Damn barbarians!!

[ExpiredReign]

I'm finding a hard time against barbarians in the first few turns.

It's not a problem with the spawn rate or the healing in camp or even the placement, it's the damn insane strength they have when the axmen or horseman come calling at your door or when you meet them in the wild.

As it stands now an axman or a horseman can just stand toe-to-toe with any early unit up to a swordsman or pikeman which, IMHO, just is too much. The horsemen also can ride in from nowhere and do some serious damage to anything you have, including spearmen which again, IMO, should have some anti-mounted capabilities, like pikemen.

I know the tech rate of them is geared off the tech rate of the major AI players, at least I'm pretty sure it is, but can we add in some resource management like no horsemen if there are no horse resources within x tiles of the spawning camp? Maybe even have the number dependent on the number of horses in said resource?

 

[Zanteogo]

You can always turn them off.

 

[Gamewizard]

I would suggest building a couple more units and moving the authority policy tree up in priority.

 

[ExpiredReign]

Well, yes I could do those things but does that truly address the issue here? Barbarians shouldn't be able access resources or new tech that the player can't yet get to.

 

[Gazebo]

Barbs were almost pointless in BNW. CBP makes them a real threat. It takes some getting used to, but having border guard spearmen takes out a lot of their bite.

G

 

[ExpiredReign]

Yeah I get the "protect your borders" aspect of the CBP, but that's not what I'm talking about.
Very early in the game, when your still exploring, it's not uncommon to come across advanced barb camps with axmen and horsemen, sometimes even composite bowmen. Even with barb XP cranked up so your scout troops might get 3 promotions they can still be overwhelmed and have no way to escape or heal. A scout hiding in forest with 3rd level defences should be able to at least stand his ground until help arrives when faced with a lone horsemen. As it is now even a spearmen with 3rd level promos gets wiped off them map. I don't anyone that can, early on, have 3 units all exploring together as an army which is what I lately need to just find out where everything is. Challenging yes, but also very frustrating.
The need for resources is something at least that could be looked at don't you think? Where do they get those horses?

 

[Protocol]

I personally feel like the Barbarians are in a great place at the moment. It takes away the need to play on Raging Barbarians. While I'm still only adjusting to the CBP, and playing on King instead of Diety, I don't feel like any change needs to be made.

 

[ExpiredReign]

Yeah, maybe I am just a little "rusty".

 

[Funak]

I do find certain annoyances with barbs producing horseman after horseman or swordsman after swordsman with no horses or iron in range.

 

[Bromar1]

Even with barb XP cranked up so your scout troops might get 3 promotions they can still be overwhelmed and have no way to escape or heal.

What settings do you change to let your scout reach level 3 from exploration?

 

[Bromar1]

I do find certain annoyances with barbs producing horseman after horseman or swordsman after swordsman with no horses or iron in range.

I don't think barbarians should have to function exactly like other civs. Sometimes they might represent just mindless bandits, other times (in my mind) they represent splinter groups from your own or other civilizations that have their own agenda. History is way too complex to put all possibilities of aggressors squarely under one nation. Barbarians are a kind of umbrella term for all the other conflicts that occur.

That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing barbarian frequency increasing slightly (maybe 10%). As it is now, they are relevant in the ancient and classical era, but quickly fall off after that. From the ren era onward, the only time I worry about barbarians is when they assault city states.

 

[Funak]

What settings do you change to let your scout reach level 3 from exploration?

This is sorta off-topic, but what are you people's thoughts on raising the experiencecap from barbs and scouting in general? I think the game would be more interesting letting units get level3 from barb/exploring but I'm not sure.

 

[Protocol]

It makes Raging Barbarians overpowered for the human player vs the AI. The AI doesn't put a value on Barbarians specifically for leveling, only for defending themselves.

 

[Gamewizard]

It makes Raging Barbarians overpowered for the human player vs the AI. The AI doesn't put a value on Barbarians specifically for leveling, only for defending themselves.

