D&D mod: tjedge1-Mystara

[tjedge1]

And the extra movement takes so getting used to. Seems to make the AI more aggresive and sneaky sometimes. I know the few chances I've hadto actually play instead of work on it, I've been surprise attacked by the AI and once got wiped out pretty quickly.

As far as releasing the mod. I want to do that early April, but I can't promise that. Every time I set a deadline, RL issues ormod issues come up and cause major delays. So at the moment it is safe to say the mod is 90% complete. Well it will be once I get the next patch up.

@the Testers: The patch is a major one.

EDIT: I'm not going to try and say D&D is better than the WH mod. It will for sure be different than any other fantasy mod is the aspect of gameplay. I focused mostly on variety with enough gameplay to allow the AI to keep up and offer a challenge. That was my original goal anyway.

 

[Steel General]

I don't think it fair to compare the two, I've played both mods an I like them both very much. WarHammer & D&D are two highly diverse genre's each with their own merits (and foibles). The Mystara mod is highly different from WH, and I believe it conveys a completely different 'feel' than the other.

Just my opinion.

 

[GRM7584]

Well it is rather silly to compare mods on the whole; what was initially brought up was civ-to-civ diversity, which I think it is safe to say Mystara has more of. The two are certainly entirely different mods with entirely different play atmospheres and each with their ups and downs, but in terms of variety in available units, wonders, and the like, Mystara is much more geared towards a unique play experience for individual civs than WH, in my opinion.

 

[egroen]

Well, I am looking forward to playing this mod (and the Lord of the Mods). I love the WH mod, but have never played WH tabletop... I think I can get into a D&D World (or Tolkien) a whole lot more.

Would anyone care to explain how you are trying to create a "better" AI? I read something about an extra move?

This idea of an AI sneak-attacking me is intriguing... I have not been playing Civ III for long, but it would be nice to get a challenge from the AI without having to give "him" uber-production powers. This is why I rarely play above Monarch, and usually quit well before a third age (after I know I have the game won). I also hate getting bogged down in micro-management. It's kinda annoying, because I never have the patience to play long enough to experience any end-game units.

 

[tjedge1]

The AI is not really better, it's just that the AI always builds all available small wonders. There are over 100 small wonders that produce units some with abilities that the AI doesn't normally use. The extra movement that every unit has allows for the ability to ignore the movement cost of certain terrains (IE: elves and forests) but has a side effect which makes the AI sneeky. Apparently it like to build up it's forces and then attack suddenly without an apparent reason other than to catch you off guard. With etra movement, this tactic is harder to defend against now.

 

[egroen]

That's a good idea. Now that I have played the WH mod more, I am absolutely in love with not allowing workers to mine outside of hills and mountains. This saves up SO much time and eliminates a lot of the micro-management. It also makes city placement all the more important as you strive to have those resources. All this equals more enjoyment. I would love to see the same thing done with irrigation, like maybe you can only irrigate the "brown" tiles. What has been your take on this?

While this does take away from the "industrial" trait, it's not so bad because some of the other traits are downplayed too - like religion (you're not able to switch governemnts often).

Oh, and how have you handled the dwarf issue. Can they build in moutains, move in mountains... hopefully they are not as "late-age" focused as WH. Any civ which does not get good until the final ages are working with a HUGE handicap.

EDIT: I took the time to read more of the thread (getting long, but still manageable). It sounds like dwarves are able to mine but not irrigate, elves can forest but not irrigate and so on.

 

[tjedge1]

That's true. I didn't want elves to chop down their forests so I removed that from them as well. Dwarves can mine only and tehy can travel in mountains, but not build cities there. That would create too much strength. They are not alone in the mountains either. Frosthaven (a kingdom of giants), Orcland and other civs have units that can cross mountains, so the dwarves cannot totally dominate in the mountains. The dwarves are not totally focused in the late age. In fact every civ is pretty balanced as well as they can be for all eras. Some are a little stronger, like Alphatia and Glantri which has a lot of mage building small wonders. The game is definatly a different experience than any mod I've played.

 

[egroen]

I am hoping by keeping this thread bumped up it will spurr you guys to complete it all the faster

I am really enjoying the fantasy themed mods... it just makes so much more of a satisfying game when each of the civs is SO unique. This is what intrigues me the most about your mod and why I have been enjoying the WH mod.

When you get to the initial release, how much will it include?

Scenarios?
Pre-placed cities and civ option?

I'd love to hear more about how the beta is going... some interesting stories and experiences? A civilopedia preview? Throw a bone or two!

 

[Steel General]

I'd love to hear more about how the beta is going... some interesting stories and experiences? A civilopedia preview? Throw a bone or two!

