cz4: RaR ()==[];,;,;,;,;,;> The Hitlist

[AntiTwelve]

Got Inca and Sioux mixed up, IND is another trait that help us get far. I'm hoping to pull in some nice worker stacks soon through Inti warrior enslavement (on barbs ) so we can start getting our core maxed ASAP.

By democracy I'm hoping you mean the early democracy and not egalitarianism (spl.?), however I find that it might be better in our variant to head towards monarchy. I'll go over the tech tree again to see where the two techs lie and how long it takes to get them.

 

[Greebley]

I don't think there is any chance of us not wanting to switch to monarchy right away in this game. Stop growth in over a dozen towns just to save 1 pop on a few remaining settlers? That would be a big lose. I can see it when you are trading with the AI and heading straight for Dyn when half your towns won't benefit anyway. In this game with all towns stuck at size 2 or 1 until you get it and us getting Dyn late? The fact that we don't have it will be hurting us by then.

[Edit: Monarchy is gotten with Dyn. You have to get it before any other Govt. Are you talking about some other form of Monarchy?]

 

[Macdandee]

Preturn - set research to ritualism (in 6) which will lead to the first available dead end tech (slavery). Every thing looks good, except we are mighty shield poor.

T0(1750)-start a little cautious scouting with the Quito garrison.
T1(1725)-Cuzco archer--worker housing (due in 8). This will set back the settler build by 5 turns, but will improve the only decent shield producer we have. Figure we will be building our military out of here for the vet status.
Galley spots another coastline to the west. Lux to 0%.
T2(1700)-Galley crosses to the other coast.
T3(1675)-Galley spots a light blue border. Barb spotted, move the archer out of Cuzco (lux to 10%).
T3(1650)-Galley meets the Americans! He is up Cultivation, Domestication, Pottery, Scrape Mining, and Ritualism. My first thought is to go for Domestication, but we will be able to research that as our next dead end line. Trade Alphabet+Boat Building+93g for Cultivation+Ritualism (saves us 2 turns). Looked at holding on to Boat Building, but he would not give us Cultivation for Alpha and all of our gold. Also figured that the 30 gold was worth the two turns of research considering the twister. Research to Slavery (in 9). War is declared. Incense spotted in the capitals area.
T4(1625)-Galley continues around the American island looking for friends.
T7(1575)-Archer kills the Barb, wooot--free worker. He will head for Cuzco to hook up the incense.
T9(1525)-Finish the worker housing, start an eagle warrior (vetoable) for escort. Half the cost of an archer for the loss of the defensive bombard. Galley spots another island to the west of the American island.
T10(1500)-Galley moves to new island, no borders spotted.

Post turn-playing turns for a sg has a much different feel than playing a solo game! Thinking about why I make the game decisions and writing up justifications about them adds a strange feel.

The Save

 

[Greebley]

I wish you hadn't changed away from domestication. We had already put some turns into getting it and it also leads to an optional tech right away (Wheel) and so it is an equally good or better candidate as it also gives half of another optional tech. Additionally it is a tech we really want (a town with pigs could be big food) and greatly speed production. Ah well. Done is done. I am guessing you didn't notice wheel? I should have mentioned my reasons for going it I guess.

I think I would build 2 Eagle Warrior and then a Hardy clan in the capitol.

Here is where I think we should place the next few towns. I would start roads toward these spots if we can. Remember we don't need to road much around any city other than possibly Quito as our towns will be small for a while.

I assume the worker is going for the incense? Everyone know that it is not a lux, but a strategic resource? As such it actually won't be useful right away, so I personally would have waited on building the road to it. Not that it hurts anything to hook it up, I would have favored roads to the future city sights first.

Red town is on the river and grabs any BG that the capitol doesn't get. I would for that location next.

Next I would go Yellow, Blue up the coast to get the other elephant for the food bonus.

The Grey is an eventual town, but I think it should be one of the last. The reason is that it doesn't supress barbarians at all. I would rather place the ones that do first.

Note that barbarians cannot form within the visual radius of military units, so it is sometimes worthwhile to place them in areas to keep new huts from forming in them. For example, the tundra to the south which will be late to be settled will probably have fortified units later on. To keep every square visible.

When Barbarian horses appear, I suggest putting two units with settlers as it is less likely that two horses will attack than one (you then need to retreat or settle right away - Settling right away in less optimal places is a better choice than getting killed. We can always have the town move later.

Note that we do not need temple/shrines right away as our cities will stay small. We can expand borders with Monuments (or even sacrificing? though I haven't ever tried this).

I see you didn't trade away Sailing. I definitely agree with that decision as it would have given the Americans the ability to get to us.

After Slave, I would go for Domestication and then Wheel. Speed 2 units will be very nice to have. Weaving after that.

[Edit: I looked up League of Nations and still think the chances of a Diplo loss to the AI is a tiny fraction of a percent if not zero in this game. Good to know about its existance though.]

