Curious - why no Sikhs in Civ4?

[Hersheleh]

So I'm a senior in high school taking a world religions class. Our text is written by this guy who is apparently the "ambassador to religions everywhere" this guy is Huston Smith. So his text "world religions" includes a description of the most widely known historical religions. It contains, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, and the Primal Religions. These are all the religions in Civ IV well except for the primal religions but technically the paganism civic sort of is that.

Also as a Jew I find it very strange that many of you see Judaism as some kind of exception. Not only did Judaism spawn the other two Abrahamic religions, it has endured throughout history despite constant persecution. You cannot deny it's place in history. I think it has had a much larger impact on world history than Sikhism at least in my opinion. Also considering my secular beliefs the thing that separates Judaism is that it is both a religion and a culture. So one can be of Jewish decent but not study the Torah and still be considered Jewish. Regardless I think that their choice of religions was based on the American view of religions. The Religions they chose are those most commonly known in The United States. This is just a guess but I think they probably read some Huston Smith as well.

 

[aragami_frog]

There are a ton of religions and I don't know if Sikhs is the biggest of the remaining.

There's the Harikrishnas ( I believe they are one), the Turkmenbashis (Mostly in Turkmenistan and the president of Turkmenistain is also covenently also their god), There's animast, There's also those who worship their ancestors. To just name an few

Although with Muslim faith isn't the only religion in the middle east. There's the Turkmenbashis, ancestroyer worshipers, Christans and a few other small mostly unheard of relgions in the west.

 

[RobEllin]

...
Also as a Jew I find it very strange that many of you see Judaism as some kind of exception. ....

I don't think the posters meant it in this way, they say its an exception for the EXACT reasons you have given. Within the context of the points they made, it is in the game, not because of the number of people that follow it today or for the past thousands of years, but because of its long history and influence on the 2 biggest religions today (see the points you have made).

Um.. I think!!

 

[XGustaX]

They are also missing Norse Gods, Egyptian Gods, and Greek Gods....

 

[BeyondCivilized]

They are also missing Norse Gods, Egyptian Gods, and Greek Gods....

Age of Mythology

 

[Antilogic]

They are also missing Norse Gods, Egyptian Gods, and Greek Gods....

...which are all unique to a very specific group of people on a relatively scale, with the possible exception of the Hellenic pantheon (due to Alexander and due to the Romans adopting a very similar pantheon). Unfortunately, not even the Greeks took that seriously and instead looked to mystery cults for spiritual guidance.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

These greek, egyptian, and norse gods are represented in the "Paganism" civic.

 

[CyberChrist]

These greek, egyptian, and norse gods are represented in the "Paganism" civic.

A pretty weak representation though - imho anyway.

However, there are a few modders out there trying to enchance this side of cIV, so anyone that are interested in a more detailed religious representation in their games might want to check out the Eusebius World Religions mod and the 43 Religions project - to name but 2 dealing with the religion issue.

 

[Silver Marmot]

I think religions are fine the way they are. As far as Judaism goes, it is an extremely influential religion and, as this game is marketed towards countries where it is a well-known religion, it would have simply been absurd to omit it in favor of something else.

 

[jessiecat]

I think religions are fine the way they are. As far as Judaism goes, it is an extremely influential religion and, as this game is marketed towards countries where it is a well-known religion, it would have simply been absurd to omit it in favor of something else.

This thread started off asking about the Sikhs. Sorted of drifted since then.
I'd have included them, maybe as a mid-game thing to boost military skills
or something like a small wonder which gives a new tech or training level.

 

[CyberChrist]

This thread started off asking about the Sikhs. Sorted of drifted since then.
I'd have included them, maybe as a mid-game thing to boost military skills
or something like a small wonder which gives a new tech or training level.

See the links in my post a few posts up. Eusebius' mod does exactly this (among other).

 

[aragami_frog]

I think religions are fine the way they are. As far as Judaism goes, it is an extremely influential religion and, as this game is marketed towards countries where it is a well-known religion, it would have simply been absurd to omit it in favor of something else.

I think if it was omitted I think the main thing to occur is questions of possible racism. If they were wellfounded or not (since they weren't omitted) I wouldn't be able to judge though.

 

[Hersheleh]

I think if it was omitted I think the main thing to occur is questions of possible racism. If they were wellfounded or not (since they weren't omitted) I wouldn't be able to judge though.

You mean Antisemitism

 

[Saim]

Sikhism really hasn't gone much beyond India.

Replace India with "the Punjab province of India and Pakistan".

Although 0.7% of people in the United Kingdom are Sikh, even more than Hindus!

 

[Elras]

How about just 'The Punjab'?

The land of the five rivers...*sigh*...I feel a Gurdas Mann song coming on..

..Apna Punjab Hove...

 

[vicawoo]

About that battle, it calls them martyrs, but that implies persecution, where it sounds like they were at the wrong place during a war. Especially if the afghans were looking for them to surrender. Semantic pickiness, I know.

Confucianism permeates east asia, although i think japan might be different. Taoism seems to have had more of cultural (literary and artistic) influence than religious.

 

[Saim]

About that battle, it calls them martyrs, but that implies persecution, where it sounds like they were at the wrong place during a war. Especially if the afghans were looking for them to surrender. Semantic pickiness, I know.

Confucianism permeates east asia, although i think japan might be different. Taoism seems to have had more of cultural (literary and artistic) influence than religious.

Taoism was the state religion of China multiple times, and is currently the second biggest religion in China (either 100 million or 10 million...). It also spread to Vietnam, Korea and Japan, although it has been mostly supplanted by Buddhism now.

 

[vicawoo]

Taoism was the state religion of China multiple times, and is currently the second biggest religion in China (either 100 million or 10 million...). It also spread to Vietnam, Korea and Japan, although it has been mostly supplanted by Buddhism now.

Hmmm, it may have spread, but culturally, I can't really say korea or japan or vietnam are particularly taoist countries, while they are confucian. And incorporating the symbols in itself doesn't mean much.

 

[Jas]

See the links in my post a few posts up. Eusebius' mod does exactly this (among other).

Good mod that

 

[Gooblah]

Hmmm.
For a Sikh Civ, I'm thinking:
UU: Nihang Warrior (Nihang Swordsman? Just Nihang?)
-Replaces Maceman (or Pikeman)
-1-2 First Strikes
-Starts with City Raider I (or some other promotion)
UB: Gurdwara
-Replaces....dunno. More like a religious building. Should replace Temple, but a Christian Gurdwara? Maybe it replaces the Monument? That makes the most sense (aside from Temple)
-+2 happiness
-+2 culture
-third effect: well, again, dunno; I'm Hindu, not Sikh, and most of the Sikh kids I know I don't talk to very much, so...