rushes to a victory quicker than a wonder's culture would)
0 great merchants, I think.
Keep in mind, you can still use 1(maybe 3) specialists for a wonder age to good use. So you don't have to be SO careful about avoiding merchants, prophets, and scientists, like if you want/can build the colossus, go for it. And one merchant in a city with all the financial buildings(capital) never hurts.

Great Merchants, while not the most ideal great person for a culture win, can still be useful. Remember that you probably won't be getting up to biology, thus food will be short. The one extra food can sometimes help a city get that extra one size it needs to have that one extra artist specialist. Though a great artist > all other great people, a great merchant isn't worthless if you just so happen to get one.

I usually save one great engineer for the Statue of Liberty. The Statue of Liberty = 1 free great specialist in each city on the continent. Which means +4* culture per turn for your culture cities from the artists, or +2 production per turn for your other cities from the engineers.

*or +6 (see below)

So basically cultural victory is simpler than you think. Build buildings that make culture, and be smart about developing culture equally in teh cities. Everything else is mostly the same. Dont worry about the slider, just go as normal with using it for science.

That's how I won my first few cultural victories. I didn't even adjust my cultural slider. I just built culture, culture, and culture!

One piece of advice you should have is to think about how your civics and world wonders work together. Representation + Free Speech + ???* + Mercantilism + Organized Religion with the Statue of Liberty + Ankgkor Wat + The Sistine Chapel. This combination is very powerful. You net +2 Free Specialist per city (on the continent with the statue) and all of those Free Specialist generate a BONUS +3 beakers and +2 culture, each. So just with that alone, you can have 2 free priests that produce 2 hammers, 1 gold, 3 beakers, +2 culture, and +3 great person points each. All of these bonuses are before multipliers. Now start adding in your normal specialists you will put in those cities, and you're starting to have something that resembles a specialist economy that is helping you to achieve a cultural victory at the same time!

*You don't need Caste System, though it can help at times. Here's why you probably won't need it: In the cities where you are going to be building your culture up, you will have lots of culture buildings. Thus you will have lots of artists specialists slots available, and shouldn't hit the cap, or ever if you do, you can still use priests specialists for just a bit less culture.

If you want to try for an easier culture win, try playing as Isabella of Spain. She starts with Fishing and Mysticism. These starting techs can really propel you to dominating with religion. I once played a Monarch game on a small map where I founded all 7 religions in my main city because I had two coastal fish that I was able to abuse for commerce right away.

Also her being expansive (+2 health per city) is HUGE for a culture win, as you will usually have tons of religion, thus tons of happy people, and most likely only be limited by health. This +2 health will help you grow two more city sizes before having any health concerns.

Her other trait, Spiritual, is handy because it permits you to swap civics and religions without going through anarchy. You might find yourself swapping civics and/or religions a lot, though not by your choice. In a cultural game, you will typically suffer a "-2 Our Close Boarders spark tensions" with your immediate neighbours. To counter this, switch to whichever religion they have chosen (or, better yet, spread your own to them before they adopt a religion.) If your stronger neighbour adopts Hinduism, you should do the same. Being Spiritual here helps you not lose out on production, commerce, tech learning, etc, for when you need to swap religions. Another way to please your neighbours is when they ask you to adopt a civic, just do it! In 5-10 turns you can swap back, with no anarchy. This grants you a +2 bonus...well a +1 by adopting their favourite civic, but you also avoid the -1 you refused to adopt our favourite civic. You won't get a +5 you adopted our favourite civic, because you didn't stay there, but that's okay. +2 here, +1 there, +1 from gifting them things, and +2-4 from religion, should be enough to keep them off your back long enough for you to win.

Good luck to you, AnyKeyz, and have fun with a peaceful victory. :)
 
Cathedrals are a bit weird. I think I have them figured out, but I could be wrong. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. To build the first Hindu Cathedral, you need to have built 3 Hindu Temples. To build your 2nd Hindu Cathedral, you need to have built 4 Hindu Temples . Etc. This is why a Spiritual leader is superior to a creative leader when it comes to winning a cultural victory. Each religion you have nets you 1 culture per turn. If you can grab 3 religions, and spread the religions to all cities in your empire, that's 3 culture per turn before multipliers (as opposed to 2 culture per turn before multipliers with Creative.)





It depends on the map size. Like for small 3, for medium 4... then the jump to the next one is greater... I know on some setting I needed 6 temples, so I think perhaps you need twice the number, or 50% more, of temples for the 2nd cathedral.

Which could perhaps make it not worth it going past the first set of cathedrals... since a larger amount of cities (past a point) is detrimental to a cultural victory.

Yes, and the culture slider is good for happiness...but I would really hope you'd have enough temples to have no problem with that ;p Was giving my advice in the context of trying to get a cultural victory. And I personally think the great merchant may be completely inefficient for your goals.