 

[Macdandee]

I agree with you on the comparative value of the domestication path rather than the ritualism, guess I misunderstood Cizzlewalk. He mentioned going for the quickest techs, I think I took it too literally and thought I had to go for ritualism. Went back and checked though, there was no research time in on domestication in 1750, so hopefully it's not too bad a gaff. I did forget about the incense though, not quite the good news that I thought it was.

 

[Keiji]

Got it. Will probably play tomorrow.

 

[Greebley]

Ah, you were taking number of turns to get a tech into account? I didn't consider that - I was counting in "techs" not turns.

Glad we didn't lose any turns. I must have been mistaken; I thought I got the prevous tech earlier. In that case, the switch is fine - it won't slow research (I do want to go for Domestication next though)

 

[AntiTwelve]

@Macdandee Good first turns, but I'm still questioning your galley decision, but I guess it was no or never. Also, I did mean turn wise in finding the quickest tech, but tech paths are also important to consider. Right now, we'll just stay the path.'

@Greebley hmm, I could've sworn Dynasticism gives despotis... oh, changed. So monarchy is first, no big deal. Plus, I just like the idea of getting dynasticism later because it does ruin the infrastructure process of the AI, they focus on settler and have no shields to make adequate builds. Now when I said dead last, I guess I was fooling myself (thought we were AGR back then ) and that that cow in Cuzco can do a lot for us. I simply figured it was going to help get our CORE first, not our outer rings.

To Keiji, its up to up to build those Eagle Warriors, remember, the barbarians will NOT leave their lands since they are on sedantary. If you're afraid of an American landing, then by all means build up a little militia in our capitol before expanding. Hmm, I guess I should look at the save and see what the advisor says about them and how big they empire is...

 

[Keiji]

Pre-flight check:
Everything seems ok. I'm not very worried about the Americans yet, but I'll
still build two Eagle Warriors to be safe and for escort tasks.

1475 BC (1)
Cuzco, Eagle Warrior -> Eagle Warrior
1450 BC (2)
Slavery comes in -> Domestication in 9
Macchu Picchu, Hardy Clan -> Trireme
Luxury to 20 percent to prevent Quito from rioting.
1425 BC (3)
Cuzco Eagle Warrior -> Hardy Clan
Didn't realize crossing sea requires 2 movement points, our galley end at sea.
1400 BC (4)
Our galley sinks . Remind not to make that mistake again.
Worker starts roading the incense.
1375 BC (5)
Switch Macchu Picchu to galley to replace our old one ASAP.
1350 BC (6)
Quito, Monument -> Clan
Chan Chan founded -> Monument
1325 BC (7)
Nothing much
1300 BC (8)
Nothing much
1275 BC (9)
Domestication comes in -> wheel in 6
No new resources in sight .
1250 BC (10)
Quito riots! Sorry guys. Raising luxury enough puts us in
minus so I hire an entertainer :\.

Man, this mod sure is different from regular Civilization. Just about everything that could be changed has been changed. This'll take some getting used to.

 

[Greebley]

Ya, it is definitely a very different game. Things like the galley sinking are unavoidable. I do encourage everyone to look at the techs we have gained since your last turn in the Civopedia.

One thing I had troubles adjusting to when I played DyP for the first time was the fact that units move only two along roads. You get so used to movement three that it is easy in a war to think a unit will make it to a given location, but be wrong. Watch out for this as it is annoying as anything to have your cannon stop one square from a city and you have to scramble to protect it as it is adjacent to an enemy.

Also don't trust your knowledge of Lux vs Resources. Those have changed. I believe even gold is a resource.

One other thing. Keep an eye on America's tech. When they get Sailing I think it is, we have to be careful not to leave coastal cities unprotected (whatever gives them galleys).

 

[Macdandee]

@Cizzlewalk - I saw three options with the galley:
1) Back away once I saw the border to avoid meeting anyone for now.
2) Attempt to skirt the area and try to meet a different nation to put on top of the hit-list.
3) Meet the Americans and then continue our exploration, looking for friends.

I went with #3 hoping for tech(s) that would give us some immediate help with our production by exposing resources. Just curious about the approach you would have taken and why.

@Greebley - Where can I find your dot map?

I'm still trying to come up to speed here, and I appreciate your patience with the new guy.

 

[Knappagh1]

Got it.

Will play in a bit. Any ideas, pointers for the game? What techs are we going for?

Im not playing right away, so i will check back before i play to see a game plan (if any)

@macdandee, i think greebley said he hadn't got time to do a dot map, but if anyone would to try, it would appreciated

 

[Greebley]

Great! I think I forgot to attach it.

Keiji, placed the city on my first priority red dot though so we were in agreement.

The second dot I put either E or NE of the upper eagle scout in Keiji's picture (I think it was NE) on the eastern coast and the last near the elephant. The idea was to space out two cities on the Eastern coast.

I am at work but will attach it when I get home.