The AI is pretty good at barb hunting now, especially on the higher levels where they are able to produce lots of units.

 

[Llednar Twem]

One thing I've always had trouble with where barbarians are concerned is very early hand axes. Their melee combat strength just seems to high for a unit with access to a ranged attack. Your unit takes heavy damage attacking them, while they take no damage attacking you. Warriors get shredded and even if I get a lucky spearman upgrade from a ruin that's not always enough to handle them.

This is sorta off-topic, but what are you people's thoughts on raising the experiencecap from barbs and scouting in general? I think the game would be more interesting letting units get level 3 from barb/exploring but I'm not sure.

I already do this by editing the file anyway, so I would fully support the change. One less thing to do every time the mod updates. Also it seems fair considering how much more formidable barbs are in CBP compared to vanilla.

 

[ExpiredReign]

What settings do you change to let your scout reach level 3 from exploration?

Change the value in the Balance Changes/CoreDefines.sql

	-- Barbarian Experience Cap raised to 45
	UPDATE Defines
	SET Value = '60'
	WHERE Name = 'BARBARIAN_MAX_XP_VALUE';

This is sorta off-topic, but what are you people's thoughts on raising the experiencecap from barbs and scouting in general? I think the game would be more interesting letting units get level3 from barb/exploring but I'm not sure.

I just saw one user mention he sets this to "-1" which nullifies the maximum which I'm beginning to think isn't all that bad.
We can farm barbs for gold/science/faith/culture why not XP too!

One thing I've always had trouble with where barbarians are concerned is very early hand axes. Their melee combat strength just seems to high for a unit with access to a ranged attack. Your unit takes heavy damage attacking them, while they take no damage attacking you. Warriors get shredded and even if I get a lucky spearman upgrade from a ruin that's not always enough to handle them.

Another one of the changes that I'm trying to get used to. The axmen have an attack strength of 11 vs the spearman's 11 which means since the axmen get in first usually, there is no contest with a basic spearman, they just get wiped out.
They come into the game at Wheel but are on a par with player units that only arrive at Engineering or Mathmatics.

Not saying this is a big issue, just a curiosity to me.

 

[Funak]

I just saw one user mention he sets this to "-1" which nullifies the maximum which I'm beginning to think isn't all that bad.
We can farm barbs for gold/science/faith/culture why not XP too!

I've seen this done in let's plays but it just feels a bit too powerful for me, even if you don't farm barbs.

 

[Kolaris]

It does change things, but the AI will benefit from it to.

If you spawn enough Barbs.

 

[Gamewizard]

Change the value in the Balance Changes/CoreDefines.sql

	-- Barbarian Experience Cap raised to 45
	UPDATE Defines
	SET Value = '60'
	WHERE Name = 'BARBARIAN_MAX_XP_VALUE';

I just saw one user mention he sets this to "-1" which nullifies the maximum which I'm beginning to think isn't all that bad.
We can farm barbs for gold/science/faith/culture why not XP too!



Another one of the changes that I'm trying to get used to. The axmen have an attack strength of 11 vs the spearman's 11 which means since the axmen get in first usually, there is no contest with a basic spearman, they just get wiped out.
They come into the game at Wheel but are on a par with player units that only arrive at Engineering or Mathmatics.

Not saying this is a big issue, just a curiosity to me.

2 units per camp is more than enough to deal with barbs. I prefer 1 melee and 1 range. Fortify the melee and range attack a couple turns before coming in with the melee.

 

[ExpiredReign]

2 units per camp is more than enough to deal with barbs. I prefer 1 melee and 1 range. Fortify the melee and range attack a couple turns before coming in with the melee.

Totally agree, if I'm going after barbs then that's fine but what the purpose of my OP is all about is early on when your units are still low level and inexperienced to suddenly come upon some barbs whilst exploring, not defending home territory, it is a bit of an up hill battle when they are way more tougher.