The reason being, (hopefully) you should be getting one, at the earliest, late medieval age or perhaps from economy. At that point Golden Age has a much more profound effect than +1 food and +6 gold, because so many very useful techs are on the horizon(and buildings to build, Golden Age is good going into education to build universities and hurry to liberalism). And really, with a cultural victory, at that point you are sort of nearing the end of the game. Golden age would be better imo, or perhaps teching. But there may be circumstances where the merchant super specialist would work out.
 
And Kesshi pointed out one of the good specific strategies. Sistine Chapel can be extremely powerful depending on your setup(although it is probably the best culture producing wonders, regardless). And I just thought again of how you receive a great artist from music, so perhaps it is indisputably the correct choice to rush the culture side path before getting the other essential, mainline techs.
 
Wow, thanks for the infos !
I never thought I would like such detailed informations
 
1) You get flat culture rates. Monuments give you +1 culture, Libraries give you +3 culture, etc.* Specialists give you culture (which can be boosted by building a wonder.)

the rate a building gives is flat, but buildings that are around long enough double in culture eventually. that only counts for stuff you build early early, i forget the cutoff date. generally only monuments, early wonders, some of your libraries/temples end up beat the cut-off. it's spiffy when it happens with stonehenge for example and confuses people sometimes.

Cathedrals are a bit weird. I think I have them figured out, but I could be wrong. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. To build the first Hindu Cathedral, you need to have built 3 Hindu Temples. To build your 2nd Hindu Cathedral, you need to have built 4 Hindu Temples.

to build a second cathedral of X religion, you need to have (insert # of temples for map size) temples that aren't already counted for the first cath you made. so on a standard map, you need a total of 6 to build 2 caths. that's why the magic number of total cities is 9 on a standard map.

Her other trait, Spiritual, is handy because it permits you to swap civics and religions without going through anarchy. You might find yourself swapping civics and/or religions a lot, though not by your choice. In a cultural game, you will typically suffer a "-2 Our Close Boarders spark tensions" with your immediate neighbours. To counter this, switch to whichever religion they have chosen (or, better yet, spread your own to them before they adopt a religion.) If your stronger neighbour adopts Hinduism, you should do the same. Being Spiritual here helps you not lose out on production, commerce, tech learning, etc, for when you need to swap religions. Another way to please your neighbours is when they ask you to adopt a civic, just do it! In 5-10 turns you can swap back, with no anarchy. This grants you a +2 bonus...well a +1 by adopting their favourite civic, but you also avoid the -1 you refused to adopt our favourite civic. You won't get a +5 you adopted our favourite civic, because you didn't stay there, but that's okay. +2 here, +1 there, +1 from gifting them things, and +2-4 from religion, [KMad's addition: +fair/forthfair trading and +2 years of resources] should be enough to keep them off your back long enough for you to win.

that is FAR AND AWAY the biggest reason that Spiritual is my favorite trait for cultural games. the cheap temples are nice but even if those went away i'd still pick it. i watch diplomacy very carefully in cultural because i'm weak on military techs and units ... i cannot count the number of times i've been offered gunpowder, chemistry pre-BtS when it was major military tech, or rifling as "perhaps this might be of use to you" freebies, i stay that far behind. the freedom to make nicey-nice with folks, to manipulate their relationships with each other using wise civics/religion if i need them to like each other more so i can trade for health resources without worst enemy penalties, swaps from caste system to slavery at times, it just really suits my style.

mileages vary of course, but so many people look at the buildings and don't really take advantage of that diplomatic freedom. it can be huge! it can be educational in improving that aspect of your game; it certainly was for me, that and OCC games aiming for diplomatic victory. now diplomacy is the area of the game i am best at by far, the only area i have strong confidence in my abilities. imo manipulating diplomacy improves your gameplay no matter what your goal. even if you intend to wipe everybody else off the face of the earth, it can let you pick the timing of who you fight win, and lessen the chance of a backstab while your troops are off elsewhere. end of sales plug and non-cultural sidetrack.
 
the rate a building gives is flat, but buildings that are around long enough double in culture eventually. that only counts for stuff you build early early, i forget the cutoff date.

1000 years on normal speed (note - it's calculated in years, not turns).



If you are interested in learning about culture, be sure to read
RB-19 Culture victory without touching the slider.
RB-29d Cultural Extermination (a conquest! victory without ever leaving home).
 
The culture slider is an effective method for reducing war weariness. Build a theatre and colosseum in all your large cities, and 20% culture is +5 happy. This doesn't just keep your large cities happy, but also prevents them from starving. Losing a couple worked tiles to unhappiness isn't so bad, but losing a couple population from starvation can be a huge loss. If WW is high enough, 20% on the culture slider can even increase the science and gold due to more tiles worked.

The culture slider isn't often used to raise happy cap in peace time, but it is a viable option, especially for a creative leader (cheap theatres and colosseums). Even more so for Justinian because his hippodrome UB gives 1 happy for every 5% on the slider.

Using the culture slider for happiness is more effective (actually less costly) if you get most of your science from specialists.
 
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