Well I am near the end of game (using Beta patch 14) playing as the True Elves. I am playing on a huge archipelago map with 10 opponents. I beleive it is around year 986 or so. Originally there were 3 other civs (Both dwarf civs & the Izondians) besides me on the 'island'. Now there is only me and the Duargor (Sp?) Dwarves. I survived well into the game without iron by building every unit producing wonder I could and generally being nice to the AI. I recently took a city that had iron from Zeaburg (they were weak). I just recently acquired Saltpeter & Coal from the Duargor and am in the process of building Musket Elves, Cavalry & a few artillery pieces. I am about to finish off the Gnome Factory and start building the "spaceship" parts.

I am also about to wipe out the Malpheggi, they are weak and have another iron source.

Have immensely enjoyed playing this, and looking forward to finishing it so I can load Beta Patch 15 and try another game.

 

[tjedge1]

Next week I'll be creating a huge preview setup on Evo-games and then a new preview thread on this forum with pictures of all kinds of things. So no worries. This mod is moving all fast as I can get to go. The initial release of the mod will most likely be just the random map game like WH, but there are scenarios also being prepared for beta testing and then they will be released in scenario patches. Some may have additional or altered graphix than the random game. Arghis has worked on a Savage Coast and I hav eplanned a Wrath of the Immortals scenario. Also a world map (with and without preplaced cities) will be included soon after the random map is released.

 

[egroen]

Great... please post here when the preview is on Ev-games.

From reading this thread, it sounded like Arghis had the map completed (and it looks fantastic, by the way)?

Most of the unit producing wonders are civ-specific, right? I usually do not play higher than Monarch (so always lead in tech and hence beat the AI to all the civ-producing wonders. If they are civ-specific the AI will compete much better (I imagine).

 

[GRM7584]

All civ-specific, and 3-5 per civ. A scant few of them (for instance, dragon-producers) produce the same type of unit, but each is its own wonder. Also, I have yet to see any uber-stacks of more than 30 units or so thus far. Whether thats good or bad, thats up to individuals to decide I s'pose. Another interesting thing is that most unit lines have a very small ratio of improvement throughout the game...there are no 'common' late game units with 50/50/10 stats compared to early-game 2/2/2 units....a horde of ancient warriors will still overcome a modern armored swordsman, which is appropriate to the setting. Fantastic creatures such as golems, treants, and the like which are created by certain small wonders, however, can stand up to ancient or modern units. Its surprisingly balanced as far as I have seen, since those units are in limited quantities.

 

[Steel General]

The only 'uber-stacks' I have come across have been raider encampments that have been left alone for a long time. In the current game I am playing I've run accross about 3 stacks of at least 20 ogres.

 

[egroen]

Which difficulty are you playing on? The lag time because of SoDs is really annoying... I don't think not seeing them is a bad thing. As long as the AI is still competitive. Are you finding the AI *IS* building their civ-specific wonders and utilizing those units in a decent fashion?

 

[tjedge1]

That's a good question. I don't think the AI is utilizing all the small wonders due to requirements of improvements which the AI rarely builds many. That is something I may adjust before the mod's release. I haven't had time to really test the mod myself, I rely a lot on my testers.

 

[GRM7584]

The AI doesn't care for improvements, but then it never does; most of the small wonders don't require anything, and the AI at least builds those (and seems to do it pretty darned quickly at that). It hasn't been uncommon for me to fight an army which is nearly half or a majority auto-produced small wonder units, which isn't to say that those wonders produce units quickly, but that there are a lot of them and most AI civs manage to build them all in time to start popping out units as soon as they become available.

 

[tjedge1]

Thanks GRM7584 that is what I thought, still sounds like it's mostly working then. That is good then. Another incentive is that wonder produced units have no cost so you and the AI can just add them to your arsenal without having to figure out what to disband. There are a few unit producing wonders that will still require other small wonders, but any that require an improvement is going to have that requirement removed or changed. Especially the magic schools.

 

[Silica_Pathways]

Thanks GRM7584 that is what I thought, still sounds like it's mostly working then. That is good then. Another incentive is that wonder produced units have no cost so you and the AI can just add them to your arsenal without having to figure out what to disband. There are a few unit producing wonders that will still require other small wonders, but any that require an improvement is going to have that requirement removed or changed. Especially the magic schools.

Too few requirements means less interesting game for multiplayer Will there be a separate multiplayer version ?

 

[tjedge1]

I can make a version for multiplayer. That wouldn't be hard to increase the requirements for any of the wonders. I'll throw that in with my other scenario plans.

 

[egroen]

Any updates??? Are we nearing completeion?