(The grey dot was in the plains NEmost above our capitol).

Sorry about that.

[Edit: Looking at the Keiji's picture I really do think it was NE. E seems too close.

 

[Knappagh1]

My Turns.

Pre Turn. Everything looking good (i think). Entertainer is hired in Quito. Roit will end next turn. Press Enter

Turn 1 1225 BC
Worker at Quito n for more road works.
zzz

Turn 2 1200 BC
Machu P Galley >> Galley (due in 10); Galley moves south, Finds Island (South Island); Qiuto worker roadworks; barb worker west for road works.

Turn 3 1175 BC
Galley explores South Island

Turn 4 1150 BC
Cuzco Hardy Clan >> Tribal Guard (mp); H/C heads north to NE of Eagle Warrior; Galley Explores more.

Turn 5 1125 BC
Discover Wheel, Start Weaving (next available Dead End Tech + Silks and Cotten); galley, more exploring; Quito worker NE to connect to Chan Chan.

Turn 6 1100 BC
Chan Chan >> monument >> Hardy Clan (due in 30, can be changed); Barb spotted West of Quito

Turn 7 1075 BC
Galley explores more of South Island. Spies more coast to the east; Hardy Clan moves into position.

Turn 8 1050 BC
Cuzco >>Tribal Guard >>Monument(Due in 4); Send Cuzco Eagle Warrior to chan chan as mp; Pacara founded. Monument started.

Was going to build Hardy Clan in Cuzco but at current production it was due in 12 with growth in 16. With monument due in 4, the Hardy Clan should be ready on growth if built after monument.

Turn 9 1025 BC
Galley starts east to new island;

Turn 10 1000 BC
Discover weaving, start on pottery;

We have 2 silks West of Chan Chan. Will capture 1 when chan chan expands (5 turns).

For Next Player:
No Mp in Pacara yet but there is an Eagle Warrior SW of it.
Fermantation is next up after Pottery as closest dead end tech.
Worker in chan chan to head to silks.

The Save and Our Lands

 

[Greebley]

Those sheep hills are valuable. They can be mined to be 2 food and 3 shields in Chiefdom which will become 3 food and 4 shields in Monarchy.

I think I would change the location of the next town to the hill just below the lake (so I am not going to post the old dot map which would be out of date). We can then build a monument and bring the sheep into our borders.
The hill town will get 4 shields (minus corruption) at size 1 in Chiefdom once the border expands. It can build something nice. It will eventually be one of our better shield towns.

Note that the wool/sheep are a Luxury as well.

[Edit:
I think our dead-end techs we will be heading for are Fermentation, Poetry, and then either Riding (more few turn techs) or Monasticism (fewer long turn techs).

Edit2: What do you all think of switching the galley to Tireme or War galley? We can sink American galleys before they get to us and drop troops. Amercians are now a danger BTW - they have galley tech.

 

[Knappagh1]

I would agree with the war galley, but i choose galley (quicker build) for more exploration since i feel we need to make more friends (help us with the tech race). But with the Americians having the galley tech, this might be a good switch.

Also, i forgot to mention in my notes that Americia has started the hanging gardens . It was about turn 5/6 when it came up. I just remembered after running through my notes again.

 

[Macdandee]

I'm with you on the war galley. It seems to me that there was only one area where the crossing could be made safely, so setting up a quasi-blockade should be possible. It's going to take quite a while to get that build though (50shield?), do we want to get another galley for exploration built first?

I'm with you on the city location too, love getting cities on the hills in RaR.

 

[Greebley]

Ya, we need to meet another civ, so I agree. Galley, then war galley seems to make the most sense.

 

[AntiTwelve]

@Macdandee I would have waited to explore further and meet a civ much further away, having America as an ally would have been nice as a buffer between us and a farther away enemy. Plus, America is almost always a dominant force in every game I play (and notice on SGs). However, we did need techs... but not that bad. Still it wasn't a bad choice, just a different approach.

@Team I agree with Greebley on taking that spot ASAP, sheep are spectacular (so are bananas) and that will easily be an uber strong hold. Also, this game's corruption level is different... VERY different. You can in fact put a FP on the other side of the island and w/ proper buildings and gov can have almost NO corruption... IT IS INSANE the way your lands can be such a huge production center w/ only minimal maintenance. IMO, we should work on settlers w/ few to no excorts to take up the land immidiately. You never know who will show up off the coast of our lands. Plus, don't forget barbs can't move around due to them being sedantary! If America does chose to attack us, they will focus for our coastal towns first (that are guarded) but will Insta-Attack anything w/ no units in it on the coast too. Keep this in mind when founding new cities.

@Gogf Your turn homeslice.

 

[Greebley]

No response from Gogf in 3 days. I feel we should skip/swap him (depending on whether he has responded before the next player has finished) if he doesn't reply today. I notice he requested being at the back; he may still be busy.

Ya out there Gogf?